@btc13 It's chicken or the egg. Do women carry purses, therefore they don't need pockets, or do they carry purses because they don't have pockets?
Any man that says women’s pants with pockets aren't popular or that women want them only because it’s about misogyny hasn’t lived around women much. It’s about practicality and with women working in just about all sectors now, pockets are appreciated because there are many situations where a purse becomes cumbersome. All you need to do is type in a search for women’s pants with pockets and you will find them—some companies emphasize the feature because it is a desirable feature to many women. Even beyond the workplace fashion design is beginning to integrate pockets.
If you have the good fortune to be at a table with several women chatting and talking, lob the topic out there about women’s pants and clothes with pockets. You will spark a discussion about the lack of options. You may even hear rants of frustration If you feel dangerous make the comment about how silly the notion of pockets in women’s clothes is. Make sure you are ok with never sitting at that table again.
I think it’s good that you get that sort of joy from a bright smile or thank you. Having pure intentions while being nice is awesome.
People, especially certain guys who live online and are wrapped up in social media culture (a lot of self-identified gamers) try to make you feel like you can’t do or say anything lest you get attacked for it. “the ick” “the bear dilemma” “no chivalry”
They hold deep resentment and hate that they want you to feel. In real life, I treat people nicely and they generally respond nicely. However, if you ask some dude who is absorbed in social media, he’ll tell you that a bunch of women will attack you for anything you do. Just ignore that sentiment and I think we’ll find that a lot of things have never actually gone away. There’s just nuance. There’s women who express their frustrations of courtesy being used in a not-so-innocent manner.
@Adento I have never seen a woman attack anyone for opening a door. The worst I have seen is if she reaches the handle at the same time I am reaching for it they say “I’ve got this”. I would also say this really isn’t about you or I as to whether it’s wanted or not—it’s up to the individual woman and women convey their messages in far more subtle ways because as a rule, women are far less confrontational and more diplomatic about expressing their refusal of certain acts than men. For example, the most common method is to merely reply back to the man, “you first”. I think women know men are in an awkward area regarding opening doors so they tend to mask any disapproval they may have. I have found most women are ok with opening doors.
My friend would disagree
@dennis22554 Which friend would disagree and what are they disagreeing about?
@WriterGF Most of the women I have interacted with carry many more things than would be practical to put in pockets. Also, I have seen women wearing clothes which do have pocket space (cargo pants for example) and still carry a purse.
Paragraph removed. you have been warned and even earned timeouts several times for your inflammatory posts, but haven’t seemed to have learned your lesson - no name calling please. You are now flirting with a permanent ban. [-RadiantHugs]
The only thing that ACTUALLY says about me is that I'm not willing to let a male think I "owe" him my body because he bought dinner (typically totalled less than $40 for both of us- You want my boyfriend's phone number for verification? I didn't think so!). I'm worth more. Your comment gives the impression that you expect what I referenced identifying yourself as part of the "problem". I'm "good" with it cuz it keeps fellas single- which cuts down on drama in having cuddle buddies!!
inflammatory paragraph removed. [-RadiantHugs]
@TheFunCartel Same. It’s so weird seeing such a fuss online. From my experience, it’s always the same guys who talk about “degenerate culture” and how everything they do is under attack lol
@btc13 - As a nanny, I have a specific bag that says "Nothing in this bag belongs to me" AND my purse with me when I go out with the kids. If my shorts or pants had taller pockets, I wouldn't need my purse. I need my phone, lip balm, sunglasses, and my facial sun screen (Don't even get me started on what all's in THEIR bag, but trust me- There's NO extra room!!) WE NEED THE POCKETS TOO!!!
@great_pillow08 I don't think that I could fit all of that in my pockets. Especially since I would need a wallet too.
It's cool
Nothing dies if it’s remembered and reused or brought back.
I am still not digging up my parents.
women are choosing to stay single and the birth rate's down
☺️
@great_pillow08 Might not be a bad thing, pregnancy and child birth is wear and tear on one's body. I learned that breastfeeding can be connected to the cause of osteoarthritis, which is what I'm dealing with in my right knee. 😁😬
Lol. No worries. 😜 I'll never tell my son that breastfeeding him for a month as a newborn , caused the calcium in the in my knee joints to go "bye bye". Lol 😆
As there are plenty of other factors to play into osteoarthritis too. Like being fat and old, but still pregnancy while a beautiful thing, can be an ugly sacrifice the long run! 😆
@btc13 It's actually a really fascinating topic to read about, I highly recommend it if you're curious. It's amazing how much of what we take for granted as "normal" and even "neutral" today in society stems from deeply complex and layered historical beliefs and systems of power.
Specifically on the question of pockets, I found a trimmed down article that may help spark further interest in individual research on the topic: https://inbreakthrough.org/politics-history-pockets/
If you're curious, look at The Rational Dress Society, the women's liberation movement post WW1 when the men came back from the war and took back the jobs women had done to keep the country running, hell, even the history of women's bathrooms, they're all fascinating looks at the political, social and moral ideals of the past and how they shaped the present.
Women's, in this case specifically white upper middle class women's struggle for suffrage and choice is just one small thread in the vast tapestry of history. 🤔 Evidence of prejudice and arbitrary power imbalances is very often the core of the human experience throughout the story of humanity, and personally, I think a lot of depth in that story is lost if we fear even mentioning it's existence as well documented fact. Clearly, I'm one of the nerds that enjoys studying history, and not everyone is gonna share that passion, and that's ok ☺️ But in my experience there's always something to learn from it, and closer inspection of the past always helps inform our present and help avoid the mistakes of the past in the future. 🤘🏻
I open doors and etc ... it's good manners where i am from. I think that there is a huge dating tradition from people in the city vs people in the country.
@dennis22554 Thank you ☺️ I enjoy topics like this immensely, so thank you for prompting it! Life is rarely as straightforward as it seems, and I've come to really love the complexity personal perspectives, cultural teachings, and an awareness of underlying systems can all bring to any topic. And in a world that is so rarely binary, a simple "you vs. me" argument is about as helpful as a stubbed toe 😂
@Runawaycuddles I agree that there is so much more to the history of how we got to where we are as a society than anyone would imagine unless they start looking into things as you have. The state of pockets in women's clothing is more of a vestigial organ of misogyny perpetuated for practical purposes rather than any intent to suppress, but I appreciate learning about the history.
@Runawaycuddles ....your reply l y was truly refreshing and has regained my faith in the art of communication. It's so nice having a civil conversation...that's what I thought this forum was about...a diverse group of individuals wanting respectful engagements about any subject. Usually my posrlts ..or my gropis are ripped apart by resident forum police after posting. Thank you for truly a pleasant experience!
@btc13 sorry, but you could not be more wrong. most women adore pockets!! Big ones, that actually fit our phones. why do you think we keep stealing all of your hoodies. So we have a damn pocket to put stuff into. (and don't get me started on the difference between men's hoodies and women's hoodies. 🙄
And now because of a comment on how women don't need/want pockets, you are all subject to my rant on pockets even though this is a thread about courting practices.
In the beginning, hundreds of years ago, men and women carried bags of different kinds. there were very few pockets. Pockets equals more fabric. not a lot of fabric to go around. easier to make a leather bag.
women's fashion changed to become more about structure (think pinched corsets that keep you from breathing) and I guess silhouettes (think pinched corsets that keep you from breathing).
women then only had an optino of handbag, while men began to have more and more pockets sewn into all their clothing. pants, waist coats, actual coats. If a man was wearing it, it got a pocket. And guess what, handbags are impractical. they are hard to carry around all day. this actually did keep women more dependent on men to hold items of importance. further separating women from independence in public spaces.
In more recent fashion, would a pocket affect the look and line of a super model wearing a pair of skinny jeans on the runway? Maybe? But it also seems like lazy designing.
And here's a big secret...we're not all super models wearing skinny jeans on a runway.
How I long for a real pocket. Not the fake pockets where they sew a line into the pant. or the halfway pockets that make you think there is a pocket but wouldn't fit more than a quarter in it.
If you've ever watched a "say yes to the dress show" or something similar, brides go crazy for a dress with pockets. You think they want to be without a way to store things for the entire day. They do not. They want pockets. Real ones.
Now, since this is supposed to be about old courting habits, do I like having the door held open for me? I absolutely do. Am I going to stand back and wait for you to hold it open for me if I am ahead of you? I am not. I might open the door for you instead since it seems the polite thing to do.
Am I going to sit in a hot/cold car while I wait for you to come around and open the door for me? Again, big no. Same for me being the first person in the car if I'm not driving. The keys should be the first thing in the car, turning it on so it can run the heat or the air conditioning, depending on the season. Now if you have warmed up/cooled down the car ahead of time, and we are walking toward it on my side and you are driving. and you happen to open the car door for me, i'm here for it.
I guess that's all I have on this for right now. ran out of steam.
But pockets. we want them. never ever ever think that it was our plan to cut pockets out of women's clothing.
I just wait until there are automatic sliding doors and then I stand back and shuffle women in as though I am corralling a sheep herd. Do I get mad and yell at them if they don't say thank you ? You better believe it!
the reality is that each person is going to be different. You can just ask. (going to use some binary pronouns here, so i apologize to those of us who identify outside them, just trying to make a point)
If you want to court in a certain way, then ask the person you are courting if that works for them. If you're a man who wants to pay for a women's meal on a date but you're worried she's one of those scary independent types, maybe just tell her what you would like to do and see how she feels about that. She might even answer you with actual words.]
If you're a woman who wants to be romanced in that way, maybe let the dude know that. (Now, unfortunately, we have been conditioned by societal standards and expectations to not speak up for ourselves. An outspoken women is quickly looked down upon in at least the society I am existing in.)
So the most courteous, chivalrous thing you can do? Ask them what they want. Tell them what you want. Ask what makes our lives easier. Ask us what is fun for us. Ask us how we can tell when someone cares about us (that's a key into what you can do if you're interested in them).
Women are becoming more independent. We don't "need" men the same way we used to (Remember women had to have a male cosigner to open a bank account until the 1970s. That's not a typo on the year. And that requirement also was not the idea of women, see my above pocket rant 🤣)
So ask us what we do need or want from you. We might surprise you. We might want the same kind of romance you're into. We might want something different. And would't that be good to know if you're starting a relationship with someone?
@pmvines like a little border collie just nipping at ankles and barking away. 🤣
@TheFunCartel that's a good call. 😬
@mauvefox
Border Collies are cute and spry. I'm more like a rottie or boxer with an uneven gait and an expression that says I'm getting too old for this shit
@mauvefox but boxers and rotties are also some of the sweetest and cuddliest breeds!!! and even i'm getting too old for my own shenanigans.
@mauvefox There are pants available for women with pockets such as cargo pants. Maybe I need to start a clothing company for women's clothes with pockets. Seems like there is demand here.
And FYI, phones are so big now it's hard to get them into anyone's pants pockets comfortably.
@btc13 I don't want to wear cargo pants. Not to yuck someone's yum... but yuck. 🤣🤣🤣
I want to wear jeans. comfortable jeans, with pockets. and yoga pants, with pockets. take any pair of pants or shorts or capris, i want pockets on them. it's not that hard actually.
and i definitely have found women's pants with pockets big enough to fit my pro plus. it's definitely doable. i shouldn't have to scour the interwebs to find them.