Turning down a professional cuddler

edited May 19 in General

Hey, I recently came across a reddit post about a guy that was going to higher a professional cuddler but decided against it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/1quda9/turned_down_a_professional_cuddler/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

"I have been closely examining my motivations for this. It's true that there's loneliness. There's a void. But then, I hit upon this question - if touch is truly what I want, why am I looking for this experience from a woman? Why can't I ask one of my guy friends to simply give me a hug?

I'm 24 and I have spent the last several months working on my sexual weaknesses. There was a time when I suffered from a porn viewing habit. I was once on the verge of paying an escort for sex. It has taken much work to dig myself out of that hole and get to my present position, where I am rather stable. Truly, my goal is to find a great girl and eventually marry her. The reason I'm reaching out to anonymous strangers over the internet in this way, is because that goal has not made great progress.

In seeking to cuddle with you, I've realized that there is an undeniable sexual element to my motivation. The fact is that I'm looking to cuddle with a woman I find attractive. Subconsciously, what I'm seeking is touch, yes, but not just any touch - an attractive woman's touch. A soft touch, that my mind will associate with sexual gratification, even if that doesn't actually happen during our session.

I've come to believe my mind is playing a trick on me by rationalizing that cuddling with you can be in no way sexual, when in fact that is its primary motivation. And given that I find you attractive, there is no way that my mind will be clear of all sexual thoughts and image making if we were to meet for a session.

I believe that puts you in an unfair position. Your stated goal is to spread comfort and touch. It is not to cater to my sexual weaknesses.

I hope you understand. I apologize for wasting your time. I wanted to send this to you soon before you took the trouble to come all the way here."

I dont agree that cuddle is inherently sexual and I personally had successful platonic cuddles due to sites like this one. However, he makes good points about wanting an attractive female cuddler, what would you guys respond to this. Is there anyone that disagree or agrees with this post?

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Comments

  • If a person always associates touch with sexual gratification, then touching a person of the same gender, will simply be associated with homosexual gratification.

    Touching an animal, would be simply be zoophilic sexual gratification.

    Perhaps the poster should try to wean themselves off the idea that touch is always sexual ; and maybe hire an escort, to not have sex.

  • Ultimately I think the poster you link to is seriously overthinking the situation, and probably you're overthinking it a bit too. Being attracted to someone you're not going to have sex with is not a huge problem. It's fine; it happens all the time. It's OK if your cuddler is attractive, and nobody requires you to 100% banish any hint of sexual thoughts from your mind.

  • edited May 19

    This guy thinks.. let's see. Seems like the reddit person thought out his process and came to a conclusion that felt right to him at the time. Also sense codependence, which I have as well.. not sure there's a need to communicate that to the professional, especially if she's not getting paid, it might be traumatic to hear someone say A) I'm sexualizing you and B ) I'm not going to pay you because my sex drive and your appearance is a problem for your earning.
    I certainly hope that professional is earning good money with clients who don't bring this issue to her table.

    I've been through different relationships to my sexuality and I've had to navigate them thoughtfully or be more lax depending on what was right for me (and hopefully the other person) and sometimes I've been wrong about either or both. I'd never condemn a person for processing through things that are important to them, and think it might be a good idea to go to someone else other than whomever they are not paying.. if it were a therapist, she'd have been paid for that discussion.

  • @BooksnTeas
    I agree, the guy should have paid at least for the minimum time of a session. He benefitted from the discussion, and her availability.

    He could even have met her, in public, to have that conversation.

    He could have met her several times, always in public ; to disconnect the idea that being physically close to a person one finds sexually attractive, even means touching them.

  • The reddit guy's tactic seems more calculated than self-deprecating, and ultimately it looks like he chickened out and didn't want to follow through because he didn't trust that he could control himself. His communication attempt and self-awareness would be small comfort to a professional who probably didn't have time to make other arrangements to cover for his last-minute cancellation.

    I'm not arguing or defending anyone's desire to cuddle someone they find attractive. His "sexual weaknesses" comments make it clear he has no clue what platonic cuddling means. Maybe in time he can learn, but it's too bad he had to inflict his angst on the professional.

  • The Reddit poster speaks truth for the majority of men with normal libidos, straight and gay. In my humble, typically spot-on opinion of course.

  • edited May 19

    Sounds like this person isn't looking for platonic cuddling. I don't think the issue is that it's women who he's looking for. Though that perhaps he's sexualizing women in more or less their entirety, failing to recognize all the other things women can offer besides being just for sexual attraction. And perhaps he isn't at a stage to manage that about himself. I wonder if he is really sexually, equally at a high rate attracted to EVERY non family member women out there? Even if yes, then, he possibly still* has a chance to platonically cuddle with women.

    Maybe he has other root issues that he needs to work through, in order* to allow himself to not run away from getting some of the comfort that a part of him seeks. Or perhaps, he feels that he has to have it all, or none.

    Furthermore, I think he is too concerned with the thoughts and feelings he has at the thought of cuddling with someone who he finds attractive. Rather than what he chooses to say, and do while cuddling.

    If he wants the platonic touch of a woman, than he will need to find it within him to allow that for himself. Having nonplatonic thoughts and feelings about someone doesn't have to make him not want to be platonic with them. So long as he is respectful of the person's boundaries.

    If for whatever reasons such feelings are unrequited, then one can make the decision for themself to continue looking for others who reciprocate that. While in the meantime learning to get over the often superficial thoughts and feelings that come along with cuddling with someone he is superficially into.

  • edited May 19

    Having went to the link now, I saw that it was in a "nofap" subreddit, which leads me to believe that maybe he thought cuddling will be a trigger to his mission to nofap. Though I think sexual excitement can happen even if with someone we aren't attracted to at all, or even if staring at a splash of paint dry. Or a chicken crossing the road. What I mean is, I don't think it's just about being sexually attracted to someone, if we can manage well our sexual excitement all those other times, then why can't one during and after a cuddle with someone they fancy?

    Reminds me of those boner threads.

    As for the time waste, I agree, I think like some said, he should've at least paid half. Unfortunately some in that post seem to be taking nonsense and acting like the professional cuddler is obligated to invest in more and act like an unpaid therapist. "Or she's uncaring". Edit: I think that's unreasonable! Especially after her time was wasted.

  • @Lovelight
    "Having nonplatonic thoughts and feelings about someone doesn't have to make him not want to be platonic with them. So long as he is respectful of the person's boundaries."

    Indeed. We are what we do.
    Some people argue that avoiding triggers is a bad way to beat an addiction, because those triggers will come along sooner or later and we are then unprepared to resist them.

    Most people have spontaneously smiled at the memory of some funny event or joke, even if that was triggered from a train of thought about something serious. Sexual thoughts can be the same.

    I read up some "nofap" links on Google, and one claimed "benefit" is that it increases one's testosterone and one's motivation to seek out a physical sexual experience. It seems that would increase the risk of inappropriate behaviour and boundary pushing ; like not eating one's own food, would increase the risk of taking someone else's. I'm not sure how that community regards sex with a professional ; is that "good", or simply paying someone else to do "bad" ?

    The slang term for someone who takes care of their own sexual desires, is one of the strongest male insults, implying that one cannot find a partner to do that. However, is that behaviour as bad as someone who doesn't take such care, but instead allows their high testosterone level to make them misinterpret situations and force boundaries in order to achieve it ? Which would females be more comfortable around ?

    Try this quote from Julius Caesar, talking about someone who went on to assassinate him :
    "CAESAR
    Let me have men about me that are fat;
    Sleek-headed men and such as sleep o' nights:
    Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look;
    He thinks too much: such men are dangerous."

  • P.S. This theme is explored in the movie "There's Something About Mary" ; when Ben Stiller's character is warned about going on a date, "carrying a loaded gun".

  • I think what he did was amazing, and very self aware in that situation.
    @SanFranResident - It said he had a porn viewing habit. Now, he doesn't go into detail, however there are people who end up watching hours a day... This is one of those cases where I think the whole "it's fine if you find then attractive", may not have been ok for their situation.

    @geoff1000

    If a person always associates touch with sexual gratification, then touching a person of the same gender, will simply be associated with homosexual gratification.

    It sounds like he's sexually attracted to women. it's possible he may be able to have platonic time with someone who's male, and assist in reprogramming his brain to realize... touch ≠ sex.

    @Mike102

    I dont agree that cuddle is inherently sexual and I personally had successful platonic cuddles due to sites like this one.

    I think this is that logic of an action itself is neither "right or wrong" "positive or negative", etc. It's all in the viewers mind, based on the information they have at the time.

    For some people who've never experienced actual platonic love / caring... Physical attention may just be about sex.
    This person may have had parents whom never gave them a hug... said I love you, etc. Never seen any of that sort of affection. And were never taught much in school... So... kid learns how "couples interact" from porn. (Which we ALL know how true those videos are ;)
    So, touching = sex.

    ~

    As for him wasting her time... shrugs in all honesty, In any line of work, you have the people who are like "I want this, with this... how much?" boom done. You have others that kick the tires, ask 101 questions. etc.
    We don't know how many emails have gone back and forth. However, if I got a reply like that, I'd give the guy kudos for being self aware and wish him the best. If I knew a good cuddler nearby that was male, I'd suggest them. Yeah, money is part of this whole professional cuddler thing, but we're here to help people. (Or at least, I'd hope that's why professionals do it).

    And I've had sessions with a guy who felt the similarly. (He gave me permission to share basic story, to support others). He wanted to feel cared for and supported, etc. but wanted to avoid the whole sexual nature behind things. He said it helped him slow things down for his next relationship, and focus less on the sex.
    ~
    Everyones different, with different needs / desires, with different s*** we've gone though in our lives... That was what was right for him, in that moment... and he had no negative intent. Better than ghosting her!

  • edited May 21

    I feel like I deal with clients like this ALL the time. They don’t know what they want, or they do, and it’s illegal and against site rules. They almost always waste my time by cancelling last minute, sometimes while I’m en route to their location, after confirming our session multiple times, even. I would almost prefer they would just ghost me early on.

    This man needs to hire a therapist, not a cuddler.

    I don’t care to hear about why you’re canceling and wasting my time, those cancellations and stories don’t pay my bills.

  • When I was a part-time taxi-driver, I would sometimes be told that the job was cancelled, when I pulled up outside the house.

    Other times people would come out of the house, say that I wasn't needed for the job after all, and pay me for the full journey.

    As @kat99 says, I've yet to find a shop which accepts apologies as payment for food.

  • @geoff1000 Imagine that you’ve cleared your schedule, showered, changed, applied makeup, all for someone to cancel because they can’t see you as a therapy provider, just sexual. It’s infuriating and it happens all of the time.

  • Last minute cancellations are just rude. Cancellations should be made at least 24 hours in advance, or more.

  • edited May 21

    I think one of the big things is, this isn't just a service like getting your tires changed. Their feelings and emotions are very much involved, and depending on the reason why they're looking... It may be a simple, or really complicated decision for them. (Example, a client who's been though years of physical abuse).
    If a woman was late, or had second thoughts about going to an abortion clinic... (I'd hope) people wouldn't just roll their eyes and give em heck. That's a massive decision. And for some people, being physically close to another human being is just as big. (and also, on the flip side, some people are just inconsiderate, and don't think of anyone but themselves. Mind you experiences like cuddling are there to support those types of people, to try to help them 'be with' and focus on another person.)

    I think the keys are, inquiring early on about what exactly they're looking for (and again if it's not what we do, resetting expectations. And not beating around the bush.)
    I'll often tell people "I know cuddling with someone you've never met can be a little bit weird, what questions do you have? (and there are no stupid / silly questions! Please ask! =)

    FYI, I'm not discounting that it would be incredibly frustrating, ESPECIALLY when travel is involved. That time / effort / gas wasted. We can't control other people, so just thinking of ways that we can control, and try to prevent it.

  • @Dante_S I think there’s a big difference between simply inquiring and saying you’re curious, because a provider can decide at that point if they want to engage and exchange free emotional labor while explaining things which can be googled, but on a personal level.

    I’m referring the the phenomena of clients saying they want a session, confirming a booking proposal, exchanging numbers, sharing their address, confirming before I take the time to get prepared, and then confirming with me before I head over. There’s SO many steps involved where they can back out, it’s just them being a selfish time waster that’s dishonest with themselves and their cuddle provider.

  • @kat99
    I'm just curious, for the ones that are just "hey, can I have a session tomorrow at 6pm", do you slow it down and inquire for what they're looking for? and make sure it's a good fit? Or just accept the booking?

  • edited May 21

    @Dante_S there’s so many variables involved in detecting a timewaster, I don’t even know where to begin.
    Typically, if someone books a day in advance, they’re less likely to cancel, but nothing is a sure thing.

    Are there steps to reduce the probability of cancellations? Sure. Are they failproof? Absolutely not. Will I be cancelled on, without a reschedule ever happening, having my time wasted on a regular occurrence, no matter how many steps of confirmation I go through? Absolutely.

    Personally, I won’t drive farther than 30 minutes for a session because of the potential waste of gas if they block me upon arrival, which has happened several times.

    Edited: some providers now even request a deposit because they are so tired of time wasters. And i get it. But if I were to require a deposit, I would never get any inquiries as it seems suspicious to most potential clients.

  • @kat99
    Oh 100%. You can't totally stop it. (Unless maybe you started requiring deposits, like some do)

  • I think this guy was beginning to have an honest conversation with himself about his root desire. It sounds to me he was questioning the reason he sought out a platonic cuddle. He honestly is telling us he thinks he really wants the sex on some level, but is actively looking to change those desires in himself.

    I believe I’ve questioned my intentions at times too. Not because i have uncontrollable urges, but just because i think visually i can get motivated sometimes. Put that together with physical contact and intention gets turned around, at least it can.

  • Then he should book a sex worker, not waste a cuddlers time. I don’t think you begin to have that conversation with yourself after confirming a booking confirmation, he probably realized he was barking up the wrong tree and there might be repercussions for his actions. Again, an explanation is not necessary if you decide to cancel. We simply do not care about your revelations in sexualizing us and all women.

  • edited May 21

    I don't think cuddling is inherently sexual or requires sexuality, but the way I feel is that many aspects of femininity are tied to my desire to be cuddled; softness, plushness, and nurturing. At the very base level it's a similar feeling to a pillow but the feeling from a woman is that they're warm and moving and have thoughts and feelings and can communicate. Not that I'd prefer a pillow that could do this.

    I've sort of had cuddle-ish situations with men (even been kissed by one), but there's too many things about men that repulse me to make me want to do a session with them.

    Because femininity for me is also related to sexuality (at least in a non-familial way), that component does come up (so to speak), but I've never felt the need to act on it or push it beyond someone comfort zone, and so far the women I've been with have made it apparent through various ways of communication where their comfort zone is (and if I'm not sure, I ask, even if it's not sexual). I used to feel a lot more sexual about it, but over the years I've just more wanted the compassion more than the passion.

  • @kat99
    I would recommend to anyone who is thinking of hiring a pro-cuddler, but is at all unsure, to book an hour in a public place, at their normal rate, just to talk things through. I think most pro-cuddlers would be happy with that ; and there is no "heavy" expectation on either side, so no reason for either party to have a sudden change of mind.

    When I did a parachute training course, the last item before the jump was a short video where we had to identify the different types of parachute malfunction. The instructor said that on one previous course, one of the trainees, having spent all day and over $100, said at the end "Thanks, but I won't be jumping after all" and just left.

  • edited May 21

    @davebutton it seems like you understand all the aspects of cuddling from a mature standpoint. Yes, feel-good chemicals are released. Yes, it’s intimate in nature. But that absolutely does not mean that your cuddler is reciprocal or even attracted to you, you know?

    If at any point during my sessions, my client gets an erection, they’re usually super apologetic and embarrassed. I give them space, I usually take a bathroom break. But then there’s the others, who grind it into me and ask if they can “lay on top of me” with a full pitched tent. That’s why you get your money up front, so you can leave.

  • Self awareness!

    Someone here said it, we are what we do... even if thoughts/feelings outside of platonic come up, we can get ourselves more into the habit of getting into cuddling with the platonic Intentions.

  • He may have enjoyed himself if he didn’t cancel. Maybe he is back to being addicted to porn and spending what he could have enjoyed on platonic cuddling with a pro on lubricant.

  • Ivan Pavlov conditioned his dogs to salivate when a bell was rung ; because they believed that food was imminent, and salivation is an important part of the digestion process, so it is helpful to "hit the ground running".

    It would probably take a while for such dogs to lose that response.

    Men may similarly need sustained "de-conditioning", before they can dissociate cuddling, or even the proximity of a female ; from the act of sex.

    My experience is that males with sisters are more emotionally balanced, probably because they have grown up with a similar-age female ; and hence interacted with them, before puberty awoke that intention.

  • edited May 24

    I think the poster is a pervert who wanted to share a dirty story with the other person. This is not a simple “I’m sorry I can’t meet.” He intentionally describes his pornography addiction only to share his filth. This is a dangerous individual who hides behind a I’m trying to be a good guy in hopes of an invite to try an help him. Very scary and crazy.

  • @geoff1000 those types of men need to stay far away from women, providers, and the general population until they sort themselves out with therapy.

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