Someone made a very derogatory and sexist comment toward a group of women and immediately got schooled by two extremely intelligent and articulate members. This is what I love to see! Way to go @Hathor and @Pmvines!! Also your original post was beautiful and you explained the concept in an enjoyable way. I think you are right people have a tendency to get on forums to be contrary. Thanks for being brave enough to share.
I like to think of it has their paying or renting my time to be there. Do not get me wrong, I really enjoy cuddling and helping people but I also have children I could be with at that time. Just my thoughts
I mean, it seems more reasonable than holding someone's leg and screaming for them to stay, or trying to guilt them into staying past their appt time
@Safespacecuddle dawww 🖤🤗
@Hathor Soothes my soul greatly that you stumbled across this insight.
I first stumbled upon it several years back after finally taking the plunge, having a son, and all of a sudden noticing just how much of our world/society/“progress” is actually built up around catering to the needs (and demands) of women. Any conscientious new mom going into a store to shop for kids clothes would notice it almost immediately.
MamaBear instinct kicked in. Women began getting more aggressive towards me, mean even when I’d bring it up. It was so off-putting it pushed me to the other side and I don’t think it’s possible for me to turn back. And comments about me being “sexist” don’t effect me bc they aren’t actually true.
Nonetheless, glad you were gifted with the insight and I pray everyday for that deeper compassionate understanding to illuminate itself within the collective conscious minds of more women.
@biancalovecraft 🙌 yup yup yup
@cde123 Your altruism and stoicism (in text) is comforting and refreshing. Thank you 🙏
@Hathor ~ That's really lovely and makes me think that perhaps I should inquire about time frames. Usually it's a squishy sort of window, "let's meet at ___ for a bit" and could leave a lot of room to not be on the same page. I don't know that it's ever been an issue, but I could see it potentially being one for some, if not at least somewhat defined.
I can see where someone looking for cuddles on a dating site would run into problems. Dating expectations are different than cuddling expectations. But as far as CC goes, the expectations between a Pro and an enthusiast are exactly the same (Money aside), at least they should be. But this is a new scene and some folks do have a hard time treating cuddling like a companion-oriented endeavor. Even when I point it out (I'm an enthusiast only) some cannot turn those deeply engrained dating expectations off. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone cite this as a reason for leaving CC. So we're all paving new territory here in the cuddle world.
As @biancalovecraft said, I have heard clients share that insight with me before but in the context of sex work. This client, in particular, occasionally did hire sex workers and told me that when you hire an escort, you are really paying them to leave because you want the sex without the drama or commitment of a girlfriend. So the same could be said for platonic cuddle services as well; some people do just want the occasional cuddle without the commitment, whether it be because they don't want to be in a relationship or they are already in a relationship and don't want to be in another just to get their touch needs to be met.
However, this paying me to leave insight is certainly not true for every client; many of my clients are very lonely or feel like they have no one they can truly be themselves with other than me. They pay me to fill a massive void in their life until they can find those relationships organically. I had two clients within the past week tell me that I was their only safe person, and they didn't know how they would manage without me. Both of these clients see me as much as their time and budget allows and they would be happy to hear from me if I called or texted me outside of a session.
Both of these clients see me as much as their time and budget allows and they would be happy to hear from me if I called or texted me outside of a session.
Is that particularly healthy?
The murkiness around the connections created from a paid interaction is kind of fascinating to me. Therapists maintain a very strict set of legally regulated boundaries, where no such regulation yet exists here. I have had discussions with many pro cuddlers and sex workers alike about what their views are on their relationships with their clients. The responses run the gambit, from essentially "they knew what they were getting into" all the way to "I really care about their lives".
I personally believe that a healthy boundary should exist between a client and provider. @biancalovecraft says it beautifully:
"There are people here who will argue that professionals don't care about their clients because of these professional boundaries, without ever noticing that's what they came for."
You are paying for a specific power dynamic and service, trying to extend beyond that is in my opinion a recipe for failure. However there are many who disagree, who just as strongly feel that these types of relationships can exist. I have yet to see it but I am happy for anyone able to thread that needle. Too often though it sounds like an addiction to filling a need through unhealthy means, instead of using it as a supplement.
EDIT
I'll be the first to admit I am a hypocrtite though, prone to throwing money at problems. I completely understand those who do the same.
Glass houses.
@tacpmurg I agree with what you say re boundaries . The topic has been brought up about pro cuddling being taken more seriously as a legit profession, and one of the things that really would need to be considered is establishing clear across the board expectation for boundaries. It would make things much easier for both parties. You aren't hiring someone for their ongoing friendship and companionship outside of the professional context. It can be confusing for the client when they feel like they are friends outside of that bubble, and it can also be stressful and unfair to the pro when they are made to feel like they are expected to be their dial a friend because people will take advantage of that giving of an inch and trying to make a mile of it .
Every relationship is transactional. It’s simply a question of what you are paying with.
Edit: changed my mind about posting my comment
I think it's a mixed bag. Just because there is a transaction doesn't mean people cant be friendly or enjoy their professional relationships. I've been friendly with my masseuse, grocer, chripiractor, and martial arts teacher. All of those instances specified a transaction - I don't ask them to be friends, acquaintances, or lovers.
Sometimes we communicate outside of the bounds of a strict professional relationship if there is a question or if I simply ask about their day or week. Other times we only see each other for sessions, but it doesn't mean they don't care about me nor value me - they think I'm a good client or patient or customer. All good.
But with good professional and self-regulated personal boundaries, then nothing more is expected and no one's feelings get hurt.
@cylee1180 👏👏👏 here here
I don’t disagree with the benefit of having clear limits and removing stressful expectations personally.
While I don’t think paying for that is required it certainly can make it a lot easier.
Personally I struggle with people overstaying their welcome, wanting more than I’m willing to give and internally being a people pleaser thus putting pressure on myself to neglect my own boundaries and needs.
I have found it very helpful to be up front about my expectations and boundaries as a way to help as I work on these things myself.
It’s okay to say, “Even if we are having a great time, I’ll be leaving at X o’clock” or to curb conversation that becomes too personal/connected, or to be clear that the intention is to maintain a platonic interaction where meeting each others needs is the goal and if at any point other feelings arise then we have to be up front and end the arrangement.
@tacpmurg I said they would be happy to hear from me outside of a session, not that I regularly contact them between sessions. On occasion, I do check in on clients because I haven't heard from them in a while or to do a follow-up after their first session. If a client is experiencing emotional issues around our sessions sometimes I do have a call with them to try and help them work through it, but that is very rare.
I’m going to say the OP sounds like she was being ushered into a conversation about sex. Pay to leave is an old comedy bit about prostitution, so to introduce that when speaking about cuddling gives me that impression anyway.
I only read a few comments in the thread because i got overcome with bravado and braggadocio my goodness. I just had a good laugh here with my friends with benefits……
@xandriarain I should have cut the quote at the first half, I assumed you maintain your boundaries based on your profile and previous posts, which of course is important as a pro.
If a person is growing attached to a specific pro cuddler, to the point of booking sessions as much as their time and budget allows, I have to wonder though where the personal responsibility of the client ends and the duty of care starts for a pro?
I personally try to see different pro cuddlers, to avoid those types of murky waters myself.
@FunCartel and @pmvines coming to set the record straight. I appreciate it. Too often men see women as toys and objects and when it’s time for accountability their hands are tied and someone else is the blame.
@Hathor I’ve tried the route of trying to just cuddle with people from other sites but they always want something more or are hell bent on the assumption that you can’t platonically cuddle and it not lead to non platonic action. So yes, you make loads of sense! ☺️ Being in the cuddle site as well as being a pro cuddle therapist provides that strong level of boundaries that are clear therefore leaving no excuse for people to say oh I didn’t know you didn’t want blah or you wanted to end our time here, etc.
Makes sense, that is exactly why people have been paying for professional touch for years! No expectations outside of that time together, no emotional attachments - it is scheduled, structured, expert, special, etc.
if you’re not paying someone, there’s got to be something else that they want in return, like a relationship, other types of support, commitment, emotional attachment, etc. this is just how human relationships work.
@Sheena123 🙌🙌🙏🙏🙏
lol @ the dude having a “rotation”
@BadIdeas I'm sure the rotation looks like this...
I only heard paying to leave in the context of paying sex workers. How does this paying to leave a cuddler square up with cuddling as therapy? Cuddling is therapy right? It involves clients and offices and appointments. Would anyone say that they were paying a psychiatrist or psychologist to leave? It seems like an awful lot of money to pay someone to leave. For that matter does anyone pay psychologists hundreds upon hundreds of dollars to spend multiple hours with them even overnight? People hope their insurance pays for psychiatrists or psychologists and if they have to pay $100 it seems like a lot. Also some of the talk about "clients" getting attached and spending all their disposable income on a cuddler seems more like an addiction than any therapy. I thought a goal of therapy was to help end various addictions, not drain someone's bank account due to that person's vulnerabilities, loneliness, or addictions
@snugbuddy the reasons and appeal to some for having a finite amount of time to dedicate to a particular activity, and the comfort some take in the knowledge that it has specific time parameters has been discussed at length throughout the thread. You honestly just sound jaded about something and are now on a rant. Who hurt you my guy ?
@pmvines I was talking about when it it becomes harmful and addictive. If someone is addicted and draining their bank account that's no longer therapy. It has nothing to do with anything that happened to me.
If you don't pay them, then they never leave! It's win-win!
This resonates with me, and I don’t think it has anything to do with gender. It’s simply a boundary. And I totally agree that within that boundary you have the freedom to explore and develop intimacy knowing there will be no expectation of reprise or reciprocity afterwards. I think of this professional boundary as akin to the “sandboxing” that software developers do when testing software isolated from other software to make sure nothing they do when they experiment will endanger the system (or playing around with web development without bringing a website down, which is more my area of experience).