Cuddle = Something Else?

edited May 2020 in General

I recently matched with someone on a dating app who mentioned cuddling several times in their profile.

We started talking and, well, I’ll attach the conversation to tell the story.

So, if you talk with someone who you’re attracted you and you consensually agree to cuddling, does that mean that cuddling really means sex?

She did try to clarify that cuddling means cuddling with the option of sex, but then she turned it all around. It was just weird that she questioned the thought that someone might think cuddling meant sex, but then she said cuddling does mean sex right after that.

Is this a common thought process for women? If a guy says he’s down with cuddling, yet y’all never even discussed sexual activity, he still has to have sex with you, or at least keep it open as an option?

To clarify, I’m not talking about matching with someone at 1 a.m. and asking to hook up for “cuddles,” but having a legit conversation with someone over the course of days or longer, and eventually planning to meet to cuddle. To me that doesn’t automatically mean sex...

Comments

  • [Deleted User]SanFranResident (deleted user)

    A dating site is different from this site. With someone you met on a dating site, chances are very high that if she says "I just want to cuddle", what she really means is "I'm going to test the waters when we meet to see if I get turned on and want sex, but I don't want to just say outright I want sex until I meet you, because maybe I won't when we meet."

    But this site is not like that.

  • Suggestion to take that person's photo down and repost again. Feels like a breach of her privacy to have her image all up here when she didn't put it in.
    I think a lot of people get confused feelings about cuddling and sex and how separate they are. I think many of us were trained to associate physical connection with sexuality.. we live in a hyper sexual world and get hit with messages during phases of our life where touch is meant to be innocent.
    Training in consent can help both you and strangers you're dealing with work on boundaries. A lot of people who weren't raised as men have had too many experiences where hyper sexualizing became expected, and it could just as easily be a coping mechanism as an inappropriate assumption so you could be benefitting the world by sharing those skills. There are cuddle consent workshops you can look into sometime, or just maybe write in and ask for the guidelines or a one-on-one consent zoom workshop maybe????

  • edited May 2020

    Fixed the images.

  • Why should I have to attend a cuddle consent workshop, when I only want to cuddle and do not consent to having sex with someone who says they want to cuddle with me?

  • [Deleted User]Sunflowerfield (deleted user)

    "Cuddling" is often a euphemism for other activities on dating sites, so I would clarify that you are looking for platonic/non-sexual cuddles if that's your goal on there.

  • It’s definitely something that would be considered one and the same on dating sites.

    And it’s not just women that think that way. It’s a natural and completely normal thing to assume cuddling could lead to sex when you’re on a dating site and looking for something intimate.

    Also, she probably said that she can understand why that scenario would be assumed as cuddling=sex because you quoted the word cuddling. If you quote it like that, I would assume that’s what you meant as well. To be honest, she seems like she’s right on board with the same feelings you have that it’s weird people assume cuddling means sex. The only time she said otherwise was when you quoted the word cuddling.

    I’ve known plenty of people that actually feel more comfort in cuddling someone they are attracted to. That attraction doesn’t have to mean sexual. Some do. Some don’t. That’s up to you.

  • I think we all have to recognise the "standard" use of words, and be specific when we intend otherwise.

    On this site, "cuddling" means "platonic cuddling", so we typically omit the adverb/adjective ; but in other situations, it is probably necessary. I'd say it is probably unfair to say "cuddling" on a dating site, when one means "platonic cuddling" ; in the same way that if I see "burger" on a McDonald's restaurant without an adjective , I'm going to assume it means "with meat".

    @SanFranResident
    I agree on that one. People very rarely make an absolute commitment to having sex on a specific future occasion, and most of the females probably want to give the impression that they have somehow been "won over" instead of being a sure thing. They will often say "maybe", which means "And if I decide it's happening, you'd better be up for it".

  • I think cuddling should only be assumed to be platonic on this website. Not any other website, not even other cuddle websites.

    But i also think on dating sites people use all sorts of euphemism’s to get to what they are really talking about.

    Kinda testing the waters to see the response.

  • edited May 2020

    @quincyq03, sorry.. you shouldn't have to attend anything. I was thinking it could only help you.. to better understand the way you want to navigate consent. Yeah, what everyone is saying on here is true for a lot of folks, but at anytime anywhere you can run into someone for whom it's not. You asked about women pushing agreements and boundaries, or confusing lines of cuddling and sex. You asked about their thought process.. I was letting you know where I'm coming from. I've been a person who didn't know how to unblend those lines because of problematic sexuality I grew up with in this culture. Many women were trained in a hyper sexual world where people who want cuddles sometimes have been asked in exchange for sex.. that's a painful condition I've heard many many women speak of. Not everyone, I'm not trying to be paternalistic, but I know that men who have given me space I wasn't able to get to, to not be sexual.. have helped me heal quite a lot. I thought, maybe it could help you, but in regard to their mentality, that kind of self mastery and ability to communicate those differences and your aggreements could also help women who maybe aren't holding that as a line because to imagine only cuddling was not an option for them. You could liberate someone?
    You asked about the thought process of women, and that's a possibility there.
    You don't have to do anything, sorry if it sounded like I was coming from an authoritative place.. I just have attended them myself and learned quite a lot about myself and ways I could talk to someone about consent.
    This could also help you even if a woman you're dealing with is not coming from that kind of deficit, and just is in the culture of euphemism around it. I'm thinking of one situation in particular where I started dating someone and only wanted to cuddle, and he was breaking boundaries, and all I said was "We agreed not to." and he was like "You're right." and that was that. And I didn't have that in my portfolio before those workshops.

  • There appears to be an awful lot of generalization here. Whether it's "men" or "women".

    We're not 25-30 anymore. Most of us realize now there's vast differences between temperaments. At the very least we should differentiate between psychopaths, sociopaths, narcissists and neurotypicals.

    And even within those narrow groups, it's still hard to do more than just a couple generalizations.

    For me personally, cuddling means cuddling. That's it. Doesn't in any way, shape or form imply anything sexual.

    But, I can totally understand that lots of other temperaments cannot begin to fathom how it could possibly be anything else. I just don't hang out around those people anymore, I filter all my friends primarily by temperament.

    It's an utter waste of breath trying to explain something to a sociopath, psychopath or a malignant narcissist.

  • @Siberian76
    "an utter waste of breath trying to explain something"
    That's a useful life lesson.

    I remember a lawyer being told by a judge "I can't hear you" ; not because they were speaking too quietly, but because they weren't properly dressed.

    I have often made the mistake of thinking that people don't understand me, because I'm not explaining the situation clearly ; when the reality is, that understanding the situation would force such a change of their behaviour, that they can't allow it.

    A person who buys child pornography ( ivory sculptures etc. ), might reasonably argue that the abuse has already occurred, so there is no harm in circulating the images. They won't want to accept that their actions will "support the industry", thereby increasing the risk of future abuse ; because doing so would ( create a mental conflict which would ) stop them doing, the thing they want to do.

    If A complains to B, that B's actions have harmed them in some way ; B may well try to avoid taking responsibility for their actions, by saying that A is too sensitive. A might try to give evidence that they are not more sensitive than average ; but if B doesn't want to believe it, they won't.

  • I have sometimes felt just a little peckish, so decided to eat just one biscuit ; but then realised I was in fact very hungry, so ate the whole packet.

    I guess human relationships can be like that ; we genuinely only want one thing, but then realise we are actually hungry for a lot more. If there is only one biscuit available ; it might be best to not eat it, in case that makes things worse.

  • Cuddles does not mean sex; of course to someone it doesn't necessarily take sex off the table, but cuddles are cuddles, otherwise people are misusing the term or creating ambiguity or code words when someone may not understand what they're reading.

    Generally I've seen most women on sites mean "cuddles" as cuddles, sometimes with sex as an option, and sometimes with it meaning exactly sex (or both).

    So it's a little complicated, but I'm surprised she said she thought cuddles from a woman generally meant "with the option of sex" or "sex". Maybe I don't understand the dating sites or the cuddle sites... but I don't start off thinking cuddles means the option of sex or sex. I literally think of them as cuddles. People may mean different things or decide they mean other things when they're in the moment (or see someone sexually attractive), but I'm never going to assume that cuddles means sex (or the option of sex) and sex means cuddles, it's just too much assumptive accident-causing.

    So ultimately people need to clarify when they mean something other than what they say. I think we can all do that.

  • I think too often the phrase "You misunderstood me", is a cover for either "I misled you" or "I changed my mind". The key skill is to be adaptive, and not rely too much on things going how you expect at the outset ; continuous communication is probably best.

  • [Deleted User]SanFranResident (deleted user)

    @davebutton "So ultimately people need to clarify when they mean something other than what they say. I think we can all do that."

    While in general I'm all in favor of clear communication, I honestly think some amount of ambiguity is healthy and necessary. When people say "I want to cuddle" when they're actually hoping for sex, it's because either

    1. they don't want to commit to sex before they're 100% sure they want it, and/or
    2. they don't want to overplay their hand in case the other person isn't interested, which would potentially cause awkwardness and/or hurt feelings.

    And really, this is perfectly reasonable.

  • First you are dealing with a dating site...that implies you want to date...dating many times, not all, leads to sex.

    Then you ask " Is this a common thought process for women? " That is like asking if all US citizens have a gun (I am a traveler and I am asked that). You have to take each woman as her...you can't have a blanket thing for every woman...are you the same as every man in all aspects? Have you known all women to be the same ever? I doubt it. She is probably a people pleaser that is nervous, trying to please, but wanting to have options. And I don't know for sure as I haven't asked her why she is going back and forth..which might be a good question or even better. "what do you want it to be? cuddling only or cuddling with the option for sex"? That would be the best option.

    You say... "If a guy says he’s down with cuddling, yet y’all never even discussed sexual activity, he still has to have sex with you, or at least keep it open as an option?" This isn't true. It could be how a man feels. Many young women don't know how to speak their truth and say "hey, I want to cuddle, no sex. If we decide we want sex we'll arrange for it next time".

    The way I do cuddling on here or on a dating app to keep everything clear is this...meet at a cafe, see if there is comfort and safety and resonance. If we are both a hell yes, we discuss exactly what we want in cuddling with no hidden agendas. Then if we are both a hell yes to the agreement, we do only that. If we want to expand the boundaries, we talk about it before we cuddle again. And we only do what both are a hell yes to. And we both are allowed to tighten the boundaries but not expand them at any moment.

    This stops all confusion. Good luck

  • @CuddleMeYummy
    I agree that the choice of venue, is a good way to make a statement about the boundaries on a specific occasion. If people meet in a café, it is impractical for them to have sex there ; so choosing or agreeing that venue, gives a strong message that sex isn't expected, at that meeting.

    It isn't guaranteed, because one or both of the people might live / have rented a hotel room nearby, and suggest going there ; but it does provide an emotional "fire break", compared to if the people had met at that home / hotel room.

  • edited May 2020

    I second @CuddleMeYummy 's approach: "...see if there is comfort and safety and resonance. If we are both a hell yes, we discuss exactly what we want in cuddling with no hidden agendas. Then if we are both a hell yes to the agreement, we do only that. If we want to expand the boundaries, we talk about it before we cuddle again. And we only do what both are a hell yes to. And we both are allowed to tighten the boundaries but not expand them at any moment."

    That's my approach as well with people and I ask it of who I'm connecting with to be really clear about what we want, knowing we can always tighten the boundaries after talking about it. And agreeing that if we want to try something else wait for another time to talk about it rather than breaking our own guidelines in a moment. This can mean two people want to be able to (example preCovid) go for a walk and not go home the first day, or want to go for a walk with the possibility of cuddling that day. The limit comes with the expressed boundary.

    I've broken some of the cuddling vs erotic line with people on the phone (Yes, I know.. CuddleComfort users do not ever talk about or do more than cuddling. This a pure pure place, it's not even a business that is designed to make money and protect customers.. nothing creepy happens here from this site.. check the terms and conditions that list ALL the security and safety guidelines to show how upright this all is here).. I digressed.. I've blended that particular line of cuddling/sexy talk personally with someone I've felt safe with, expressing that I'm don't mind talking sexually as a potential as long as my expressed boundary to chat in ways that felt non exploitative are upheld.. not all lines are between cuddling/sex in the realm of physicality/talking about physicality. There are lots of people on here who have approached me for "innocent" cuddling who made me feel like a commodity or object. Everyone has their own lines that they get to express. And the ability to tighten boundaries is paramount.

  • edited May 2020

    @SanFranResident - I think that the idea that people might move through different personal agreements and be fluid about what they want does not contradict @davebutton 's note that we need to clarify for each other what we mean.. which we still kind of need to do in your scenerio. We can clarify as things unfold..where we are at now vs yesterday. What you didn't mention in your post was that verbal communication and consent are how we do this.
    It might be a bit sad that that's an important piece, but relying on other means of communication has noooooooot been ok and the burden of those misunderstandings outweigh any benefit that could be garnered by people thinking they don't have to talk it out. And as @CuddleMeYummy said, that is best done in an environment that for each person fosters their best thinking and a mutually empowering outcome.

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