When is it ok if ever anymore ?

hugonehugall

To be honest the idea for this discussion came to me via following the situations of a couple other people on another social media site. In both situations 2 separate individuals detailed stories about being approached and propositioned for dates/romantic encounters in a workplace setting. One as the employee and one as the customer both female ( but the questions I'm about to ask are not necessarily gender or sexual orientation specific ) but I guess its important to know their specific genders for context. Both women stated feeling uncomfortable in their situations because they felt the persons asking were over the top creepy , unprofessional , and in one case extremely vulgar and rude. But putting that aside if you can assuming it was done in a polite , respectful manner as either employee or customer would you ever find it appropriate ....

A. To ask that person on a date , inquire about taking them to dinner , a coffee , or what have you.
B. If the answer is no how come ? ( again assuming the approach is polite and respectful )
C. Is there ever a time or situation in our everyday lives outside of work where said proposition would be welcomed ?
D. In relation to cuddling specifically pro cuddling ,obviously all encounters here are to be entered into with an absolute platonic mindset before & during the session. Per site rules any inquiries about anything beyond are to be explored after the fact if one chooses to do so. How would you feel if a client ( afterall where you cuddle is technically your workplace ) reached out to you for a dinner date or coffee with romantic intentions and vice versa as a client how would you feel if a cuddler did so to you.
I have my opinions on all this but I'll hang up and let you guys answer 1st. Im interested in your response to any or all of the above questions.

geoff1000

The way I've seen / heard of it being done, is to say that one is going to be at a certain place, at a certain time. In parallel, one makes it clear that one enjoys the company of the other, implying that one would like the other to be there.

If the other wishes to meet "off-site" they can choose to be at the appointed time and place, but they are not actually asked to be there.

For instance, one might say that one is entering a running race, but will be quite slow near the back. Or that they typically go swimming / ice-skating / bowling etc. on the second Thursday of each month at a particular place. Leave the trail of breadcrumbs.

The key, I think, is "plausible deniability". It's like customs officers do "random" searches, so that when they get a tip-off, they find the drugs without revealing their source.

It also works the other way ; the "invitee" can turn up, without explicitly accepting the invite.

geoff1000

Similarly, one can have coffee / lunch with a coworker, by inviting the whole team ; and letting them have a "taste" of what a 1:1 meeting would be like.

Asking someone to go out for coffee or a date or anything else in a polite and respectful way is never a problem. The bigger issue is what happens if the person politely and respectfully says, "No." I've asked many women in various situations, including work, out for coffee or on dates. Sometimes they say, "Yes," and sometimes they've said, "No." When the answer has been "no" or when the answer has been "yes" and things work out for a while, I've always tried to be an adult and end things respectfully, even if it means we won't even be friends. The keys are the ask, the handling of rejection, and navigating things when they come to an end. And there is no "one size fits all." Everyone is different, but if YOU conduct yourself as an adult, no matter what response you get, things will be fine.

geoff1000

Part of the difficulty, is that people usually want to believe that a potential partner is seriously interested in them specifically, rather than just wanting anybody. That means : the "asker" must be dedicated enough to put up with some discouragement, and the "askee" must not seem as if they say yes to everyone. The combination requires some degree of reluctance and persuasion, even if it is fabricated.

The need for politeness and sensitivity often means the "No" comes with an excuse ; that the "askee" is busy that day, or doesn't like the specific activity offered. The "asker" then has to work out if the "askee" wants them to ask again something different, or not.

So much easier as a teenager, asking another if they want to "go out", then choosing a mutually-agreed activity and date.

Sheena123

I would be a no for most of these merely because I’m married. And I’m also a pro who stays professional so I never try to lead any cuddler on thinking it would be ok to ask me on a date. Most of these answers might be repetitive.

A- I always like to meet for a coffee directly before a cuddle session as a nice ice breaker. It’s free time I like to give as its beneficial for both of us. If I got a vibe they think it’s a romantic date, I either wouldn’t agree to meet or I would make sure they understand it is not a romantic date.

B- my reasoning for saying no is because this is a job. Just because I absolutely love cuddling doesn’t mean it’s not a job. It needs to stay professional.

C- this wouldn’t apply to me because I’m married but it’s definitely ok to politely ask someone out at work or outside of work. Could be at karaoke, or a bar, or at a pool league or sports event. I don’t see an issue. As long as you’re respectful even if it doesn’t work out.

D- I guess I already answered this. If there was a romantic intention to asking me out, I’d have to shut them down. First off, they would already know I’m married and I stay professional so that wouldn’t be a smart choice for them. I have some cuddlers that I’ll actually meet outside of cuddle sessions. Some I play pool with. Some I go out for ice cream with. Some I meet for karaoke. I don’t mind spending time with them outside of cuddles as long as they understand it isn’t a date or a romantic thing.

BrianL

I've never had a date. I've had relationships, but no dates. As for asking someone I work with, no. I wouldn't do that. Mostly because I don't believe in mixing business with pleasure. Also because I just naturally assume that everyone is taken (be it dating currently or more seriously) and/or not interested.

SimilarGamma

"C. Is there ever a time or situation in our everyday lives outside of work where said proposition would be welcomed ? "

Is this question asking if it is ever OK to ask anyone out? Ever, in any situation? Hopefully the answer to that is clear...

hugonehugall

@SimilarGamma the answer believe it or not is not as simple as it seems.

UKGuy

Personally, I've never asked a woman out on a date. And I've never been asked out by a woman (do women ever do that?). Both would be an absolute no-no in a workplace setting since it could possibly be interpreted as workplace harassment. I think what it boils down to is if the approach is from someone desirable, it's acceptable, if it's from someone undesirable, it's unwelcome. I think @geoff1000 summed it up very well.

SimilarGamma

@hugonehugall I don't understand this issue. I've asked tons of women out. Sometimes they say yes. Sometimes they say no. I have occasionally been asked out by women, though of course that's a lot rarer. Regardless, it's never been a problem.

Generally don't ask out people at work, and generally don't ask out people whose job obligates them to be nice to you (like waitstaff). Maybe consider making an exception if the person makes it extremely obvious they're interested in you.

Where is the difficulty?

geoff1000

@SimilarGamma
"Where is the difficulty?"

. . . asks the 6 feet 2 athletic guy. 😀

hugonehugall

@SimilarGamma the issue is more and more people ( primarily female or those who identify as such ) seem less receptive to being approached for any reason out in public by people they don't know or already have a relationship with. I think my point is once upon a time it wasn't like that ... And I'm more curious as to what changed and why ? Because if you're like me you grew up in an era where that was the only to way to meet people , start relationships , or ask someone out on a date. No one does it anymore and if they do it's almost viewed as creepy or stalkerish.

Kense

Asking out co-workers is against company policy here, especially by those in management positions. That only leads to a disastrous situation, when things go bad it translates to the office and just makes things uncomfortable for everybody.

hugonehugall

@Kense I wasn't referring to workplace relationships within co-workers but yes several places have that policy.

geoff1000

A relationship between coworkers who have any interaction in the workplace, risks problems if the relationship goes bad, or even if it stays good.

The only exception to the latter is probably two actors who are trying to make it look genuine.

littermate

I wouldn't be interested in anything in a workplace, but I don't have one so that's moot. I work from home.
Occasionally a student/client will ask me to tea and I will warmly refuse, stating that I don't form personal relationships of any sort with students/clients.

In any other setting, I'm fine with anyone asking me to do anything as long as it's respectful and polite. Seriously, you can always ask. I don't find other people asking for stuff oppressive, but I know some people do. I'm a big girl who can consider requests and accept or refuse them by my own self and don't need people protecting me from their sincere requests, no matter the nature.

I'd always review the relationship to see if the request would somehow compromise its function - - for example, if the ex of a friend asked, if a former therapist asked, if an official at my daughter's school asked, etc. Is it wise in this circumstance to widen the channel of relating? Case-by-case basis for me.

In terms of enthusiast cuddling, as long as it was a meta-conversation outside of a cuddle, I'd be open to whatever someone had to say to me about what they wanted, since what they want has nothing to do with what I want -- to me it's a standalone phenomenon. The question might though affect our cuddling if I felt like the question indicated the person couldn't stay easily within the platonic range, but I think I would have already picked that up. I find I can (and I imagine others can) be mutually attracted and still keep it platonic. I would prefer a fellow enthusiast not invite me on a "date" but actually express their feelings generally and find out how those landed with me, before taking it to a particular date proposition. "I feel _____. Would love to find out if you're open to expanding our relating to include ____."

If after I clearly refused someone kept wheedling, needling, pressuring or in any way insulted or punished me, goodbye! Don't need the disrespectful in my world.

Thanks for this thread. It's interesting!

StoryDoctor1138

If it wasn't for a workplace, I'd never meet anyone to consider asking out. This might also explain my current level of social activity.

BoomerSpooner

I find blackmail a great antecedent to dating someone.

hugonehugall

I think timing and place is key in any situation.
For instance you find the cashier waiting on you in the grocery line attractive and friendly and you say " Why not ? " unless she has a backlog of 10 people behind you in line , then is not the time to chat her up about her weekend plans. Same also for a server that you might be interested in you can't do love talk and slow jams when they have 20 other tables to get to.
Even when people are off the clock most people walk around with their heads buried in their phone , tablet , or ear buds in ( which I believe is a major source of the issue ) I have people tell me especially female friends that sometimes their phone is out just as a deterrent to keep people from approaching them or to keep a guy from walking up to them and asking them out. Or even as going as far as doing the whole fake wedding band bit.

Sideon

a) Dating anyone from work is problematic, even if they're in different departments or in lateral positions. Persons in positions of authority asking people out on dates, coffee, dinner, etc. is ripe for claims of sexual harassment.

b) There are other venues besides work to look for potential dates: various meetup groups, community events, concerts, theater, bars, gyms, coffee shops, local clubs and activity groups. Hell, Walnut Creek opened up a legit German-style beer garden with awesome drafts, good food, and table-top games - I've met, drank with, and gamed (translation: mostly drank while kind of playing board games) with other peeps for hours here. If I was looking to date, I'd start here, myself.

c) I'm open to compliments or advances, but not from management/leadership team members.

d) I'm not a pro, but if I was, I would not initiate a romantic overture to a client. No way. The only way would be to break-off any client relationship, give that space some time, then initiate contact.

Sheena123

I actually forgot to mention that I met my husband at a job. I was a cook and he was the kitchen manager lol I was dating my boss. We asked the manager to make sure it was ok and he knew we would get together before we even knew lol

I asked him out and that’s kind of how it happened. And now I’m married to him so maybe that says something?

hugonehugall

@Sideon all good points and thank you for the input but my post wasn't specifically about co-workers dating ... Its about customer approaching an employee or vice versa ... And about approaching strangers in general

hugonehugall

@Sheena123 does this mean you're the boss now ?

Sideon

Sorry, @hugonehugall - that's how I read your original post. Approaching strangers, for me, is entirely different answer.

Sheena123

@hugonehugall lol I’m a little bossy and he’s a smart guy so he knows to pick his battles lol

deefine

Work is the best place to start romantic drama.

geoff1000

@Sideon
Every place you mention (2:02 am), has at some time been mentioned by females, as places where they don't want guys "hitting on them".

If someone enjoys the encounter, they will say that place is OK to be "propositioned" at ; and if they don't, they will say that place was not OK.

The key is to somehow have so much interaction, without actually crossing any lines, to work out that a "date request" would be accepted. There's no place to learn that.

Sideon

@geoff1000 - I'm not speaking for women. I'm a gay man and I don't mix romance and work. Part b of my response listed great venues for myself and other gay guys who don't like/want to go to local bars. Location is not the issue. It's the manner in which anyone, male or female, expresses interest in another.

The OP brings up some great questions/scenarios, but it doesn't change the fact this is a platonic cuddling site, not a "how best for straight guys to not be awkward and confuse platonic intent with romantic intent" - like every other thread.

BigGuyGa

All humans should get individual bubbles and never communicate again.

littermate

Heh heh @Sideon