Heart Heavy Grievances About PERCEIVED Admin Power

sillysassysillysassy
edited August 2021 in General

I posted this earlier and Admin asked me to remove the dashes from the title because they might come off as provocative. I have NO DESIRE to let this be a public shaming or screaming shouting match. What I do want to do is give people the space to speak their opinions about ways the site can be improved alongside the moderator form that @mark recently implemented. Below was the initial thread posted that was immediately removed.

This is such a difficult thread to start and I want people to be kind and thoughtful.

My hope is for everyone here to be very respectful as well as be able to voice complaints so.... PLEASE stay on topic and NO SHADE or petty arguments. We all need to have some clarity around this if we are going to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

This last week brought about some very saddening circumstances and out of that @mark decided to change a few protocols surrounding the interaction of Moderators and the rest of the community. SPECIFICALLY the imbalance of power perceived between the basic community and administration. See https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/forum/discussion/11547/my-experience-that-hasn-t-sat-well-for-me#latest
I was thrilled at the immediate and sensitive response of our Moderators @squeakytoy and @sideon. Unfortunately for reasons somewhat unknown @squeakytoy has now decided to deactivate. From my perspective as a female enthusiast it was a very difficult situation and something like that has not happened in the time I have been here, which is a few years now. I love this community of people and I am very thankful for the platform that @mark created and envisioned surrounding the idea of platonic cuddles.

Unfortunately another incident happened just yesterday when @gary who is an Admin, posted some comments that seemed harsh and a bit uncalled for. He was calling a new member "hostile and cold" for her response to another male member. What is disconcerting is that now the comments have been removed. Quite a few people messaged me privately because I had been commenting in the thread at the exact time to see if they had not remembered things correctly. There were also posts in the thread asking @mark to check into things.

@pmvines wrote in "Gripes and Grievances"

Hmmm here is a gripe. I specifically remember yesterday reading a couple of posts where admin was getting onto a new site member for responding to someone in what most would consider to be a reasonable manner to another user who was messaging her and there was some discourse between admin and user for several posts . The new site uses said she didn't feel that admin was being appropriate with asserting himself and telling her how she should behave when men are pushy with her in their messages. Now today there seems to be no trace of this . Just vanished...

@CharlesThePoet said

I was troubled by that too, and then annoyed by the feeling that I shouldn’t call him out on it.

We are all hopeful that the leaders of this community are truthful and honest. We ask them to ban members who are acting outside of the site's rules. We ask that they remove profiles that are inappropriate so that our community can stay true to its intended course of platonic cuddling. We know that if we have a problem we can look to the administration to help us find a resolution. We believe that everyone who has been placed in a position of power has our safety and best interests in mind.

What is troubling me today is that this is the first time I am questioning that. When things are deleted by those in power (I am assuming @gary deleted his comments) I feel like there is an abuse of power and it makes me wonder what else might be happening that I can't see. I no longer feel like our info is safe if I can't trust those who are mitigating the site. I have struggled with this abuse of power throughout the course of my life and I know there are many others who struggle with that as well. From the beginning this community felt like something that was going to be different. It seemed as @mark had the intention to create a safe space for everyone. I am sad and like the title implies, my heart is heavy. Maybe the site is taking a new direction and hopefully that will be addressed by our leaders. Many people are talking about leaving the site altogether because of inconsistencies and double standards.

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Comments

  • MarkMark Mod
    edited August 2021

    Thank you for posting your candid views on this. I know you've always been supportive and this will be something I will carefully reflect on.

  • Lev136Lev136

    @sillysassy , thank you for your most recent posts...

    I don't really know much about what happened with @Gary , @SoulcuddlerZ and @squeakytoy but I hope they don't totally ruin the site. Cuddling has become a lifestyle for me and am enjoying it.

    Let's all try to be as civil as we can. Also, if something is personal, it might be best to take it up with the administration and let them try to handle it. Let's not try to call others out and create what might be nothing but rumors.

  • Lev136Lev136

    Also, who are the current moderators.

  • OhioMikeOhioMike
    edited August 2021

    @Lev136 i think you are a very thoughtful and positive contributor to the site. Thank you.

    I think the op point is admin power. Especially in forums recently. If the admin has all the power to make you go away or your thoughts in posts to go away, how can you take it up with them ? How can you trust them ? This is a problem I didn’t realize had gotten so disruptive. I don’t think @squeakytoy could ruin this site ever. The others you mentioned, idk. Lots of damage control to do….

  • [Deleted User]CharlesThePoet (deleted user)

    It really is troubling.

    Honest mistakes, or differences of opinion (so long as they remain polite and respectful) are normal, and fine.

    But when things begin to be swept under the electronic rug because of "optics"...

    Well, it's fair to say that I get enough of that from the governments and corporations that already have so much impact on my life. Having it happen on a platonic cuddling site with a strong and supportive community is disturbing, disappointing, and strangely ominous.

    If @Gary was not happy with his initial interaction and responses with the new member I think it would have been more appropriate, and less a seeming abuse of position, to place an edit into that post, rather than simply deleting it.

    I certainly understand the urge to delete. Who of us hasn't desperately wished for a "Rewind" button in our lives?

    But when in a position of authority, even in a cuddling community forum, I might suggest that an acknowledgement of error, followed with an apology, is a far better and more trust imbuing response than deletion, which is basically, "Move along, nothing to see here!"

    Simply my opinion.

  • quixotic_lifequixotic_life

    Premise for a Vox.com article: What is misogyny? How is it different from sexism? And why does the male-dominated status quo seem to persist?

    I too am really bummed about all this here and I'll explain later (it's been hard to write it up and I need more time).

    Until then, @sillysassy ~ Thank you for kicking things off for us. 💓

  • RezzRezz

    Just wanted to say I'll miss Squeaky. Her presence was silly, serious and her moderation here was always fair IMO. It was nice having a female moderator to approach about sensitive information you may not approach the male mods with.

    I hope @Mark and @Sideon can find a equally non judgemental and fair moderator to take her mouse ears.

    She will be missed here as a enthusiast, I always enjoyed reading her antics and silly interactions with others. I do hope she returns at some point.
    ʕ ꈍᴥꈍʔ

    I'll sit back and read what others have to say as it appears I missed most of what has created this shift in moderation and an exodus from some longtime members.

  • MCcuddles2MCcuddles2
    edited August 2021

    i'm going to miss @squeakytoy. she was an excellent moderator. I hope more female moderators are added to the team to maintain the balance she brought.

  • OhioMikeOhioMike
    edited August 2021

    I’m not even sure who are the mods today.

    After the soulz incident with the “paid in cuddle therapy arrangements “leaving me with an “icky “ feeling I still haven’t comprehended, I was extremely disappointed in the @Gary entrance into the forums. Right out of the gate that was a classic bull in the china shop situation.

    I agree @squeakytoy was an excellent example of Moderator work. @Sideon is another.

    @CharlesThePoet very mature , experienced, thoughtful comments …..My opinion……that’s what admin needs more than ever to strive for here.

  • MCcuddles2MCcuddles2

    I am also troubled by @Gary, first by his response to the @SoulcuddlerZ situation and now by the new things mentioned in this thread.

  • SitaRoseeSitaRosee

    Last night I received a message from Squeaky toy that mentioned “staying means enabling and upholding policies and decisions that I cannot agree with.” I’ve been wondering what is it she didn’t agree with and what could have been improved for her to feel comfortable staying. I feel sad, I barely ever speak on forums and the one time I do, all of this happened :(

  • RezzRezz

    @SitaRosee do not under any circumstance feel bad about speaking up. Things sitting under the surface need to be brought to the top for a reason. It could bring about change that majority were unaware needed to be addressed.

  • SitaRoseeSitaRosee

    @sillysassy have you ever thought about being a moderator? Since I’ve talked to you, I’m wondering if it’s ever crossed your mind. I think you’re amazing and kind, if that ever did occur, I feel we would be lucky to have you.

  • MCcuddles2MCcuddles2
    edited August 2021

    I also understand @Mark 's dilemma. Good moderators need an incentive to do their job especially if they are volunteers. I think the cuddle reimbursement thing he had figured out was genius, because it allowed him to compensate the mods while investing back into the ecosystem of CC. I think it's perfectly fine, but maybe the way @SoulcuddlerZ phrased it made it seem weird. without something like that in place, I imagine it creates even more difficulty to recruit moderators.

  • OhioMikeOhioMike
    edited August 2021

    @SitaRosee i can’t speak for @sillysassy in any way. Great person. Would be excellent moderator.

    I think a lot of these challenges could have been prevented by paying moderators and not in “cuddle therapy “ or some other trade situations. @MCcuddles2 i respectfully disagree. I think it’s not genius and hence we have problems here now.

    I also think as management they should not be allowed to have any private cuddling relationships with enthusiasts or pros here. I don’t think they should even have profiles or friends list or karmas. I know that might not sit well But think at your work. Can a district manager ask an employee out on a date. ? What if they say no? It’s standard management 101 today!

  • MCcuddles2MCcuddles2
    edited August 2021

    @OhioMike the ability to pay mods is highly dependent on the financial model of CC in it's current state and if it allows something like that. Like, maybe CC is a struggling business barely staying afloat?

    so if the choice is between volunteer mods that get compensated in creative ways vs not having the site at all, I choose the former.

  • OhioMikeOhioMike

    @MCcuddles2 i respectfully disagree . This post is about admin power Not about a financial plan. If anything business ethics alone dictate not to do this If you can’t afford mods then don’t have them. But to say “hey I can’t pay you in money but I can reimburse you with cuddling. Let me set that up for you “ ick and yuck 🤮

  • MCcuddles2MCcuddles2
    edited August 2021

    @OhioMike I guess I disagree. Financially compensating volunteers in the form of a "gift card" that can be used within your business isn't something I see a problem with.

    The soulcuddler situation was different because he used his power to make Sita feel like she had to cuddle him for free, which is not what I am talking about here.

  • OhioMikeOhioMike

    @MCcuddles2 this isn’t McDonald’s. These are real human beings with real feelings. I’m beginning to see why @squeakytoy deactivated. Sigh 😔

  • SitaRoseeSitaRosee

    @Envie thank you ❤️ Seeing as it wasn’t spoken about, I want to believe something good, something positive can come from this.

    I strongly feel like anyone who is seeking services from a pro, keeps it honest with her because it is her business. About what it is he’s seeking, as he’s visiting her profile and exchanging messages. Anyone. That includes EVERYONE. I don’t believe there should be a system, where those who sign up to work here, whether their paid by the owner of the website or not, how does that become the professional independent contractors problem to be the one who gets sent to him, because he can’t afford it, he needs it, he’s going through a hard time. You are asking for a random girl to be chosen, not getting paid, cause we are unaware, we’d be unaware that we are “chosen” for this individual to spend some time with him. Give him your time. That’s bs. Our time is precious too, we are also human. And don’t necessarily want to be trafficked by someone to please the needs of others.

  • MCcuddles2MCcuddles2
    edited August 2021

    @SitaRosee to clarify, of course you should be paid for your time, and a moderator using his perceived power to make you feel like you have to cuddle for free is slimy and wrong.

  • SitaRoseeSitaRosee

    I don’t wish for there to be a system like that. It may not sound messed up to you, but it is messed up to feel like any of that is somewhat ok or should be fine, no big deal. Screw that kind of mentality. It ruins individuals who go through traumatic experiences. And makes them feel like “geez maybe it is my fault.” When it isn’t them, there are predators in this world that love nothing more than controlling females. That is just wrong. We are the human race and should be more supportive than so quick to put another human down

  • SitaRoseeSitaRosee

    If the volunteers aren’t getting paid, why would they pay for their cuddle fees? Cause they might as well get paid if they are going to get sent money to pay for their sessions. Or how else are they getting free cuddles? I’ll speak of one, he used his power as admin to get his way ultimately.

  • MCcuddles2MCcuddles2

    yeah, I guess if they are getting sent reimbursement money, they might as well just get paid instead of having the stipulation to only spend it on the site.

  • OhioMikeOhioMike

    @SitaRosee Yes! Yes! Yes! 100 percent!

  • SitaRoseeSitaRosee

    When he said “I don’t get paid, but he does send cuddles my way” with a big smile. Hmmmm I had wondered is this why he insisted on meeting me? I couldn’t help but to feel like I was somehow chosen because of how friendly I am over all, my positive reviews. He figured I’d comply with his requests? I felt stupid at the time. I felt angry with myself. I had not felt that way with people who genuinely come to me for cuddles because they haven’t been watching me the way he was…

  • OhioMikeOhioMike

    I did a very amateurish google search in my little town and there are 20plus job openings for forum moderator with Amazon forum moderators leading the way. There are other companies I recognize but most I don’t. I’m confident Amazon has management fratinization policies in place The salary for these 20 plus job openings range from 25k to 50k plus. With average in my area 37k I was just curious how much money we are talking about vs the risk of sacrificing business ethics. 🧐

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    An ombudsman is needed for the site. Other sites have used ombudsmans. They are usually a volunteer position, third party, and unbiased. It removes the perception of the fox guarding the chicken coop. They examine the complaint, both sides of the story and how administration handled it. I think babichev would be wonderful for it. She is level headed and she always opines based on fact. I can’t think of a single person who doesn’t respect her.

  • Big_ChrisBig_Chris

    When you're a referee, you're not always right but you're never unsure.

    The mods here are our referees, and there is lack of solidarity between them. Worse, some actions taken are hidden away to avoid explanations. Worse still, some mods may have been complicit in abuse and if any action was taken, it was again done in secret.

    Now we have one mod stepping down in light of a controversial situation, much like a politician does to quietly avoid investigation. Another mod steps down, in protest but otherwise unclear reasons.

    Because of the lack of transparency, im inclined to believe that SoulZ was asked to step down to save face, get off without a blowup, and sqeakytoy couldn't be a part of it so she left as well. This is all speculation, but its most plausible to me.

    Honestly I don't think mods should be able to cuddle with pros, paying customers or otherwise. They hold a lot of perceived power. Power that is mitigated with oversight but the perception is there and this situation has reinforced it. I imagine myself as a pro, seeing a mod PM me about meeting. Already there is pressure to respond and say yes. What happens when they want more than agreed upon limits? Can that mod erase someone's forum presence without oversight?

    These are my opinions. Referees are sometimes wrong and people hate them for that but at least those people know the calls being made. I don't know the calls, and it's safe to assume they're bad.

  • LovelightLovelight
    edited August 2021

    @MCcuddles2 "Good moderators need an incentive to do their job especially if they are volunteers" "so if the choice is between volunteer mods that get compensated in creative ways vs not having the site at all, I choose the former."

    No, no, no. 😭

    First off, if someone needs reimbursement for it, they aren't volunteering. I have been a volunteer of a group for at least a few months now. And have volunteered a bit in another (didn't like the tone and way the admin came at me) so removed myself from mod as essentially told to by the admin (basically *"if you ain't gonna allow me to boss you around leave" *). Now in the good group, I never thought of demanding or asking for anything. If anything I thought of if I could do more to help. If someone is demanding that or requiring then they aren't volunteering. Helping, perhaps, not volunteer work.

    If by "creative ways" you mean, not being transparent with pros that this is something they are required to do

    (not that it is right to either and I still don't understand what @Mark meant by what he said, so I don't want to imply he meant that)

    for free for the mods to stay on the site... Then NO.

    @OhioMike I think it could be possible to find a way for mod/admin volunteers to also interact with members, while keeping it in check both sides. I don't know how now, though I think it's possible and either myself or others might figure something out. Maybe like... the 'end of their shift' or on days off, their profile returns to 'normal' and they must approach members the same way the rest are expected to. And there could be better ways to hold them accountable, so they don't misbehave out of feeling salty because they are told no.

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