@CuddleDuncan Don't know that quixotic_life was referring to you, not that it matters. Cuddle Consultant doesn't fit you anyway. I continue to enjoy your posts.
@apico04 Your post is ultra thoughtful and makes a good point. I hope you continue to join the forum.
I personally saw it as a personal attack on @CuddleDuncan and it bothered me.
If it bothers you so much maybe look into why... 💁♀️
Until then, the following is for you the offended...
And for those who weren't...
@quixotic_life yes but relief is a noun, and its placement in your phrase is suggestive of an adjective. Also, the noun in your phrase is provider. I tried to conceive of the whole thing as two noun phrases joined together but it didn't make any sense to me, which is why I asked.
(The other adjectives are semiprofessional and cuddle. Three adjectives is a lot, and when compiling my list I was keen to keep the number down to one at the most. The protected terms in the UK mostly (always?) have no more than one.)
All of which reminds me, over here semiprofessional indicates somebody who acts more or less like a professional, but is not being paid. You were using it in the sense of being part-time. Is that how it is generally used in the US?
B- trained but I don’t have a therapy background. If anyone who wants to seriously do this job I recommend a training program on boundaries ethics, safety, connection etc. but I don’t think it’s mandatory. I know it’s helped me in a lot of ways.
This thread has been interesting but titles and labels have never excited me.
@Btown I agree. So an old thread gets resurrected and someone is getting called out from September 2021 post. I think some posters need new material IMO
No idea. If you want a deep dive into semantics you've got the wrong gal.
I beleive you are well aware that I'm a bit of a wordy weirdo. Because I have a tendency to make up words that make sense to me, such as "Squeee!!!" and "Friendshiping", (and fwiw typically make sense to others too), and I'm also known to use far too many adjectives, putting words into a near Yoda-ish order sometimes, often begin sentences with "And" or "Because", etc. I think it stands to reason that I can hardly be considered a trusted off-the-cuff authority on such things.
Further, I honestly feel, if you really wanted to know, you'd just do the Googling about it yourself.
@quixotic_life I know you do. Sometimes I know exactly what you mean (and it's brilliant) but this time I didn't. Sadly I can't google your thought processes!
@Btown I agree. Seems very bureaucratic, cold and unnecessary. There are billions of people on this rock and we are all different and labeling people is the domain of people who in the past used it to subjugate people based on class, education, race, gender, and wealth among other nastiness. You know who still does it? Bureaucrats and politicians. Labels are weapons of power.
Self-labeling is quite another thing for another thread.
So I read the original post earlier when there was only 1 page of comments, so I want to preface this by saying I have not read the comments that have been added since. So my apologies if my comments are redundant or irrelevant at this point in the conversation.
I think my issue with the categories suggested by the original post is that it doesn’t give a lot of room to assume good intentions about people. The most helpful assessments or other attempts to categorize people that I have come across provide multiple places for people to land with good intent and/or with an ability to celebrate what is good about them. These categories feel like ways to insult, attack, or belittle a lot of people. Even if it’s not intended in that way, that’s the way it felt as I read it, which made it hard for me to appreciate the categories.
I was going to string together a reply and then I realized that it's just words on the internet with some strangers and it really doesn't matter if I finish this sentenc
@MCcuddles2 lol, I get what you're saying. I was just rereading this thread, gonna put this in spoiler....
A comment was made earlier here about professional cuddlers going to a male enthusiast "for help and advice, sometimes in quite serious matters." In my opinion that's what we have moderators and admins for. 🤔
Ha! Sometimes neither can I... 🙇♀️
And congrats to you on stumping me on what you're stumped about... because whether 'relief' is used as a noun, adjective or verb it works because a feeling can be all three.
And it was specifically the feeling [of Relief] that a cuddle provides that I was refering to.
You can substitue any of the others and they hold as well... a feeling of Solace, Relaxation, Reassurance, etc.
And yes, as I put in the intial post parentheses, a "Semiprofessional" would be one who is part time. And because on this site anyone who is referred to as a "Pro" (nomatter to what degree others may see them as such) is paid, they too would indeed be charging/paid for the cuddle services they provide.
Additionally whether the way 'relief' is applied/stressed in application is...
... Relief-Cuddle Provider Or ... Relief Cuddle-Provider
...they both say and mean the same thing.
My understanding is that even though there are many nuanced reasonings for a Client to seek out a Pro, they are ultimately paying someone to provide a supplemental-like service (for a feeling).
Again in my understanding, no matter the feeling or state of being one might be wanting to have tended to, the general goal or outcome desired is to feel a sense of relief from the wanting/absense of said feeling (even if just temporarily).
Anyway, that's pretty much where my head was at back then, and hopefully this serves to finally answer your questions nearly a year later...
Lucky me there was an emergency alert to stay indoors due to all the lightning strikes so I had the time to dig into it a little bit.
🕊
@CuddleDuncan I appreciate you being a part of the community and the work that you put in, trying to help people understand different aspects about the way CC works. I know we don't always agree but that doesn't mean that I can't be respectful but I am sort of at a loss.
When you posted this last year, I didn't comment. I didn't understand why you didn't put over in the "Professional Cuddling" category so you could get answers from the people you were targeting. You had just joined in 2020 and I thought maybe it was a mistake or you were trying to gain a perspective. You asked....
If you are a professional, what category do you fall into? And what category do you believe others perceive you as being? What, if any, categories are missing? I'm particularly interested in comments from experienced clients.
I was trying to be respectful and not take the thread off topic with my ENTHUSIAST comments. But this resurrection doesn't seem to serve a purpose that is beneficial for the community and I'm struggling to understand why you feel it is so important to create labels that aren't what @mark intended.
You mentioned...
The purpose of this document is to provide a framework for talking about cuddling in a structured way. At present we have no established terminology for the different types of cuddle professional, or even agreement on what those types are. Mature professions have a vocabulary with defined (and even protected) terms, and this list is the first step in creating such terms for both the cuddling community and interested people outside it.
Not because you were intending it to, but this thread seems to have dissolved into a lot of frustrations and a bit of passive aggressive name-calling. We are all here and part of the community that IS in place. I suppose if he wanted to create all sorts of labels or content for the professionals to be nested under, he would do that. But as some have said, there is a liability involved in saying that HE has done some other kind of vetting. Instead he left it pretty basic. You get paid for cuddles or you don't. End of story.
I FEEL like there is something in you that desires so strongly to "Create a framework" for the cuddle community, but then it doesn't leave room for everyone to just have their own ideas. Its kind of like in the 80's where my high school came up with words that no-one else had heard of but the "cool kids" Every time you refer to one of your "labels" or threads as though they are the TRUTH about cuddling it creates confusion for people coming to the site or the world of cuddles in general.
Creating an entire language here about "what to call professionals" so we can all categorize them doesn't actually help build connection. Instead it builds a group of people who "know all the lingo" or possibly feel like they're in a category they didn't want to be a part of. You've said multiple times that "its a work in progress" and "it isn't finished yet" as though its going to be some kind of sticky note about Pro categories. Some newbie comes along and wants to hire a pro, all of the sudden they are hit with "WHAT KIND OF PRO ARE YOU LOOKING FOR?" "Ask Cuddle Duncan because he has them all categorized" It takes out the entire framework of individuality.
If someone asked you personally about a pro you had a session with, it would make sense to talk a little bit about your specific experiences with different kinds of people, but to try and make a list of categories feels a little bit, ummmm, as though cuddling is more black and white than a LOT of people perceive it to be. Your opinions here as a cuddle enthusiast might be taken as though it is some kind of fact and influence people negatively about cuddling even though I believe you have a desire for a positive outcome.
Of course we all have nicknames for the way people treat others but I don't feel like its healthy or beneficial to do it publicly and I'm still struggling to see your reasoning in putting it in the enthusiast forum category based on what you were hoping to accomplish.
@OhioMike
A comment was made earlier here about professional cuddlers going to a male enthusiast "for help and advice, sometimes in quite serious matters." In my opinion that's what we have moderators and admins for.
I don't know about others but in my case it's mostly not on Cuddle Comfort. If it is in the CC world, and it's something mods or admins should know about or can help with, I always direct the questioner straight to them. That's relatively rare, and when it does happen it's usually with people who are new.
Thanks @quixotic_life, I appreciate that. I'll have a think about it.
LONG BORING POST ALERT. Nothing to see here, move along to the next post please.
@sillysassy thank you for that. Kind and thoughtful as ever.
I didn't understand why you didn't put over in the "Professional Cuddling" category
Neither do I. Either it was a mistake or it seemed like a good idea at the time. I have now asked for it to be moved. (Edit: thank you, mods!)
I'm struggling to understand why you feel it is so important to create labels that aren't what @mark intended.
Until I read that comment it never occurred to me that the labels would ever be used on CC in any way whatsover, except in conversation in the forum and perhaps by some professionals in their profiles if they wanted to. Or rather, it never occurred to me that anybody would think that. So thank you for bringing it up!
I spend too much time on the forum. I think we can all agree on that. It fulfils a psychological need, as I'm sure it does for many of us. But other than that, CC is only a modest part of my cuddling world. I was a client for two years before I'd ever heard of CC, and most of my important cuddling relationships were forged elsewhere. If CC disappeared tomorrow the impact on my day-to-day life would be severe, due to the loss of the forum, but the impact on my actual cuddling would be negligible. I spend so much time here because this is the best cuddling forum, but CC is neither the centre of my cuddling world nor the cuddle world in general. And it's the cuddle world in general that I think about.
I want everybody who needs a cuddle to get one. I care about this a lot because for much of my life I've been one of those people. I appreciate that there are many people here not in favour of this goal, but I'm going to stick to my guns. For that to happen, cuddling needs to become a properly regulated profession. Professions have names for people who function in different ways. In American football we have wide receiver, quarterback and tight end. In nursing we have mental health nurse, theatre nurse and health visitor. Cuddling needs a parallel nomenclature.
I haven't given a second's thought to whether CC might or should use that nomenclature once it is developed, because that is a conversation for five or ten years time.
Not because you were intending it to, but this thread seems to have dissolved into a lot of frustrations and a bit of passive aggressive name-calling.
Sadly, it has.
I FEEL like there is something in you that desires so strongly to "Create a framework" for the cuddle community, but then it doesn't leave room for everyone to just have their own ideas.
For the first half of that sentence you're quite right. But I take exception to the second part (in the friendliest possible way!) In all my threads I repeatedly ask for comments and suggestions. I always think about them very carefully. I open three windows and copy and paste comments back and forth to make sure I haven't missed anything. I then edit my text to include them whenever I think that's helpful, and if I think it's not helpful I usually explain why. I treasure the suggestions that people give me, not just on CC but everywhere, because they make the final thing much better than I could have made it on my own. Go and read the first post in this thread, then read my latest update. Virtually all - if not all - of the significant changes have been based on things people have said. It simply isn't true that there isn't room for other people to have their own ideas. And if somebody can do the whole thing better than me - please, I beg you, do it.
I don't feel like its healthy or beneficial to do it publicly
I did think about that before originally posting. It's always a tricky business with matters like this. It's better in some ways to do it privately as you say, but then you lose out on the input of the wider community. On this occasion, rightly or wrongly, I thought it was better to have the whole community involved.
It takes out the entire framework of individuality.
That is always a risk with a categorisation system, which is why the descriptions are laden with words such as "may" and "likely". And why there is even a specific category for people who don't fit the other categories. And why the blurb at the top explicitly states,
The category of a cuddler cannot be determined from their profile alone, their pre-session communication or even a single session; but only by their whole practice. Boundaries between categories are not hard and fast, or even well defined. All cuddle sessions and relationships are individual,
The category of a cuddler cannot be determined from their profile alone, their pre-session communication or even a single session; but only by their whole practice.
Boundaries between categories are not hard and fast, or even well defined. All cuddle sessions and relationships are individual,
Baseball pitcher X isn't less individual because they are labelled a pitcher. That just describes the role they play.
so we can all categorize them doesn't actually help build connection. Instead it builds a group of people who "know all the lingo"
That is both true and problematic. But it's true of everything. When I first tried to get a professional massage I was bewildered by the array of terms. Do I need shiatsu, Swedish or deep tissue? What's the difference? How would I know which one I need? It's not the names or the distinctions that are the problem: the problem arises when the profession concerned does not provide an easy way in for new clients. Cuddling, given its nature, will I hope become particularly welcoming and helpful to new people. In the future, that might even be a specific qualification: 'New Client Cuddling Specialist'.
or possibly feel like they're in a category they didn't want to be a part of.
I have no idea how that could happen. For the foreseeable future the only way anybody could know what category somebody was in (even assuming they fitted into one) is the category the person says they are in. Everybody else is basically guessing. Categories are just a quick and easy way of saying a thing you were going to say anyway.
You've said multiple times that "its a work in progress" and "it isn't finished yet" as though its going to be some kind of sticky note about Pro categories.
My guess is 10-20 years, maybe more. It won't be a yellow sticky, part of it will be an Act of Congress/Parliament.
Currently the only "labels" used here are:
If someone, new or otherwise, needs clarification or guidance about the site or the community here they are welcome to come to the forums to ask questions or directly message another site member to ask. Yes, the forums tend to be a better place as many people can provide input and new site members might not know who they can directly ask questions to or feel comfortable sending a private message. Specifically for new site members though it should be encouraged to reach out for answers in the forums as they might not be the only one looking for an answer to the same question.
I am curious why a thread from nearly a year ago was suddenly decided to be revived.
@jetblack it is categorically* not my intention to insult anybody. What changes would you suggest?
*Did you see what I did there? Did you, did you? Good eh? .............. Ok, ok, no more puns.
@reurbo for the avoidance of doubt (we were writing at the same time I think) this thread has nothing to do with the labels used by CC.
The thread was "revived" because this is a long-term project, and sometimes its hard for me to get round to doing stuff.
Well Mr. Duncan, for what it's worth, I appreciate your reply to @sillysassy ~ The sharing of what your intentions were and continue to be, as well as your process, has helped to soften the edges I had around all of this and yourself.
I think perhaps it's when an idea (or ideas) are presented in what lands like a multi-volumed dissertation that the push-back/shutdown happens. It can be a bit off-putting, overwhelming to get through, and challenging to participate in.
But having the bigger picture more fully explained has helped me to remove some of my, "Omg.... this guy....!! Am I right?!" thoughts. So really, thank you for that.
@CuddleDuncan I like your posts. I didn't read the one that said Long Boring Alert cause it did look boring, but I know you wanted to answer thoughtfully and completely. It doesn't matter what I think, but I hope you will always post regularly to the forum.
For the love of all that is holy, please let's avoid the word "relief" in relation to professional cuddling. For the more innocent among us, "providing relief" and/or "release" are both euphemisms for the same sexual act. Let's don't go there.
@AintMisbehavin ~ OMG!! 😳 Noted!!!
@CuddleDuncan I appreciate your mindful reply and the sharing of your intentions. I can totally relate to getting very passionate about things I really care about and I can see that this is true for you as well. (And no, I do not always speak in a calm and thoughtful manner... I often wave my arms around and raise my voice a bit! 😊) I hear your passion in this statement.
I want everybody who needs a cuddle to get one...... For that to happen, cuddling needs to become a properly regulated profession.
I can agree with this statement only partially, because it is only one aspect of the cuddle world but I am glad that you are championing this aspect of the snuggle.
@Babichev wrote
I do think it could be misleading to the public since it implies credentials that may not exist.
This is probably the biggest issue I am taking with the idea of you creating this LIST that will be drawn out and given to people repeatedly when they are looking for a Pro. It winds up feeling misleading. Its not something that exists. @jetblack mentioned there's a lot of negative emotion reflected in the categorizing. I can relate to that as the FEELING that I get when reading something like this.
@CuddleDuncan I appreciate that you are on the side of trying to LEGITIMIZE professional cuddling and I join you on that bandwagon. Having intimate knowledge in what you as a client are looking for is incredibly healthy and beneficial in finding a good match. (It works the same way enthusiast with enthusiast) but the categories just can't even come close to reality. Even if a Pro has a certificate and some training it doesn't mean they are GOOD at what they do. Like @Sheena123 mentioned, not having something doesn't downplay your skills either.
I can see how you would like to give advice in an easy manner by saying "Hey this is what worked for me" and "I sort of had to categorically figure out what I was looking for as well as what I was finding in my sessions" but you don't often stress THAT part as much as "Hey I have a great answer for that."
You are really REALLY good at speaking with an authoritative voice, but not so good at saying "its a super grey area and you ought to spend some time delving into your heart and emotions to see what resonates for you."
I am sure you and I are very different in how we approach giving advice, I do not blame you for you doing what you feel is important, I just wish you could see the whole group of people that are on the outside of your circle being influenced negatively. From the day you joined I told you how much I was thankful for your respectful additions to the forums, but it hurts my heart to see people who have felt somewhat frustrated with your "I've got it all figured out" attitude.
@nurturingman I loved your comment
Stereotypes might be harmful, though, such as describing a "Cuddle Hobbyist" as "hav[ing] a brief profile, and often young." I've seen mature people with brief profiles, and I've seen young people with long profiles. I'm not sure there's enough of a correlation to warrant the stereotype.
I feel like stereotypes and labels have historically created harm even if they were meant for good.
AND one of the biggest things that I take issue with in this list and these categories, is that the way one Pro interacts with one client might be ENTIRELY different with the next client based on a MULTITUDE of reasons. Of course I see that you are always trying to add a note that says "everyone might have a different experience." But sometimes the disclaimer doesn't come off as loud as you might think.
Like @Babichev said
they (the titles) are useless in practice since anyone can call themselves anything.
@CuddleDuncan I appreciate that you are willing to spend so much time thoughtfully responding and reflecting about what you are presenting and I DO believe that you have good intentions about trying to help promote healthy client/professional interactions. I think you kind of gave your answer in this simplicity..... WE as cuddle types are forging something new. Creating a BASIC language like @reurbo outlined does give a new client a place to start. And EACH professional takes time to fill out a profile, speak to what they do or do not do well, and all of their karma either confirms or denies those truths. With the example of sports.... There is a MEASURE to every category or position taken by a player. Our measure is karma and personal experience. Because we are HERE within this community.
When I am looking for a massage therapist, I ask around and see if someone knows a good one in the area. I look at their reviews online. I check their BBB ratings. That is the measure of a massage therapist. Add to that my personal experience and I've got a good session or I move on to the next option.
That is both true and problematic. But it's true of everything. When I first tried to get a professional massage I was bewildered by the array of terms. Do I need shiatsu, Swedish or deep tissue? What's the difference? How would I know which one I need? It's not the names or the distinctions that are the problem: the problem arises when the profession concerned does not provide an easy way in for new clients.
Because you and I are working within the framework of THIS community, I think the labels wind up making things more murky and cloudy instead of the specific interactions with each new person who might have questions. Like you said, you do a lot of one on one counseling and it helps fill a need for you as well as your interactions on the forums. Maybe you can just create more emphasis on the INDIVIDUALITY of the experience in order to provide balance to your umbrella terms?
My opinion , and mind you this is not meant as a personal attack , is that it is a bit much to see excessive amounts of posts with links to ones own threads . Then announcements made in unrelated threads about things being added to older threads and older threads all with links etc does come across a certain kind of way. Sure takes up a lot of real estate . I'm not sure I'd do that if I weren't trying to present myself as some kind of something. Of course this is coming from someone who posts about his poops and uses any excuse I can to post pics of my animals so take it as you may
@pmvines your bowel movement posts always made us think that you’re one of the “regular “ peeps here 😂