@Aurora87 Your antibodies offer zero protection against the new variants that are more contagious, deadlier and are killing young people. If you want things to return to normal then people need to be vaccinated. If you want continued surges and a collapse of the healthcare system then don’t. Pretty simple.
@CuddleDuncan I hear you and I heard everything you said before. But the thing is that the vaccine didn't get tested enough to tell it's actually working...everybody who's getting vaccinated now is nothing more but a lab rat. Sorry but that's what it is. A vaccine usually takes up to 10-15 years research and testing before it get'S out to the public. We have viruses and diseases out there, way more deadly than Covid for many years, (no vaccine for them tho)...and studies actually say Covid is NOT a deadly virus...it depends on your previous condition. I don't know if you realize that after getting your 2 vaccine shots this is not the end...you will have to get the shots every year like the flu shot and it's not gonna be for free. That's not a one time thing...Corona been around for many many years...it's just that strain that's new. Looking into what's the vaccine is made of horrifies me, most don't even look it up they just trust it blind...it literally has the ability to change your genome over the next generations. (You know the thing that makes us human...) I'm not saying the vaccine is bad...everybody must decide for themselves what they put in their body. But it's discriminating when it becomes mandatory in order for you to do certain things...like working, shopping, traveling and so much more...some countries in Europe are on that point already...that's why people demonstrate.
Covid vaccines do not change people's DNA. Coronaviruses have been around, but Covid-19 emerged in 2019, with variants and mutations occurring since then. As for discrimination, Covid does not recognize nationality or borders - it is a world-wide pandemic, and the response to it must be global, which means masks, social distancing, and vaccinations.[-Sid]
@Aurora87 - you are welcome to your opinions, but you may not spread misinformation and false statements. Do not comment further on this thread, and do not engage with @FunCartel further. [-Sid]
@FunCartel your vaccine offers zero protection against the new strains as well...now what? It's already proven that the vaccine doesn't have an effect on the new strain and they need to develop it in order for it to work. So what you're trying to tell me now is pointless. Things won't get back to normal...Covid is here to stay, just like the flu.
Pfizer has shown effectiveness against various strains. Your statement is not fact nor correct. [-Sid]
@CuddleDuncan I'm European...born and raised, I know the laws and Democracy. And that's maybe how it works in the UK without asking the public but not in other European countries people actually have to vote for a new law before it get's implemented. But they didn't ask us this time... It's not A LAW to wear a mask...it's a temporary restriction. But regardless...We use our right to speak up and go against it...and I hope we will win.
@Aurora87 You are wrong. So far the vaccines have proven to be effective against the new variants. I have no idea who you are getting your information from. Yes Covid is here to stay but whether we go back to normal depends on herd immunity. But stop spreading misinformation.
https://www.umms.org/coronavirus/covid-vaccine/facts/strain#:~:text=Do the Vaccines Work Against,to the current vaccines.
The vaccines ARE effective.
I'm not a virologist or biologist or whatever. But from what I hear, covid antibodies from the vaccine, as well as antibodies occuring from a previous infection, do offer partial protection against new strains but the science is currently being updated so I don't know what the most accurate information is yet.
It is true that vaccines take a while to research, this one seems like it was pumped out faster than normal. But the deathrate of vaccinated individuals vs. unvaccinated individuals kinda speaks for itself. Since COVID causes a very bad reaction in many people, this is why the vaccine is recommended (it's safer than getting COVID). Ideally we wouldn't have either, but to fully open back up we will have to choose something.
mRNA vaccines are considered safe by the scientific community, but those uncomfortable with that can opt for the viral vector kind.
@Aurora87 What exactly would "we win"? Catching a virus that could be prevented with some simple steps is considered by some to be a door prize?
But the thing is that the vaccine didn't get tested enough to tell it's actually working.
Yes they did. For example the Pfizer Stage 3 test results with over 43,000 participants were published in November.
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine
Almost 1 billion doses of vaccine have now been administered. Any remaining 'lab rats' are volunteers, like @Sideon.
Remember that the covid vaccines were 80% complete before they started making them, because they are so similar to existing vaccines.
Pfizer, AZ and Moderna are all fully approved in the UK. The process has been speeded up adminstratively a great deal, but there were no shortcuts taken on clinical processes or safety. It is the case that the subsidiary studies have not all yet been done, for example on specific groups like pregnant women.
you will have to get the shots every year like the flu shot
This is certainly possible. We simply don't know yet.
it's not gonna be for free.
It will be in the UK.
it literally has the ability to change your genome over the next generations.
This is simply not true. From what I can figure out, this particular item of disinformation is based on confusion between the DNA of the virus, the 'DNA' of the some vaccines, and the DNA of the recipient. I have Flagged your post.
But it's discriminating when it becomes mandatory in order for you to do certain things.
No it isn't. Discrimination is about treating people differently because of things they cannot change, like the colour of their skin. It is not about choices they have made. In any event, vaccine regulations are about public health. If you choose not to get a vaccine fine, but then you cannot behave in ways that are dangerous to the health of others. Choosing not to get a vaccine is like any other choice - you have to accept all of the consequences.
Looking into what's the vaccine is made of horrifies me
Does this ingredient list horrify you? I can almost guarantee you have eaten this lot at some time.
Ethanol Propyl Acetate 2-Methylpropyl acetate Propanol n-Butyl acetate 2-Methylpropanol 2-Methylbutyl acetate n-Butyl propanoate n-Butanol n-Pentyl acetate 2-Methylbut-3-enyl acetate 2-Methylbutanol 3-Methylbut-3-enyl acetate 3-Methylbutanol 3-Methylbut-2-enyl acetate n-Pentanol n-Hexyl acetate E-Hex-3-enyl acetate Z-Hex-3-enyl acetate Hex-4-enyl acetate E-Hex-2-enyl acetate n-Hexanol Z-Hex-3-enol E-Hex-2-enol n-Hexyl-2-methylbutanoate n-Heptanol Camphor n-Octanol n-Oct-2-enol 1-Methoxy-4-(2 propenyl)-benzene
That list appears to be missing dihydrogen monoxide, which I suspect is the predominant one. Yes folks, it's an apple.
@sunnysideup The studies done on antibodies from a previous infection depends on the person. Some have only minute traces left after only 3 months. So they have said it is inconclusive and that essentially there is only a three month window for certain. But yes, the viral vector vaccine is an effective option, though thought to not be as effective as Moderna or Pfizer. But it is definitely more effective than relying on natural antibodies long term as that, as I said, varies widely from one person to the next as to how long they remain in the body and also how much of the original virus was ingested.
@FunCartel Like I said...most people believe media blind. I'm a healthcare professional for 15 years and been working close with research facilities and doctors for the past 5 years. I know the direct source of my informations, do you? I never said that the vaccines aren't effective...but what I'm saying is that everybody should be more cautious about what they put in their bodies. And people who have Antibodies are actually at least partially immune against the new strains but then again it depends on your previous condition.
@sunnysideup the death rate speaks for itself? Really? Most people (mostly older ones) with a weak immune system died already or actually for the most part recovered, but for some reason nobody speaks about them. There is no prove that those who got vaccinated would have died if they didn't get vaccinated...they most likely would still be alive even without the vaccine....probably not even infected at all...less than 1% of the world population got infected with covid before the vaccine. And back to FunCartel...whoever told you about herd immunity, but herd immunity is given when over 60% of the population are immune. Usually 50% to 90% of a population needs immunity before infection rates start to decline...we are super far from that since the infection rate is still under 1%. The infection rates got lower over the past weeks but I doubt it's because of the vaccine but that's open for discussion since there is no prove for that as well.
You did state in various ways on this thread that vaccines are not effective. The deadliness of Covid versus the flu have been well documented and peer reviewed and is not up for debate. [-Sid]
@Aurora87 What kind of healthcare professional are you? An RN? An MD? My cousin is a frontline doctor and she says anyone who spouts the kind of misinformation you are talking about needs to come to the hospital and watch someone die from this. @CuddleDuncan is absolutely correct, the research and trials on this have been going on for several years. For a healthcare professional you seem to be missing a lot of data. My aunt is an ICU nurse—again the information you are spouting—that it is not deadly, the vaccines did not go through much study, that they alter your DNA—is the kind of nonsense that drives them crazy. You can say what you will and you do not have to get the vaccine, but stop spreading lies.
Also your numbers are wrong. The world has about 7.5 billion people and there have been nearly 150 million cases. That is 2% but that is a classic tactic of those who wish to downplay the severity of the pandemic. It is easier to swallow the 2% rather than the 150 million. If we choose to ignore masking, distancing and vaccinations then we can all enjoy the freedoms India is experiencing right now as that is what they chose.
@CuddleDuncan Now can you also tell me where all these ingredients are coming from and what exactly they do to your body? Like every single one? dropping a list here where most don't even know what is what might appear smart of you but nobody is smarter now than before. You all seem so defensive...I never said I'm against the vaccine...I never said it's not working...I never said you all have to feel the same way or have to change your minds...you believe what you wanna believe, as long as it makes you happy.
Discrimination is not only about things you can't change. But that's another topic.
There is no prove that those who got vaccinated would have died if they didn't get vaccinated
The studies with that proof are starting to come out. For example
An analysis by Public Health England (PHE) exploring the impact of COVID-19 vaccines on mortality has found that, from December 2020 to the end of February 2021, England’s COVID-19 vaccination program prevented 6100 deaths in individuals aged 70 and older.
https://www.technologynetworks.com/biopharma/news/new-data-suggests-uks-covid-19-vaccination-programme-has-prevented-thousands-of-elderly-deaths-347228
@FunCartel I've seen people dying more than you can imagine...I'm a head nurse and RN on ICU. Then again...what misinformation are you talking about? I never said that people didn't die from it. I get it...you believe what you wanna believe but so do I. All type of information drive people crazy...I said nothing more but to be more cautious about what you believe the mass media and government tells you. That's all. I'm not spreading lies...I just say what I researched and what people and professionals told me and you pretty much do the same thing, your informations just seem to be different to mine.....but am I accusing you of lying? No I don't.
@Aurora87 At least @CuddleDuncan is supporting his facts with references and I did as well with the vaccines being effective against the new variants when you said they weren’t . Where are you getting your facts?
@CuddleDuncan AGAIN...I never said that the vaccine is not working. Good God...you fight me as if I'm telling you the vaccine is a hoax lol...I've seen it working, I know what it does and to many people this seem to be the right way. But from my own experiences I know that you can prevent covid death in many ways other than the vaccine. The therapy is just more elaborate.
@Aurora87 You made the claims that 1. The vaccines affect your DNA (myth... debunked several times) 2. Covid isn’t a deadly disease (myth) 3. That the vaccines aren’t effective against new variants (I posted one widely respected source saying they are) 4. That are rights are being taken away (there have been several congressional laws such as the Public Service Act of 1944, the Prep Act and several others that give government powers to shut the country down in times of medical emergency if it deems necessary) if you think your rights are being taken away then consider that you never had them to begin with in the case of a public health crisis.
@FunCartel I'm not taking my facts from websites that can easily get manipulated and are part of mass media. Everybody can do that...that's too easy
@Aurora87 Then we must assume your “facts” are purely anecdotal and your opinion because even the written word from research, symposiums and textbooks are archived on line.
So a research University medical school is manipulated? Then how did you learn your health skills? Through trial and error? Because my source was a research hospital.
There aren't any restrictions on human rights as a result of COVID. The privilege of the individual is taking a backseat the the rights of the many. That's a very different thing.
@MaullySterling Well said
@FunCartel Please...prove to me (not from some mass media websites) that 1. the vaccine doesn't affect your Genome 2. Covid is deadly. And don't tell me people died from it...so do people die from other virus that are officially not deadly, again it depends on your previous condition. "Most people infected with the COVID-19 virus will experience mild to moderate respiratory illness and recover without requiring special treatment. Older people, and those with underlying medical problems like cardiovascular disease, diabetes, chronic respiratory disease, and cancer are more likely to develop serious illness. (they don't talk about death, even tho it can happen, but unlikely in most cases) 3. you might have a point here and I apologize, I reacted that way because you said antibodies from a previous infection aren't effective against new variants...which is not true. 4. Are you German or European (not UK)? Do you know about our Law System and our rights? Have you been longterm living in any European Country? I was always talking about Europe and not the US.
@Aurora87 Yes, you did say covid isn’t deadly and why I asked you to present your evidence:
studies actually say Covid is NOT a deadly virus.
Your words
@MaullySterling I didn't say there restrictions just yet...but a lot of people know it's coming because of decisions that where made and they fight against that. We have a history of this type of events and experienced sings of undergoing human rights to now be able to better identify them. You don't have to understand that since most of you here haven't been through this to learn from it. We just simply have a different mindset when it comes to human rights after WW2.
Here is my citation for the vaccine not affecting your genomes:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html
You have yet to offer a citation for the rest of my assertions. As far as human rights—Maluku, who is Canadian I believe said it correctly.
And how were we to know that your human rights statement was originally intended for Europe when your profile says Miami and Mexico City?
OMG @FunCartel you really like twisting things just to stand in a better light it seems. I definitely didn't become a nurse by studying things from websites. neither do other professionals become professionals that way...you become a professional by a combination of 20-30% theory and 70-80% practice. You're getting very insulting here. So everything that is not online is not true? alright, get it
@FunCartel yes and I say it again...it's not a deadly virus otherwise I wouldn't be here talking to you because I had it. Look it up...ask google or whatever...it will tell you the same thing. Only (less than) 1% of those who got infected died which officially doesn't make it a deadly virus. It is bad that people died and I'm deeply sad about this, again I've been facing death multiple times during this times but over 99% recover...99% against 1% = not deadly!!!
Wow on your reasoning that no one died from Covid. By your logic no one ever died from AIDS either—it was all overblown cases of pneumonia. People die from a lot of little things caused by something larger. My dad had a cancerous tumor on his pancreas but was killed by a blood clot that broke away from the tumor so the death certificate says asphyxiation as the cause of death. BUT that never would have happened without the presence of the tumor. This is what a lot of people can’t wrap their minds around.
@Aurora87 I am saying that if you can’t produce some sort of citation I question your assertion that you went to any level of higher education where you have to support your claims. You seem incapable of that. I never said that the World Wide Web is the end all be all but you continue to spew theory as fact without support.
@FunCartel WHAT? That's not what I said...again I see you like twisting things and I'm getting tired of repeating myself. I NEVER SAID THAT NO ONE DIED FROM IT!!! In fact I said I've seen people dying from it, way more than you can imagine. But have it your way... #sigh