I just wish the SW pros would stop using this site. I understand that they have fewer places to conduct business but those of us who are trying to make platonic touch a real and valuable skill are feeling the impact of having to state over and over that this is not SW. It is exhausting, I feel like I have to screen potential clients more now than I ever have. If someone is using this site for "extra" cuddles, please report them.
@Ennea2HugU
However, my life circumstances caused me unable to emotionally maintain a professional attitude. So I am back to an enthusiast/hobbyist.
Sending you a great big hug and a wish for all the safe and happy cuddles you can handle as an "enthu". This work is not easy and at best it can be both a blessing and a burden to take it on. I applaud you for being able to step back when you needed to.
I just wish the SW pros would stop using this site. I understand that they have fewer places to conduct business but those of us who are trying to make platonic touch a real and valuable skill are feeling the impact of having to state over and over that this is not SW. It is exhausting,
I love you @Mare_Bear Perfectly put. It is exhausting, and it's part of the reason I'm starting to move toward coaching as opposed to simply being a cuddler who holds people because it feels good. There needs to be a divide somewhere and it's sad that we need to make ourselves even more clinical in my opinion to differentiate.
I should add that in the UK sex workers have no difficulty in advertising, so there is no need for them to come here. The laws are complex, but it's not illegal in itself and the authorities take a practical view.
My second thought is that I have heard anecdotally that the reason many of the awkward clients are so awkward is because they don't know what the word 'platonic' means. Obviously, a grown adult who doesn't know that is the kind of person who has a lifelong commitment to not using a dictionary or admitting their ignorance. They don't know what the word means so they just ignore it and plough on, believing that their [false] assumptions are correct.
@CuddleDuncan as it should be. There's nothing wrong with the work between two consenting adults and making it illegal just makes everyone, involved or not, less safe. But that's another subject. 😆
@ubergigglefritz on that point, as on so many others, you and I entirely at one.
As far as this classification goes, I actually generally prefer C. For me what's nice about pro cuddling is that it's an easy way to meet and get close to women without the hassle that usually requires. I'm not interested in cuddling as therapy and the trappings that go along with that are a distraction at best.
@CuddleWho I agree with that. I haven't paid to cuddle since the virus and am not even sure when or if I will again, but when I used to cuddle I was just looking for someone to talk with and cuddle. Therapy is important for people looking for or needing that but I have no interest in it.
@snugbuddy
I was just looking for someone to talk with and cuddle.
That's all a Cuddle Therapist does. The difference is that, in my terminology, a Cuddle Therapist has more understanding of what these conversations really mean than a Cuddle Practitioner. That allows them to make the conversations more helpful for the client.
A Cuddle Therapist is also better equipped to deal with clients who have difficulties with touch. There don't seem to be many on this forum, but they are quite common. It's not especially rare, for example, for a client and a professional cuddler not to touch at all during a session.
If all you need is a chat and a cuddle, then of course a Practitioner or a Hobbyist will do the job perfectly.
Remember, cuddling is not about touch. Touch is a very important part of it, sure. But it's not about touch any more than driving a car is about sitting in a special chair.
@CuddleWho
the trappings
What trappings? I'm not sure what you're referring to.
@CuddleDuncan I encourage caution for everyone, even if they think all they want is "someone to talk to and cuddle." There is a lot I could say on the subject, and I'm unlikely to change anyone's mind, so I'll just leave it at that.
My other (somewhat related) wish is that if someone has a session with a professional with less experience, and either has a poor experience or an experience that makes them think it takes no skill, that they realize their experience may be more a result of the individual professional than a representation of all professionals... All professionals are different and there are good and bad examples of all categories of professionals. 😇 It's possible to have a very clinical session (good or bad depending on what you want), a very friendly session, a very disconnected session, etc, and those results can happen within all categories...
@Catloaf - thanks for the sweet words. @CuddleDuncan - right, cuddle therapy doesn't mean in a clinical setting, it means we have more training to handle situations that come up more than someone who is an enthusiast. It's still cuddling
@ubergigglefritz all true. I wish you would say it, I for one would like to hear it.
@ubergigglefritz
I encourage caution for everyone, even if they think all they want is "someone to talk to and cuddle."
I actually agree with this. There's a lot of bad or just oblivious cuddlers out there, people who would make things worse for someone in an emotionally vulnerable position.
Still, I want a cuddle session to feel more like I'm connecting with a friend than like I'm in a therapy session. In fact I would usually rather give emotional support than receive it. And I'm willing to put up with some occasional nonsense in order to find what I want.
Thank you @CuddleDuncan for posting your thoughts on this and for getting this discussion going; I personally have cuddled with 7 different people over the past four months, and they are all rather different from each other in style, experience, goals, and purpose.
There's a lot of bad or just oblivious cuddlers out there, people who would make things worse for someone in an emotionally vulnerable position.
Absolutely true.
Still, I want a cuddle session to feel more like I'm connecting with a friend than like I'm in a therapy session
In my experience, it is the Cuddle Therapist who comes closest to achieving this. A friend who's really good at listening, and understands, and is absolutely in the headspace of wanting to give unconditional support.
In fact I would usually rather give emotional support than receive it.
Yeah, that's one of my problems too. One of the commonest topics in my therapy group in fact. Affects a lot of people.
@NicoSnuggs, thank you, I appreciate your kind words. There is no doubt that every cuddle professional is different, indeed every session is different, because it's all so personal. It's that very diversity that makes it helpful to identify themes and patterns, and name them.
Forgot to say that I have met all the types of professional listed, with the exception of Q and Z.
Interesting, I've definitely met Q and Z also. Thing is, at least in my experience, Q (sex worker) cuddlers aren't really just purely escorts in disguise. I think they often do plenty of regular cuddle sessions, but opportunistically offer extras on occasion, either because a particular client is someone they would feel okay having sex with or just because they sense a money-making opportunity.
@ubergigglefritz @CuddleDuncan you got me wrong...I meant that those who offer sexual services might just be that desperate for money that they break those boundaries. I'm not talking about pro cuddlers doing this full time. In fact that's great...And I highly appreciate them.
@CuddleDuncan I'm confused...when I say MOST, I mean those who actually are easy to convince to do something against the rules. I'm not talking about pro cuddlers in general.
But thank you for the critic, I'll try to express myself better and more clear.
@European_Amazon ah yes, I see what you mean now.
@CuddleWho one of the boundaries I am struggling to distinguish is that between an Unprofessional who offers a mixture of cuddling and sexual services, and a Sex worker who offers a mixture of sexual services and cuddling. I have no direct experience of either.
Obviously there isn't a hard boundary, it's all shades of grey.
It was partly your experience of Z that made me include it.
I got confused between threads, so rather than start hacking them up I'll just copy in the relevant post here:
@CuddleWho wrote:
@CuddleDuncan I see, I guess you're referring to the categories from your other thread. While most people I've cuddled are C, I'd say the general description of "mainly motivated by money but also fairly positive about cuddling" actually applies across the board, even to D, Q, and Z cuddlers. (Not joking, I'm pretty sure even the cuddlers who stole from me actually enjoyed cuddling with me.) I've met one cuddler who very clearly did not enjoy cuddling her clients. Moreover she was 100% convinced that no cuddlers enjoyed cuddling. She was secretly a Q although I didn't realize it at first. I've met a couple others who I came to feel were actually fairly uncomfortable being physically close to me, but they put on a show of acting like they were okay with it. I'd say these were both Bs. To be honest while I understand the idea behind your categories I actually think most cuddlers don't fit cleanly into one category. Going by the descriptions you provided I'd say most cuddlers kind of overlap between 2 or 3 categories. Unfortunately I don't want to elaborate about what I mean publicly on this site.
@CuddleDuncan
I see, I guess you're referring to the categories from your other thread.
While most people I've cuddled are C, I'd say the general description of "mainly motivated by money but also fairly positive about cuddling" actually applies across the board, even to D, Q, and Z cuddlers. (Not joking, I'm pretty sure even the cuddlers who stole from me actually enjoyed cuddling with me.)
I've met one cuddler who very clearly did not enjoy cuddling her clients. Moreover she was 100% convinced that no cuddlers enjoyed cuddling. She was secretly a Q although I didn't realize it at first. I've met a couple others who I came to feel were actually fairly uncomfortable being physically close to me, but they put on a show of acting like they were okay with it. I'd say these were both Bs.
To be honest while I understand the idea behind your categories I actually think most cuddlers don't fit cleanly into one category. Going by the descriptions you provided I'd say most cuddlers kind of overlap between 2 or 3 categories. Unfortunately I don't want to elaborate about what I mean publicly on this site.
Types of cuddle professional (provisional, updated). Thank you everybody for your comments. I found this post unposted in my drafts, but I can't remember what I wanted to add so I'm just going to post it. Further comments very welcome, this is not the final word.
Note that these categories are determined more by the underlying attitude of the professional to cuddling, than what actually happens during a typical session. The category of a cuddler cannot be determined from their profile alone, their pre-session communication or even a single session; but only by their whole practice. Boundaries between categories are not hard and fast, or even well defined. All cuddle sessions and relationships are individual, so a professional cuddler may be or appear to be in one category to a particular client, and a different category to another client.
Types A - E are equally valuable in their own ways and all are essential to the cuddle community in its current form. Order of placement has no significance.
A ) Cuddle Hobbyist. Sees cuddling as a side-gig for a little bonus cash or just getting lots of cuddles. Fairly reliable and well-meaning, but may not really understand what they are doing. Often have only a brief profile, and often young. Hobbyists and its subcategories (see below) form the largest group of cuddle professionals in terms of the number of professionals, and probably the largest in terms of the number of sessions.
B ) Cuddle Opportunist. Is doing it for the money, pure and simple. A variant of the Hobbyist (above). Does not particularly care about cuddling or clients. May offer sexual services during the session for an additional fee, but does not offer sex itself and does not really see themselves as a sex worker. Usually a brief profile, possibly with a number of photos which are close to the boundaries of 'platonic'. One of the more common categories of professional cuddler in the USA.
C ) Cuddle Practitioner. May have completed a training course and commonly has a comprehensive profile. Competant and reliable professional with adequate boundaries, but doesn't have the depth of knowledge of a Cuddle Therapist (below). Frequently cuddles part-time but may be full-time.
D ) Cuddle Therapist. Probably has a background in a caring profession and is likely to have completed at least one training course. Their practice may be informed by psychotherapy or other therapeutic modalities. Can talk intelligently about issues like transference, is well-boundaried, and should provide a very safe and caring cuddle. Usually at least 25 years old, with a thoughtful and detailed profile. If they have been active on Cuddle Comfort for more than a few months, likely to have some good Karma.
E ) Cuddle Developer. Somebody who is in transition between categories (fairly common) or doesn't fit neatly into any one of them.
F ) Cuddle Unprofessional. Another variant of the Hobbyist (above), but is completely unsuited to professional cuddling (or indeed any personal service industry) and has has no concern for clients whatsoever. Likely to have little or no written profile and be living a somewhat chaotic lifestyle. Unboundaried. May not return messages, block you without reason, cancel without notice, turn up drunk, fall asleep for the whole session, engage in sexual activities (with or without an additional fee) or sexually assault the client. But on a good day, may provide a decent service. This is the category that gives rise to many of the complaints on the forum.
Q ) Sex Worker. Offers some combination of cuddling, massage and sexual services. Shouldn't be on Cuddle Comfort, but finds refuge here because of restrictive laws in certain places. May be only dimly aware of cuddling as a Thing.
Z ) Deliberately criminal. The rarest category. Examples include the 'professional' taking the money, excusing herself then not returning; and the client being lured to a quiet place and then robbed.
OMG! SW = Sex Work[ers] not South West[erners] 🤦♀️
@quixotic_life i think southwesterners fall under that umbrella too. You have to really work at sex when it’s 120 degrees.
I have some wordsmithing and formatting suggestions.
I see that you're going for parallel structure by starting labels A–F (but not Q and Z) with the word Cuddle, but I think the results are mixed, as some of the terms are ungrammatical or confusing; for example, E) Cuddle Developer is confusing because it sounds like someone who develops cuddles, the way a software developer develops software, and F) Cuddle Unprofessional is ungrammatical because unprofessional is not a noun (i.e., there is no such thing as "an unprofessional"). "Cuddle Therapist" makes sense because it is an established term in which the word cuddle acts as an adjective (what kind of therapist? a cuddle therapist, as opposed to a massage therapist or a psychotherapist), but "Cuddle Opportunist" strikes me as strange— I mean have you ever heard of another kind of opportunist, such as "massage opportunist" or "photography opportunist"? "Cuddle Hobbyist" sounds okay, but "Hobbyist Cuddler" sounds better; however, you can't really call someone who is making money from something a "hobbyist" (see https://www.moneyunder30.com/side-income-hobby-or-a-business), so I think moonlighter would be a more appropriate term.
When you make an ordered list, whether you use letters or numbers, it's hard to then say "in no particular order." An unordered list (or "bulleted list") is less likely to imply hierarchy. Besides, I think it's unlikely that many people will remember what each letter or number stands for ("what was type C, again?").
Even though the list comprises bullets, I did put the list items in an order of progress that makes sense to me: first a moonlighter, then developing into a pro, then becoming a practitioner (such as "Cuddlist Trained"), then being a therapist (such as "Cuddlist Certified") (see https://cuddlist.com/become-a-professional-cuddler-with-cuddlist/). The alternate routes are not going in the direction of training but rather just being a pro for opportunistic reasons and/or being really unprofessional at it. Then there are sex workers and criminals, but they’re aren't really cuddlers.
Aside from verbiage, I think your descriptions are interesting and informative. They sort of read like words to the wise from those who have seen a lot. Stereotypes might be harmful, though, such as describing a "Cuddle Hobbyist" as "hav[ing] a brief profile, and often young." I've seen mature people with brief profiles, and I've seen young people with long profiles. I'm not sure there's enough of a correlation to warrant the stereotype.
I must say, I love your descriptions of "Cuddle Practioners" and "Cuddle Pros"! If I had my druthers, those would be the only two types of pros doing business. Perhaps this list will help educate both clients and pros so that happens sooner than later.
P.S. I forgot to ask this, but it’s fundamental: what is the purpose of this list and who is its intended audience?
@nurturingman ~ As a non-Pro, I think those terms sound great and leave little room for confusion.
@nurturingman you're right that the names as they stand are no good. I haven't put much thought into them and your comments are very valuable, thank you.
The question of order is trickier than it looks because of differing views on what cuddling is and/or should be. But you are right that the final version has to make some kind of ordered sense and again your comments are very helpful.
The intended audience for this list is everybody in the cuddle world, plus interested parties outside of it.
The purpose of it is to provide a framework for talking about cuddling in a structured way. At present we have no established terminology for the different types of cuddle professional, or even agreement on what those types are. Mature professions have a vocabulary, and defined (and even protected) terms. The purpose of this exercise is to take the first step on the journey of creating such terms for cuddling.
Good questions by the way, I remembered after I posted that that last update that these were basically the points I wanted to mention and were the reason I hadn't yet posted it.
Types of cuddle professional (provisional, updated). Thank you all. Further comments very welcome, this is not quite the final word but I think we're close.
The purpose of this document is to provide a framework for talking about cuddling in a structured way. At present we have no established terminology for the different types of cuddle professional, or even agreement on what those types are. Mature professions have a vocabulary with defined (and even protected) terms, and this list is the first step in creating such terms for both the cuddling community and interested people outside it.
Note that these categories are determined more by the underlying attitude of the professional to cuddling, than what actually happens during a typical session. The category of a cuddler cannot be determined from their profile alone, their pre-session communication or even a single session; but only by their whole practice.
Boundaries between categories are not hard and fast, or even well defined. All cuddle sessions and relationships are individual, so a professional cuddler may be or appear to be in one category to a particular client, and a different category to another client. Order is not significant except that the first five are all valuable to the cuddle community, and the last three are not.
Moonlighter - Sees cuddling as a side-gig for a little bonus cash or just getting lots of cuddles. Fairly reliable and well-meaning, but may not really understand what they are doing. Most have only a brief profile, and while they can be any age they are more often young. Moonlighter and its subcategories (see below) form the largest group of cuddle professionals.
Opportunist professional - Is doing it for the money, pure and simple. A variant of the Moonlighter (above). Does not particularly care about cuddling or clients. May offer sexual services during the session for an additional fee, but does not offer sex itself and does not really see themselves as a sex worker. Usually a brief profile, possibly with a number of photos which are close to the boundaries of 'platonic'. One of the more common categories of professional cuddler in the USA.
Developing professional - Somebody who is in transition between categories (fairly common) or doesn't fit neatly into any one of them.
Cuddle Practitioner - May have completed a training course and commonly has a comprehensive profile. Competant and reliable professional with adequate boundaries, but doesn't have the depth of knowledge of a Cuddle Therapist (below). Frequently cuddles part-time but may be full-time.
Cuddle Therapist - Probably has a background in a caring profession and is likely to have completed at least one training course. Their practice may be informed by psychotherapy or other therapeutic modalities. Can talk intelligently about issues like transference, is well-boundaried, and should provide a very safe and caring cuddle. Usually at least 25 years old, with a thoughtful and detailed profile. If they have been active on Cuddle Comfort for more than a few months, likely to have some good Karma.
Chaotic professional - Another variant of the Moonlighter (above), but is completely unsuited to professional cuddling (or indeed any personal service industry) and has has no concern for clients whatsoever. Likely to have little or no written profile and be living a somewhat chaotic lifestyle. Unboundaried. May not return messages, block you without reason, cancel without notice, turn up drunk, fall asleep for the whole session, engage in sexual activities (with or without an additional fee) or sexually assault the client. But on a good day, may provide a decent service. This is the category that gives rise to many of the complaints on the forum.
Sex Worker - Offers some combination of cuddling, massage and sexual services. Shouldn't be on Cuddle Comfort, but finds refuge here because of restrictive laws in certain places. May be only dimly aware of cuddling as a Thing.
Criminal - The rarest category. Examples include the 'professional' taking the money, excusing herself then not returning; and the client being lured to a quiet place and then robbed.
I’m not under any of these categories.
I don’t see this as a side gig, I’m not doing this soley for money, I’m not developing. I’ve been at this for two and a half years. I don’t have training but I think I’m confident in talking intelligently about issues like transference, am very well-boundaried, and I definitely provide a very safe and caring cuddle. I’m for sure not a chaotic cuddler and am definitely not a sex worker or criminal.
The closest I would be would be a Cuddle Practitioner but I guess I don’t like how little it paints what I’m amazing at just because I don’t have training. Just me being picky I guess 😅
@Sheena123 brilliant! How would you describe yourself, in the kind of terms that these descriptions use? Would you rewrite Practitioner or Therapist to be better at including you, or would you add another category?
I guess since Cuddle Practioner already says “may have training” you may as well mesh the two together. Just put in there “may have training and qualification to further discuss transference and delicate topics”. Because besides not having training, I fall under everything else in both those categories 🤗
Thank you. How about this:
Cuddle Therapist - Possibly has a background in a caring profession and is likely either to have completed at least one cuddle training course; have considerable experience; and/or have training, certification or experience in related fields. Their practice may be informed by psychotherapy or other therapeutic modalities. Can talk intelligently about issues such as transference, is well-boundaried, and should provide a very safe and caring cuddle. Usually at least 25 years old, with a thoughtful and detailed profile. If they have been active on Cuddle Comfort for more than a few months, likely to have some good Karma.
I want to keep Practitioner and Therapist separate to reflect the difference between somebody with no experience straight off a training course, and somebody who has seen it all.
That makes sense to me! 😊 thanks for the change! Lol I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to call myself a therapist lol but I’m in that category experience wise 🥳