The problem with Karma

This discussion was created from comments split from: Thoughts on certification?.


  • [Deleted User]chococuddles (deleted user)

    The problem with 'beaming reviews' or karma is that some are exaggerated or just fake.

    I've known clients who had bad cuddle sessions and gave a glowing review "to be nice" or "just be done with it".

    I do believe reviews play their part in any business but as an entrepreneur I think it's important to be open to learning. They have life drawing sessions at Disney and Dreamworks for a reason. Yes they are pros but they're always trying to improve.

    This is not aimed at anyone in particular just saying there are various points of view to be considered.

    But I'll echo what some have said already - "either you got it or you don't". <3

  • The nice part about Karma here is that you can actually reach out, privately, to the people that posted the Karma.

  • [Deleted User]chococuddles (deleted user)

    Agree 100% @Scarlette. I do love that part about the karma. thumbs up emoticon

  • [Deleted User]Alternis (deleted user)

    My problem with karma is that there's no way to separate a good session with a great one without offending someone.
    If I had a good session and 4 starred someone and reserved my 5 stars for people who I think go above and beyond id probably get a bunch of backlash for it.

  • @alternis That's a good point. I've been in that bind, wanting to reserve 5-Stars for "as good as it gets," without making someone feel slighted. On Amazon, either 4 or 5 stars is considered a positive review, while 3 stars or below is considered critical. Here on CC, i give less credence to the number of stars awarded, and more credence to the substance of the actual review. They can be very informative.

  • At my work, a survey is an extremely important thing. Anything less than a 5 is very bad and it takes many many good surveys to come back from a bad survey. The rating system on CC is not a good one. Most clients won’t leave anything less than a 5 for a pro for fear of retaliation. I would love to see this system fixed.

  • edited January 2018

    I'm assuming this is something that even websites like eBay and AirBnB suffer from to some degree. It was suggested to me a while back to move away from stars to a simple thumbs up and thumbs down type rating. That might solve the redundant star issue but not the retaliation element.

    Do you have an idea for a solution?

  • @Mark what about just simply leaving a comment without the points system? If someone wants more details they can always pm

  • edited January 2018

    I would like there to be a rating system of some sort. One reason being I think negative reviews need to stand out and without ratings they will be lost in a sea of text. Please keep the ideas coming but for now I don't wish to do anything as drastic as abolishing the rating system entirely.

  • yeah I used to rent out of Airbnb and they use their rating system to remove people on there that could not maintain a 4* rating. Uber does the same. Too many negative reviews bans you as a driver or a rider actually. I'd be ok with thumbs up or down and they can type what the want to say about the experience. But tbh I'm still hoping for me first 5* soon :)))

  • edited January 2018

    Maybe there should be a window of time where karma can be posted but it's initially hidden. Then say 10 days later karma ability is locked and the reviews are then revealed. Only downside I can think of is you can't delete and re-post if a user's conduct changes for the worst but perhaps that's a worthwhile sacrifice in order to solve the retaliation issue.

  • edited January 2018

    I think members should be able to leave Karma anonymously. No one other than the member leaving the Karma and the admins should know who left it. Karma should only be visible to the member who it’s been left for. The benefits are there would no longer be fake karma generated to attract other members. Members would no longer be afraid to leave non five star karma. Members could take this much more honest karma as constructive criticism. Since the admins would be able to see who left the Karma, this would eliminate abuse. Flags should be generated for the admins if a member reaches a pre determined rating that’s lower than accepted. If a members rating drops too low, there should be repercussions which will hopefully keep everyone on their best behavior.

  • edited January 2018

    If someone publicly attacks your character, don't you feel there is a right to know who the accuser is?

  • [Deleted User]Alternis (deleted user)
    edited January 2018

    Maybe clients and pros should have separate karma. Clients are not being hired so the only prerequisites for a positive review to the client would be that the session happened, pro got paid and the client was respectful. Only after getting the positive karma can the client now leave karma for the pro.

  • Issue with that is that if the pro wants karma then they are forced into giving it to the other person. This creates an odd dynamic where free will is threatened

  • @Mark Well in my idea, I said only the member would be able to see the karma so it wouldn’t be public. I also suggested that admins are able to see it and know who it came from so that would hopefully prevent people from “attacking” another member.

  • I also thought about what @Alternis suggested and having a different rating system for pros and non pros.

  • [Deleted User]Alternis (deleted user)

    @pmvines I don't see the problem with that at all.

    If a pro doesn't want karma or want to give karma that's fine, if a pro wants karma one way but will not give it back then I wouldn't give them any either way.

    If the pro had a bad session with someone because the client kept on pushing boundaries then that client shouldn't be getting positive karma anyway and be reported.

    What is a scenario where you feel it would be a negative thing?

  • Having the prereq of having to have been given the karma in order to give it in return. I feel that takes free will out of the equation because being able to give the karma is dependent upon the karma you receive. Also it puts the pro in the position of having to somewhat pander in order to get karma, whereas it may have not been something they planned to do. If I am misreading what you propose then please inform, however this is my understanding of it.

  • @alternis I think I'm confused by what you're saying.

    "Clients are not being hired so the only prerequisites for a positive review to the client would be that the session happened, pro got paid and the client was respectful"

    Are you saying that an enthusiast should get 5 star Karma simply because "the session happened" and they were respectful? So enthusiasts should either get 5 star Karma or be reported with nothing in between?

    That seems crazy to me. There is a whole lot of in between there. Take the fact that we are pros out of the equation. If there are 2 enthusiasts cuddling shouldn't they be able to leave truthful Karma?

    All of this talk about I'll leave you Karma if you leave me Karma is silly. Sometimes I get Karma and sometimes I don't. Some clients do not want to show that they have cuddled with any particular cuddler so they request that I don't leave them Karma and they won't leave any for me. No big deal. Some clients don't want or leave Karma because they have a regular pro and they don't want her to know they tried someone else. Again, no big deal.

  • [Deleted User]chococuddles (deleted user)

    "Some clients do not want to show that they have cuddled with any particular cuddler so they request that I don't leave them Karma and they won't leave any for me. No big deal. "

    That's my jam!

  • edited January 2018

    @chococuddles in your example, my idea would work perfectly

  • [Deleted User]Alternis (deleted user)

    I meant that maybe clients should have a different type of karma where it's either a positive or a negative but if the session is verified to have happened and everything went well then it's an automatic positive rating.

    As far as the karma itself I don't mind if I do get karma or not and I've seen some pros who don't want to deal with the karma system at all. I can respect that. My best session was actually with a pro who didn't want any karma so that sessions with clients would feel more personal and that the client didn't feel like he was one of many.

    What I do have an issue with is when a pro asks for karma but is not willing to return it because I consider that selfish.

  • @Alternis I think that " everything went well " is a huge generalization. There is a range of "something going well."

    I went to work today and didn't kill any of my patients and I didn't get fired. The day went well. Tomorrow, I go to work and save 3 lives and get a raise. The day went well? Relating that to cuddling, one cuddle was good, no boundaries were pushed and had a nice time. The other was an extraordinary cuddle with positive energy, great conversation and an amazing connection. Do they rate the same?

  • @scarlette if you use @alternis idea with your example, the pro cuddlers would be the health care provider and the patients would be the client. The patient rating you is important but why should you rate your patient? Does it really matter how good of a patient he was? Or is all that matters is that he was respectful and paid his bill? Should other health care providers see him based on how good of a patient he was or Are they simply there to provide a professional service which should be available to everyone?

  • [Deleted User]Alternis (deleted user)

    It's unfair to make that comparison because a client doesn't get compensated monetarily.

    We do need a different type of system and we can all brainstorm different ideas that may work or may not. The problem that there is right now is that theres not much free will both ways. My last three cuddlers told me that karma is meaningless because they got sexually harassed by someone who also had plenty of positive karma. The moment a client can go be a weirdo and do things that end up driving pros off the site and still get 5 starred is when we need to reevaluate the system.

    We're all brainstorming here so Any suggestions is welcomed.

  • I'd be ok with removing the karma all together and just having a private critique that I could look at and use to improve instead of a response saying that I was perfect. I'd prefer the critique private but i would definitely want it in order to grow and improve. I will always have room for improvement. There are always new things for me to learn.

  • edited January 2018

    @Morpheus Ok... take my example and make me an auto mechanic or a construction worker. I used patient / therapist example simply because I'm a respiratory therapist. But using that example, when we give report we absolutely address patient behavior and attitude. I can't just say "everything is well" with Morpheus. I give a full update, not only regarding his health but regarding him as a person. Was he agitated today, was he aggressive, was he disrespectful, was he happy because his family was visiting, etc. It's not a 1 through 5 star rating system but we do want to pass on to others his attitude and behavior.

    Mod Notice: This has been modified as it contained personal information about another person that is not otherwise public knowledge.

  • @Scarlette I’m really glad to see that you agree that clients should not be on the same one through five Karma system that pros are on. Thank you for that.

  • @alternis I agree the rating system could use an overhaul. The one good thing about Karma is that you can reach out to the people leaving the Karma. This can be done privately. So, even if you don't believe any of the Karma you can still potential get an accurate rating. I would have absolutely no problem if someone reached out to my previous cuddlers. I actually encourage it. The star part of the rating system, I honestly don't even look at.

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