Men platonic cuddling with men - brainstorming

edited September 2017 in General

So, yes there's a separate topic asking 'men, why won't you cuddle with other men', but this is a different spin on it. The topic focus is on men, but everyone is free to share their thoughts.

The gist per the other topic was...well there were a lot of different reasons. But some of it comes down to preference, and natural attraction. Sometimes bad experiences.

But here's my thoughts, I'm currently of the same opinion and feeling that my preference, at least for long term cuddling, is just with women. I can't say I feel comfortable much cuddling with men (intro hugs are fine), though on the same token I've never been much into contact sports, and my general experience is not receiving much physical affection in general.

AND YET, I noted a couple of guy's profiles on here, and some expressed their desire for cuddling, and how it helps lift them up and prevent depression, etc. Scientifically, there is proof that human interaction is important and has various benefits (oxytocin...and maybe like helping prevent illness, etc), and in general for myself, it helps me feel loved and connected. The point being, that even though it's not my preference, I can understand the need for cuddling, and that it is a pretty difficult thing to come by at times, and I personally feel like everyone should have a friend and feel loved.

That said, let's start a brainstorming session. I imagine most of us guys probably feel similarly unease with the idea. In spite of this, is there a cool, 'manly' or otherwise acceptable way that we could for longer periods, platonicly 'cuddle', or just physically interact, with each other / strangers? It's less socially common for sure, and bc of this men particularly have a hard time finding positive, platonic physical touch, at least that's been my experience.

A hug can be a good way to start, maybe an extended shoulder to shoulder hug, but more physical interaction between men will probably feel less weird if it's more brief. Keeping that all in mind, maybe there's like a sport or something that fits this bill?

Like playing catch and making it a point to high five each other on a regular basis throughout. That would have the added benefits of learning football skills, being kind of father/brother figurely, but then also get some positive and encouraging physical interaction. I'll brainstorm some more, but if you have ideas, or if you hear one and (as a guy) you're like "yeah, I'd be down or cool with that", feel free to add a comment.

Maybe like freeze tag and/or two hand touch football (but non-competitive and with no tackling in mind). Would other people in general (as adults) still be up for meeting for simple fun like freeze tag?

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Comments

  • I think male/male relationships are very important for men. I'm don't have a desire to cuddle with another man but I have more interaction with men than I do women. I have 15 employees, all males and my management peers are all males as well. The daily interactions with these men along with my other male friends and family members are very important. I am also part of a mans group where we can have unfiltered discussions about whatever we want. I'm always open to hanging out with the guys. I honestly feel that it's really only a man that can truly understand another man. As I said though, for cuddling or anything romantic etc That would have to be a female for me.

  • edited September 2017

    From this standpoint, while I say 'cuddling', perhaps a better term would be like 'physical touch/ interaction', which is perhaps a subset of cuddling like high fives, hugs, or the like. Not to say that other cuddling can't fall under platonic, but some interaction is either more platonic or just more commonly platonic, culturally.

    I agree that when it comes to anything romantic, it's female only for me. While male/male relationships are important, I don't know if the standard daily interactions and/or having unfiltered discussion is quite the same as meeting a physical interaction need for a man. It's a way to connect socially and feel connected, certainly, but I'm not sure it meets the same needs as those who are physical touch oriented. And perhaps men won't be able to fill that need completely for other men, but I'm curious if there aren't some platonic ways we could help each other out in that regard (which won't feel weird or unease-y).

  • What's wrong with and uneasy feelings? =) Maybe our avoidance isn't helping.

    Trying different forms of physical interaction is definitively a great idea. (As a matter of fact, I've had great experiences with playful wrestling, for example - I feel it does push some of the same buttons: playful, nonverbal, fun, being physical, touch, trust).

  • @Morpheus I love this so much :D Thank you.

  • That video is hilarious

  • [Deleted User]Sunflowerfield (deleted user)

    Perhaps men could get more comfortable in a group cuddle session with mixed genders, e.g. cuddling with a man on one side and a woman on the other! It might feel a bit less intimate and confronting if it's a group activity. It seems to me that some of the fear from men comes from the fear that the other guy might be sexually attracted to him, or might think he is sexually attracted to them.

  • Yes, it is easy to feel safe with the right group of people. I would love a mens' cuddle group, and have no reason to exclude anybody else - but if straight guys' cuddling is based on sexual attraction, wouldn't they just cluster around the women in an unguided group setting?

    Also - if male/male attraction or sexual arousal is a fear, is it so dark that one can't just talk about that? Have a laugh maybe (Morpheus :-D). As a someone who can feel sexually attracted to men (but can still cuddle platonically, we're all on the same page here, right?) I wouldn't feel good when my partner's comfort requires complete suppression of that possibility.

  • [Deleted User]Batboy (deleted user)
    edited September 2017

    Too new here to say much so I'm just SMH.

  • what about less intimate positions? like "T" formation? rest your head on another mans chest or tummy?

  • [Deleted User]jjjohnston (deleted user)

    I agree with @Morpheus, I definitely enjoy my male friendships, and I bro hug with some of them, but that's for a second. Cuddling with a dude just ain't gonna happen. Not even head on my or his chest, not in a group setting, not sitting in the backseat of a car. I'm confused why this is even a topic. I love that friends video, hilarious.

  • I should hope that if there's any place safe to discuss this subject, it's here. I think it behooves men to find ways to heal their touch starvation at least to a baseline stability that enables them to create normalized relationships with other human beings of any gender.

  • edited September 2017

    when I was a kid and even teen it wasn't uncommon to share a bed with my guy friends, if we were sleeping at each others home. Or when playing video games or watching a movie would be huddled together. But I wouldn't go so far as to call it cuddling, more so just sharing space. Plus since most of my friends in life as a child were girls and as an adult are women, in fact my best friend currently is a woman, love her dearly and we are family to each other. So maybe if I didn't have so many friends who weren't guys, I would have cuddled guys , I don't know. But I really don't have any interest in cuddling men for extended up close and personal sessions.

  • Sometimes I feel like there are people on here that want to push male/male cuddling when the bast majority of straight men don't want it. I agree with one of the posters above who said he is confused why this is even a topic but I also agree with another poster who says this should be a safe place to discuss it. The bottom line is that as straight men, we don't want to cuddle other men. I get plenty of man love from my bro hugs, high fives and fist bumps. The man love as I said above is very much needed but if I'm going to cuddle up and be intimate, it's not going to be with a man.

  • It's an organized effort to turn straight guys into gay cuddle fiends. Don't ya'll know that we get a toaster oven for every convert? [complete sarcasm, if this wasn't obvious]

    As in anything on the internet, that which doesn't interest you, then pass it by. Personally, I thought @DeltaPng's post was evocative, sensitive, and well written. Male/male snuggling isn't for everyone. But for some, it is.

  • [Deleted User]Batboy (deleted user)

    I get that most straight men won't cuddle with another man. I wouldn't try to convince a guy who didn't want to cuddle with me to do so. But that places your cuddle sessions with women somewhere to the right of "platonic." Once there is an implied sexual factor, it's not platonic.
    Just don't assume that a aman who would cuddle you wants sex with you, but when you cuddle with a woman, sex is the furthest thing from your mind. That's bs

  • edited September 2017

    I think people are getting hung up on the term cuddling, or it having to be one certain thing, look a certain way, or having to be extended, or it having to be related to romance.

    So okay, forget the term cuddling. Re-read my original post and the suggestions I give, which I presume most men would be ok with and aren't really all that 'cuddle'-y.

    Would you be ok with those suggestions, and like those suggestions, how do we 'share space' with other guys and physically interact in a platonic way more often?

    If you're fine with the level of physical interaction you have with people currently, cool, I'm glad your needs are being met. But there are a lot of others who are touch deprived and could benefit from platonic touch. The fact is cuddling (and platonic touch between men) is a rarity and it's not as common a thing, and men have a harder time with it since women cuddling each other is more common and socially acceptable, where if men want to be physically comforted, they're usually told/expected to 'toughen up' and 'deal with it'.

    No agenda, but I will say my goal with this is to try and make cuddling / platonic touch more commonplace, and tbh, to try and have some needs met and to find ways to help others have an easier time meeting their needs. This is an important discussion, as @sometimes mentions, it'd be helpful if all of us men could get to a better baseline level per physical touch needs, so that a lack of touch doesn't negatively impact ourselves or our relationships. And while the typical and/or ideal and most comfortable means may be free platonic cuddling with women, in lieu of that, there must be some ways us men could help each other with that as well.

    So, the topic is about brainstorming. Anyone have any brainstorm ideas or thoughts on ideas presented?


    @Gecko85 I've never tried the T position with anyone before. I think laying with my head on someone else's stomach might be workable, maybe if there was some good discussion to go with it.

    Pondering my experiences, some times when I'm hanging with some gal pals, I've asked if they could skootch their chair closer to mine, or sit next to me on like the couch. Even if we aren't touching, there's something nice about being in closer proximity than you would normal be. Now that I think of it, for a time when I was a kid, I recall sometimes being in the car with my younger sister, and on a long car ride we'd only have one pillow, so we'd put it between us to share it and lean our heads against that. We'd still be upright and seat buckled, and it wasn't always the most comfortable, but it was a nice snuggle kind of position to be in even though we weren't really touching each other.

    Between guys, the pillow thing may be too much, but maybe the general closer proximity thing or being willing to 'share space' more often is something to consider. Even if no physical contact is had, it is healing letting others know you are willing to be near them (seems to give a feeling of acceptance/approval). Personally I feel like it's hard to feel (relationally) close to someone if physically, they are/feel distant all the time.

  • [Deleted User]Sunflowerfield (deleted user)
    edited September 2017

    I think men's unwillingness to cuddle other men can be an issue, in that it creates a dependency on women - and a feeling of resentment and bitterness when women are a scarce resource. I think one of the great things about being a woman is that I don't feel as dependent on men for intimacy, affection and love. Of course I enjoy cuddling with some guys I am close to, but I enjoy knowing that I can hold hands and cuddle with some my female platonic friends without it being seen as a sexual/romantic thing. It means that if men were not available to cuddle, it wouldn't matter so much as I can get those needs met elsewhere.

    I think the only way to overcome this is for the few brave men who are willing to cuddle other men platonically to be role models, and to start normalising it by example. At least in our day and age there will always be lots of men who are beholden to cultural norms and won't feel comfortable cuddling with other guys, but if a few trailblazers can lead by example it may have a ripple effect that slowly leaks out to the broader society. This could be done by writing articles, creating videos, and demonstrating this in professional cuddling and cuddle party situations - straight men showing that hugs, cuddles and various forms of physical closeness with other men is no big deal.

    I think this also has the potential to help heal father wounds for many men, which is something that can never happen through relationships with women. Many men never got enough affection and touch from their fathers, and crave that later in life and try to meet it through touch with women. But it's just not the same.

    One of the things I admire about the guy I'm dating is that he's never been afraid of intimacy with other men, and has even tried kissing a guy one time. He said it was nice but it just didn't arouse him at all, so he realised he was straight. His lack of homophobia and security in his heterosexuality spoke volumes to me, and made him more attractive. I'm not saying I expect straight men to start kissing guys (and that's not really appropriate in this context), but the lack of fear about appearing gay or bisexual is something I greatly admire.

    This is also a great article:

    "Why don’t men friends touch? I’m not, of course, talking about intimacy between male lovers, but the kind of physical expressions of affection between male friends that was once common in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. According to Richard Godbeer’s eye-opening book, The Overflowing of Friendship, it was not unusual for platonic male friends to write tender letters to each other and to hold hands, cuddle, and even sleep in the same bed. Instead of such behavior “causing talk,” it was accepted by their wives (or girlfriends), families, and the wider community as a healthy, even necessary, aspect of their bond. Intimacy was understood to be beneficial to men’s well-being, and it was common for men to share both emotional and physical closeness. “Early Americans,” writes Godbeer, “exalted love between men as a personal, public, and spiritual good.”"

    When Did Touch Between Male Friends Become Taboo?

  • Wow, excellent and perceptive. Male touch camaraderie is normalized in many other countries and cultures. Also, one of the founders of Cuddlist.com holds a monthly Meetup cuddle party in New York City for those who identify as male specifically for this purpose

  • [Deleted User]Batboy (deleted user)

    Okay, i agree that the very word "cuddle" can be intimidating in male to male interaction. When I was in high school, there was a man who lived a few doors down the street from my mother, alone. I know he dated women, so I'll venture that he is straight. But he had some medical issues that made walking behind a lawn mower difficult for him, and he hired me to mow. One day he asked me if I would rub his back with some greasy junk that heated his muscles. He had finished a course of physical therapy, and now had nobody to apply the goo. Eventually, I was giving Jack a massage several times a week. It relaxed him, yes, once in a while, especially in the first week or two, I noticed that he got an erection. As a 17 tear old, then-closeted, gay boy, you can imagine what ran through my head seeing a big tent in his boxers. But nothing sexual ever happened. Eventually he didn't need the junk rubbed on his back, but he continued to pay me a few dollars when I was around for a massage. We talked about it when I was home to visit my mom a couple weeks ago and I stopped in to see Jack. He told me that he hadn't been touched much in his adult life, and that my willingness to give him kind touching experiences had changed his outlook on life for the better, and he was no longer a sad man. In my absence, he has now started getting a weekly massage at the park district gym. I'm certain he would never have "cuddled," but gained from the experience of touch.

  • [Deleted User]j_10 (deleted user)

    @batboy thanks for sharing that story

  • [Deleted User]chococuddles (deleted user)

    To me it's about energies. I'm sure everyone on here has frenemies in life or people they simply don't get along with. Your energies just don't match. You don't analyze it, it's just the way it is. Same goes with cuddling for me. I'm drawn to female energy whether it be male, female or trans. I've tried different things for over 20 years and I know what relaxes me and what causes anxiety. Worldwide studies are always interesting but at the end of the day my mind, body and soul guide me.

    I have no problems touching or hugging or comforting a masculine-energized friend if they are ill or injured or just plain down-in-the-dumps but as far as cuddling it's just not me and I'm 100% fine with that.

  • Here's an article I found related to men and our need for platonic touch, and the struggle related to finding it:
    http://upliftconnect.com/how-lack-touch-destroying-men/

  • Huh....I can relate to that article you linked delta. I am just going to write stuff as it comes to me without censoring anything. Consequently some of this may not make any sense.

    [quote]Accordingly, it has become every man’s job to prove they can be trusted, in each and every interaction, day by day and case by case. In part, because so many men have behaved poorly. And so, we prove our trustworthiness by foregoing physical touch completely in any context in which even the slightest doubt about our intentions might arise. Which, sadly, is pretty much every context we encounter.[/quote]

    This in particular spoke to me. I personally very much enjoy hugs and such but I never do it....pretty much ever. I never want to risk violating someone's space or being inappropriate so I avoid initiating contact in all cases.

    I also feel that men cannot be affectionate towards children either because they will be viewed as a pedophile. I know it's terrible, but I feel like that's the case.

    I suppose I feel that people will see any touch from men as sexually aggressive and since men are generally stronger than women and children it can make people feel unsafe. And because I never want to make people feel unsafe around me I end up being touch isolated.

    It might be because I hear about sexual harassment and such and I am trying to avoid being that type of person even if it's costing me a lot. It's a shame because I do feel like I am missing something from my life.

    But yeah, as to men touching men I don't have a problem with it. I do have to admit that I do feel a little safer, more open, and just more comfortable around women though. That probably makes me sexist against my own gender...but maybe it's simply because I feel that I could defend myself against an aggressive woman more easily than an aggressive man. Afterall, I've had a number of women I've never seen before start touching me sexually but I've never felt physically threatened by them......they were also way smaller than me though. If some woman who could beat the crap out of me started doing that I would likely feel different.

    I think I kinda got off topic though. I was just writing down my feelings after reading that article.

    On topic. Men should be more open to touch, especially with eachother. I say that even though I have I snuggle with women only checked off in my profile.....I simply feel like I can be myself more with women since men have this whole "I have to hide my feelings and such" thing going on. I hope to get over that....perhaps this post is a good start.

  • I'm wowed by the honesty and sensitivity shown by @Jasoncuddles and some others on this thread. One of the most frustrating aspects of this forum is the lack of awareness (and sometimes deliberate refusal to acknowledge, to the point of mocking) women's concerns about safety, safety, safety--for all the reasons @jasoncuddles mentioned. It's sad to me that the best men self-censor and enable their own deprivation. ...I don't know if this is the proper place for it (and if not, Mark, feel free to repost as a separate thread) but this is a conversation I have had many times with male friends, and I have some tips for self-care:
    1. Exercise, baths, sauna--anything that increases and soothes body awareness.
    2. Skin oiling using food-grade oils/combinations like sesame/coconut/almond/olive/castor (don't knock it, it's fantastic), esp the feet and hands and head/face. Twice a day on the feet, morning and night, and after bathing/showering when the pores are open. This is an ayurvedic practice for soothing the nervous system, both sympathetic and parasympathetic, and over time you will find yourself feeling much less touch-deprived and more secure within your body. Even if you can't leave it on, just wipe off with a dry or moist towel. You'll be shocked how much your body can absorb through the skin and ask for more--and for me, it's been years! Like water on desert sands. Add a drop or two of essential oil if you want.
    3. Oil pulling--which just means swishing a food grade oil like coconut or sesame in the mouth for 3-30 minutes and SPITTING IT OUT (do NOT swallow!). This pulls the toxins out of your body and calms it. And will lower your dentist bill.
    4. Massage and self-massage. Skin oiling is a kind of self-massage. Any kind of massage is great and stimulates the lymphatic and nervous systems. Machine massagers/rollers/stretches (which can massage the spine)--all great. Look into massage and couples massage classes and ask the instructors if there are others who need a partner as well. Get some credible experience
    5. Similarly, social dancing classes. If I can do it, anyone can! It will open up your world and give you lifelong skills.
    6. Similarly, cuddle parties if there are any in your area. Or start a social group/meetup if there aren't any. Someone contacted me last night on this site and I recommended this because it's a way of signaling that you understand boundaries and can have a common language for interaction and he said (as many others have) that nah, he wasn't interested in any social situation, just an immediate, intimate one-on-one private environment. And then he deleted his account because I wasn't interested. Creepy much?!!! Which brings me back to Jason's point.
    7. @Brandi's meditations are also a way to ground yourself.

    When the body/mind is calm, the heart opens, and people/animals can sense this right away. The less touch-deprived and touch-starved you are, the less imbalanced, the safer people will feel, and they will respond intuitively. You will feel better about yourself and your skin will glow. You will feel more grounded and more alive. Try it and see.

  • edited September 2017

    Thanks for the share, @JasonCuddles. I think a lot of guys probably have similar feelings to you. That quote you mentioned describes how I feel interactions come across at times for me as well (society currently tends to see it such that guys offhand are treated as suspect and have to prove themselves to be good, where women generally don't have that pressure).

    In general, my normal greet/farewell is to give people a hug, so that's been a nice way to generally share a bit of affection (I've done it so long, it feels weird if I don't do it).

    A good point I've heard recently ever since attending what's known as a 'cuddle party' (can reference http://www.cuddleparty.com/), or a group which has a goal of making platonic touch more common, and helping people practice boundary making, establishing some rules to initiating cuddling, and focus on communication and consent.

    A point they make is that typically, we treat physical affection as such: barring obvious non-platonic touch, you basically determine whether someone is ok with a physical gesture almost by just doing it, and then judging the other person's reaction. I.e., if you've never hugged someone before, and you're not sure if they'd like hugs, you try to initiate it, if they let you, you hug them and then kind of determine based on their reactions (and squirmy / squeamishness, if any) whether they liked the hug and whether any further physical contact may be wanted.

    The problem is that it is...retroactive, may be the word? Basically, if they happen to have not wanted that kind of touch, it's a bit too late cause you already did the action. So the cuddle party group has a focus of trying to improve the way that we initiate cuddling, by being very clear and upfront about what kind of physical interaction you'd like to give or receive first, before anything is done. If the other person does not give a clear verbal Yes, then don't initiate the contact. A 'Maybe' does not mean Yes, and a No is a complete sentence. And the person is allowed to change their mind at any point in time during the interaction.

    Per more consent and cuddle party ideas, feel free to check out this article, which is one gal's elegant explanation of her experience with one of the cuddle parties:
    https://www.bustle.com/articles/150836-how-a-cuddle-party-changed-the-way-i-view-consent?utm_source=FBOnsite&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=1

    It certainly is good that you want to be considerate of others, but it's also good to consider that you do have some needs for affection and that those are valid, and that some people want/like/need affection similar to us, perhaps they're just afraid to ask. It's important to honor boundaries, but honestly you won't know what a person's boundaries are unless you ask. So per your acquaintances, a potential good way to approach it is by asking them first, 'May I give you a hug?'. Then, if they say yes, you'll know you aren't crossing boundaries. Hugs for most people are pretty standard as well, though different groups may or may not do it super often. If a hug is too much, maybe make high fives standard, or a hand shake. I think introducing platonic touch in general could do much to benefit you and those around you.

    ///
    Oh, and per your point on men potentially being more intimidating because we do tend to naturally be bigger or have more strength, it is a fair point and also something I weigh when considering 'cuddling' or physically interacting with men. I will say though that this doesn't have to be a bad thing. It is something you have to be more cautious of to start, but if you can trust the person or for yourself, show others you are trust worthy, I find there is a confidence that can be had in being near someone who is strong and confident in it, who you can tell is a good person, has character, and is non-threatening.

    The problem is we've seen a lot of examples of strength and power which is abused, and sometimes men have been shamed for their strength, but the proper and positive way strength is to be used to protect and defend those we love. It enables others to feel safe and be able to be themselves. And, sometimes in cuddling, I've heard women say they enjoy cuddling/hugging men because it helps them feel safe.

    So related to bringing back platonic cuddling, is bringing back the idea that strength isn't inherently wrong/ bad, it's more how the person with strength uses it. (insert famous Spiderman quote here)

    Another good point for consideration I've heard is this, gentleness isn't a lack of strength, but strength under control.

    //////////////////////
    @sometimes First off, thanks for the suggestions, I like never use a sauna and rarely do massages, but I may try a couple of those out sometime.

    While it's true that safety is important, particularly for women, per the first article I mentioned, part of the issue they say (in relation to men experiencing touch isolation and not having many people available to physically interact with) is that there is a general mistrust of men in our society, even among other men. While some of it is warranted due to men behaving badly, some of that may have been caused by society blanket treating men and strength as bad guys or with suspicion.

    Some men try very hard to do the right thing, and get very little for their efforts, which eventually pushes them over the edge to rebel against what they originally stood for or to just stop caring. Or as Jason mentioned, may end up depriving themselves of what they need for the sake of others. While this can be workable for a time, over the long term, imo it's not a healthy way to live. Similar to how we find that children who grow up say in a household where they don't experience love or attention from their parents, are more likely to grow up and end up behaving badly or 'acting out', men who don't have an avenue to experience feeling loved or accepted over time, well, I can't imagine them turning out differently.

    While I am a fan of self improvement, such that I'll do what I can to try and improve my situation regarding meeting my need for affection where I can, it'd certainly help if others were there to support and believe and come alongside me in that process. As is, I feel I'm expected to do it all on my own, meet all my own needs first and be 'perfect', before others are willing to jump in and interact with me or give me a chance. Which is a bummer, because no one is perfect, and if you only like me when I'm problem-free (so to speak), then do you really actually care/love me, for me? Not to say that's what you're saying, but the general consensus I feel is that, it's been tough to find people (particularly, women seem overly cautious, if I'm being honest here) who are up to help or get involved.

    That's been my experience, anyway, though as a fairly strong introvert, part of it is just that I didn't get myself out there as often (and I can't expect people to feel comfortable around me if they never see me aka I'm never around). But working on doing what I can to become a more social person that people can feel safe and want to be around. Hopefully by having these discussions, we can reflect on these ideas, pray about them, and all move to a better place in our interactions with each other.

  • [Deleted User]chococuddles (deleted user)

    Nothing to add right now but just wanted to say this is one of the most incredible threads I've ever seen on here.

    The honesty, sincerity and generosity is eye-opening and heart-warming. <3

  • Same reason you wouldn't kiss a guy. Simple the way I see it.

  • @Batboy Currently, I don't feel comfortable cuddling with men, but that doesn't mean that any cuddling I do with women is therefore not strictly platonic. I am comfortable cuddling with women of a wide variety of ages and appearances that lie outside my sexual preferences. The thought of doing anything sexual with these women makes me uncomfortable. So my cuddling with women can still be strictly platonic, even though I'm not comfortable doing the same with guys.

    That said, I'm trying to figure out why exactly I'm uncomfortable cuddling with guys and whether it's something to be worked through or not. So far, it seems to have to do mostly with our culture and how men are socialized. I wouldn't mind being comfortable cuddling with guys if I can get there in a completely healthy way without forcing myself. We'll see what happens.

  • [Deleted User]Greybeard (deleted user)

    @ostinato I think you are absolutely right that out attitudes about men showing physical affection, such as cuddling, to other men is a function of our culture. I find it humorous that our culture does encourage men to slap each other on the butt on the athletic field. I think we will make substantial progress in the current generation if we can get to the point that if two men do want to show physical affection, we (almost) all agree that it's none of everybody's business. I don't expect we'll see men universally cuddling other men anytime soon.

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