Off-topic discussions

Mark

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Warning: This topic is not what some people might refer to as a 'safe space" - it will likely contain some heated debates. If you're here to relax, you might want to consider ignoring it.

Mod note: The following discussion was moved from this topic to here. The embedded video has also been removed from this post but can be found here.

@corgilove This is one of your sisters I think.

All that swearing, all that consternation, all that abuse, all that racist b.s. ... because a man said "hello" to a woman.

That video is an example of why the MGTOW movement is growing.

umarmbar

(Sidenote: "Feminist claims Harassment..." I've made the bad decision to watch that video which basically shows an angry black woman and asserts she doesn't have a reason. That youtube channel appears to be very combative, focuses on borderline-violent street situations and uses "feminist" as an insult. I don't see _anything _ useful to this forum.)

Friends, please calm down a little

• It is okay to filter by age, as superficial as this may seem. (Wait no, age differenced aren't actually that superficial.)

• Nobody is entitled to anyone being friendly, and I don't find "don't talk to me" (on its own) is crossing any lines.

She just has narrow filters for the kind of conversation she wants, and says so. Maybe she feels the need to be more determined than "no thanks".

However, if I'm not mistaken, the second sentence plays into distrust / sometimes disgust of older people / men (notably older than the speaker), which is as real as detrimental.

I'd just like to say, @I_am_Polylover, I think your message is polite and your profile looks nice and honest too. May you have loads of positive responses to this kind of message! I will say that your approach isn't always going to work - and expecting politeness too much will often press all the wrong buttons with a lot women of who, after all, are experiencing more pressure to be kind in general and may be tired of that.

I don't have any rude messages to share and wouldn't want to bring in unrelated stuff from other forums. Hostile or rude interactions tend to be more powerful when they express systematic societal rudeness like this (in my personal experience, homophobia and hostile demands for masculine traits have been difficult to ignore sometimes).

@RScarf1 It's hard to tell whether the MGTOW movement is growing. My only awareness of it is through youtube videos. I don't agree with all of it though.

Some of the comments below those videos are extremely negative of all women, when that's quite an over-reaction. Not all women are bad.

And some of the comments are quite gleeful about the payback of misery and loneliness that these guys would like to inflict on women, which I think is a bit disturbing and makes those guys look rather bad.

Where MGTOW is right though, is that feminism, in the form that it has taken now, is a very bad thing, and that it is poisoning our culture to the point where men can end up being very unfairly treated.

I can't help but wonder whether feminism, and the "teaching" of feminism classes at universities and such, is a ploy by some group of people who WANT to cause these kinds of divisions in society. They spread these weird beliefs into society, and suddenly everything is a problem for these people: Saying "hello" to a woman is sexual harassment, all men are potential rapists, people can decide for themselves what gender they are and demand that others address them according to their delusion, disagreeing with feminism or with anything to do with the LGBTQWERTY movement is automatically hate-speech, etc... Where will all this take us? Can't we just go back to the good old 60's or 70's?

Peace, love, and mungbeans.

The 60’s and 70’s were only good for some. Beyond that, the desire for “The good old days,” in itself can be somewhat delusional. @Frankincense you seem to have some pretty strong beliefs that I find chilling, but some of mine might upset your sensibilities too. Oh well.

JasonCuddles

@Frankincense People being trans doesn't hurt anyone. I think it's unfortunate that you're seemingly against them. Nobody in the LGBT+ community is hurting anyone.

Also I just want to say that feminism is great. Equality between the genders is something I am behind. If a woman is just man hating then she is not a feminist. I wish people would stop using the word incorrectly.

JFGreen

Well said @JasonCuddles, nothing more needed to be said on that topic.

@JasonCuddles
"Nobody in the LGBT+ community is hurting anyone."

That's simply not true.
There have been numerous cases where people from the LGBT community have sought out christian business people (such as baker, photographer, inn keeper) to supply goods or services for their gay "wedding", and when the christian business person declined because it conflicted with their conscience, these LGBT people dragged them off to court and ruined their lives, instead of just going to another business supplying the same service.
People have also been imprisoned for preaching that the bible teaches that same-sex relations are sinful and will keep a person from obtaining eternal life in heaven. Warning a person of the dangers of their lifestyle is hate-speech, apparently.
And in some schools girls have been made very uncomfortable by being forced to accept boys who identify as girls in their bathroom facility.
The LGBT community wants tolerance, but is unwilling to extend it to others who don't share their views. They are a minority who expect the majority to adapt to their demands. And to get their way, as the above examples show, they are happy to hurt others in the process.

@Natwhilk I'm interested in this word "power play". What does it mean to you? Could you define what a power play is please. Maybe give some typical examples too.

JasonCuddles

@Frankincense I see. I don't know what has happened in your life but I hope you come to see that the vast majority of people don't wish to see any harm come to you regardless of which community they are in. Don't let a few bad apples(which exist in every group) form your opinion on a much larger, kinder, and silent majority.

pmvines

@Frankincense I'm not even going to entertain your agenda as being within the context of logic. The next time you wonder why you have a hard time finding a cuddle pal on here, I encourage you to go back and read your posts.

@pmvines The reason why has nothing to do with my posts in the forum. It's because most profiles in my country are inactive. They sign up, visit once, then abandon it. Many of them are also a lot younger than I, and I'm outside their age parameters.
There are plenty of people who share my views.
I just love how pathetic you white knights are, putting another guy down for his views (and suggesting I now have an "agenda"?) just to score brownie points with the ladies and increase your chances of getting next to one. Pathetic!

WilliamD

A clear statement needs to be made here.

I agree with much of what @Frankincense has had to say. And with that I make the statement "These groups are all good in many ways, but there are many problems with in them. Simply nothing is ever perfect."

Let me show a example of neutral that frankincense has stated.

You set up business to serve your community culture. Establishing rules and standers you follow to keep the community customers happy. Some stranger to your community comes in asking you to do some thing that goes against your community. From business view the owner will think about it... is it worth it to change for more customers of different type... or will this hurt my standing with community the and culture of customers I already have and my time is taken up by.

Forcing a business to change as I have shown is very likely to hurt them. And more then likely there are other business that be happy to do the job. And if not the bright minded person would see a chance to start a new business and they will shape it to the community and culture they are serving.

It is rather insane world we are living in that some one can take business to court when no serves was pay for and agree on. And it is bond to have even more crazy examples if allowed to continue.

My own standing on how to address people is often how they present them selfes. If unsure I'll remain neutral.

I am happy to be friendly to any one... but people I find that are easily triggered and can not be reason with. I will keep my distance from.

I was born and raised in Alaska... in my youth learned to be friendly and chatty with every one. After all if your car brakes down on back road in winter before every one had cellphones... no telling who you would be counting on for help in your community.

Sideon

@Frankincense Every single U.S. business uses public utilities and services paid for by our collective gay, straight, and not-so-straight dollars. Businesses don't get to discriminate and expect to continue to receive tax breaks and benefits without consequences. Of course they'll be taken to court for discriminating. Businesses that choose to discriminate and exclude parts of the public will not succeed - this has been shown again and again.

Please source your claim that "people have been imprisoned for preaching" - and no, Fox news is not a reliable source. If you're referring to imprisonment outside of the U.S., again, provide sources.

Your transphobia and ignorance speaks for itself.

Good luck cuddling. Have you considered a pet rock?

@WilliamD I obviously have a point of view that is in the minority here. But that being said, we get into trouble when se start allowing businesses who benefit from the commons, and are given license to do trade goods and services to willy nilly decide who they will serve or not serve. That takes us back to the segregated lunch counters in Woolworths in 1950. What you do in your home, your church, or your non-government related social club is one thing, but in the public sphere you are serving the public. This argument gets personal when we are talking about one particulat group, in the current conversation, LGBTQetc. But take that out and make it a fill-in-the-blank and start talking about not serving certain races, certain nationalities, certain religions, cat lovers, left handed people, it gets to be insane.

pmvines

Say what you will but I refuse to tolerate intolerance under the guise of being respectful of others opinions and beliefs. There are multiple threads by same people complaining incessantly about women, feminism, and gay rights. I do not attack the individual, but I have no sympathy for the belief or ideal.

This thread has gotten out of control lol were here to cuddle

WilliamD

Small business relies heavily on there community.

@Greybeard Americas time of segregation serves a good point to what I have stated. But there where people in that time smart enough not be races and open up business to every one. I have heard stories of Chines Americans opening up Mom&Pop stores some times even across the street from white mom&pop stores that would not sell to every one.

Now days we have government stepping in telling us what we can and can not do. Making life maybe better and in allot of ways more costly.

Big box chain stores open up and do not employ as many people as small stores did. Often location of big box chain stores are not good. We travail farther for work and for shopping adding to are cost of living. Granted lately shopping these days shifting to online... but they will just average the cost of moving the product into items cost to make it look like free shipping. In time may see the big box stores go same way as mom&pop stores and leading to even less of percentage of workers in this area.

Artisans small business with filling some small place in market... that big box chain stores are over looking to supply. Are only once to stand any chance. But it no wonder that nine out of ten new business fail. If they do not have the freedom to meet what needs and wants there community/culture have.

It is already insane and frankly normal people scare me... you never know when and how bad there going to loose it when they finely do snap and go insane.

Look Ma! I'm in the OT Discussion! WHEEEEEE!!!!

On a serious note a letter created and signed by over 250 female animation artists was submitted to a Guild last night demanding animation studios and the Guild place better sexual harassment laws in place. We'll see what comes of it but Female Animation Artists have had it.

60% of animation students are female but only 20% of animation artists in studios are female.

OT outro.

I did not know that was happening at the animation studios. I googled it and several articles were written about it. I go to comic book conventions and see more women working in comics. I've talked to a few female artists. I think it's great having more women work in comics. However, I disagree with the Social Justice Warrior agenda that Marvel has. I want a woman to be hired based on talent and not because of their sexual orientation and their version of feminism which is male disempowerment. Their views are then incorporated into the comic book which is adversely affecting sales.

Totally agree @RScarf1 - there are A LOT of female comic artists at conventions.

Most of what I got was that women are sick of being sexually harassed in the workplace and want the same opportunities as men. Marvel is owned by Disney so it's already a watered-down version of itself.

We'll see how things go.

@Sideon, if businesses aren't allowed to discriminate, why are there female-only fitness centres where males are not allowed? They're here in NZ and I assume they exist in the US too. I've also heard about girls wanting to join the boyscouts and pressuring them to allow girls. And in the city where I live there was an exclusive men-only club, and women took them to court to force them to allow women in. The club opted to simply cease to exist rather than allow women in.
If the reverse were to happen, where boys insist on joining the girl scouts, or men insist on being allowed to use women-only fitness centres, I'm betting there would be howls of protest from women, and the courts would not rule in favour of the men.
There was a case where a female (a teacher I believe) had a sexual relationship with an underage boy (statutory rape) and she became pregnant as a result. Somehow, by some twisted women-favouring logic, the boy was required to pay child support!
There have also been numerous cases where women (knowingly) named the wrong guy as the father of the child, and despite DNA evidence clearing him, the man was still required to pay child support for a child that wasn't his.

Women supposedly want equality, but they still like to heap injustice upon men with these sorts of things. I think it's not so much equality they want, but the best of both worlds: all the advantages and none of the disadvantages.

I agree Frankincense. Boys will probably not be permitted in the Girl Scouts even if they want to be. I was a Boy Scout. We sometimes went on camping trips and two boys were in the same tent. Are they going to let a boy and a girl sleep in a tent? I guess they will have to buy extra tents so girls can sleep together. The merit badges are similar, so maybe the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts will merge eventually. Regarding all men's and all women's businesses and if they are forced to permit people of the opposite gender by the court, there are going to be some courts that permit them and some will not. Yes, there are all female fitness centers in the United States. I have never heard of any all male gyms, although some golf clubs only allow men. It is very risky for men in America to be in a relationship with a single mother. There have been instances that the court will force a man to pay child support even though he is not the father if the child identifies him as his dad. There are videos about this on YouTube. Unless a man intends to marry a single mother and accepts supporting her child or children from another man, then he should not be in a relationship with her. In America, the courts are not always fair and impartial towards men when they are in relationships with single mothers. I assume this is happening in other countries as well such as New Zealand. I agree that some women want advantages, but no disadvantages. I watch the MGTOW videos on YouTube because they provide information that the mainstream media does not want you to hear.

@Frankincense - I did hear about the Boy Scouts allowing girls in. My first thought was "isn't there already Girl Scouts?". I see Girl Scouts every year selling cookies (mm love the shortening bread ones!) but have not seen a Boy Scout in over 10 years. Seeing as how females already have Girl Scouts and now want to be in Boy Scouts why not just make it 'American Scouts' or just 'The Scouts'? What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine? Trying to understand why this shift would take place.

Also last week I finally found the perfect gym for me with everything I need but - women only. Even tho the majority of workers and trainers there are male. My sister goes to an all-female gym and I can understand why some women would want that. But did it have to be the one that was perfect for me?

GeekCuddles

So just to clarify for the Boy Scout thing. Girls will be allowed to make their own Cub Scout Troops but it will still be separated from the Boy Troops. This is mainly to allow female Troops to take part in more traditionally male activities for merit badges (survival, fire making etc) without having the added "homemaker crafts" section that the Girl Scouts do. In addition the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are completely different organizations that have always been at odds, so this is also a corporate move by the Boy Scouts to basically double their potential market.

Frankly I think both organizations should just open up to all genders to allow the children to focus on what interests them. ideally they would merge, but with their history of contention I doubt that would ever happen.

@RScarf1 I like watching youtube videos for the same reason, because they often show what the mainstream media won't show. The mainstream media is often complicit in covering something up or distorting the truth, and you can see that exposed on youtube. Not that all youtube videos are trustworthy though... there's also a lot of crap and misinformation there, so one has to be cautious in assessing the information. I also learned through youtube how the media will use various words to shape public opinion about something. For instance, in another country there may be a very bad tyrannical government but its one that the US government likes for some reason. And in that country there are oppressed people who are rising up to rid themselves of that tyrannical government. But in the newsmedia they are described as "rebels" or "insurgents" or some other derogatory term, while the tyrannical government is as "government". But if the media want to portray things the other way around (when, say, a good government is attacked by people armed and funded by the CIA) they'll call those people "freedom fighters" and the government is called a "regime" to make it seem illegitimate.
One of the things that MGTOW pointed out was how men are often described in the media. Often when men die in some mishap, they are not "men" but "firefighters" or "miners" or whatever. Men tend to be described by their profession or just as "people", but women are described as women. So a report might say "50 people died, including women and children." One of the worst examples they showed was a report with something like "5 people died, including a woman and her 3 children." Okay, so a woman plus 3 children comes to 4 people, so who was the fifth? Must have been a man but he wasn't worth mentioning specifically.

@chococuddles (cool moniker dude!) I know a way you could go to that women's only gym. Just tell them you're a woman trapped in a man's body and that you sexually identify as a woman. (A lesbian woman even, so you can preserve your sexual preference!) And if they still deny you entry make a huge fuss over them not acknowledging your identity as a woman and how that's insulting and discriminatory and sexual harassment. (Might as well throw that last one in there too.) Maybe you could get one of the LGBT community's lawyers on board to help you win this case.
You might have to wear a dress, fancy knickers, and lipstick for a while though.

@GeekCuddles Opening up both organisations to both genders could create issues though. Like when going on camping trips. With a bunch of curious boys and girls together in the woods in tents, they may well focus on what interests them, which is probably not what the parents of these children would want them to focus on.
Also, would parents feel comfortable with male leaders overseeing their daughters on camping trips? Or female leaders overseeing their sons? And with the potential for false allegations that are hard to shake, would male leaders even want girls along on camping trips? Already a lot of men are avoiding teaching careers for that reason alone.

I used to be a teacher. I did not have to be concerned too much about false allegations from students. I was much more concerned about false allegations from female coworkers. It has happened to me many times because I have worked in professions where most of the employees are female such as teacher, police dispatcher, and now I'm a librarian and it has happened there too.

I'm a feminist LGBTQUERTY queer lover! I love genderqueers! I love trans people! I love androgynous people! I love straight people! I love lesbians! I love enbies! I loooooooooovvvve women! I love men! LOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVEEEEEEE.

Oh, and I love Corgis too!

I love the boundaries lessons before group cuddles! I boundaries!

I love me!!!

I love the world! All of you people!

Put down the wine glass corgilove. Sounds like you've had a few too many already.