Excellent post. Thank you to everyone who contributed.
@MxSmith: Turned to Satan and came to understand bodily autonomy? Well, whaddya know—me too!
There's just something about understanding that a person's body belongs to them that makes for a better experience in life generally than assuming everyone's body belongs to the same guy (who has some questionable ideas about what's okay).
The Lord isn't likely to say "this temple of mine has osteoporosis so don't hug it too hard"—but the person who actually owns the body will tell you if you ask, and what's more, their preferences suddenly matter!
Asking before you do anything that directly impacts a person just seems like good common sense to me these days.
@Mike403: Keeping track of the microexpressions and changes in body language allistic people use to communicate discomfort can be tricky for me as an autistic too, but I do my best.
It helps if, before a cuddle, I make it as clear as possible that I'm relying on my buddy to help me give them the excellent cuddle I want to give. Letting my buddy know I want feedback takes some of the awkwardness of honesty away, and then I ask whenever they shift: "Still comfy?" if it's a small shift, or "Want a new position?" if it's a big one.
Took a while for that to start feeling natural, but now it hardly takes any energy at all—it's a handy script like any other social script I use in person, and works pretty dang well.
@DaringSprinter - After the interaction in another thread that looks like it has been deleted, I feel comfortable just sticking with a cuddler I've been seeing for a few years who understands me. People were making me feel bad because I couldn't understand what confirming continued consent meant when I didn't move my hand somewhere where consent wasn't initially given. I was picturing constantly asking, "is this still okay? is this still okay?" like a broken record. It doesn't come naturally to me.
@Mike403: You've got a cuddle buddy you're comfortable with already? That's awesome!
If you'd like, I bet they'd be willing to help you practice skills like noticing when an allistic is uncomfortable and asking what you can do to make them comfy again. That way, if you ever have to find a new buddy (fate forfend, but if), it'll be easier.
Up to you, though. Learning new skills can be stressful, and only you know if it'd be worth it for you.
@DaringSprinter - I met her through this site in 2017. She deactivated her account here, but I still book with her directly on a monthly basis. It's way more comfortable for me to see the same pro who already understands me than to try to have a variety.
@Mike403: I understand the comfort of familiarity very well. I just don't trust life not to change on me, so I do my best to cultivate skills that'll help me get what I need/want whatever happens.
What if she moves, or stops cuddling, or—? It's awful to think about, but it's good to have a viable Plan B: the ability to navigate consent with a new person might be worth gaining.
I think that consent and a clear articulation of boundaries and expectations is essential for every interaction between beings. If everyone made sure to only do things with others that they agree to the world could be such a more peaceful place. I don't agree with every law that every country has but I respect everyone for having their rules for their own sake and I don't think it's ever necessary to cross someone's boundaries. No matter what an individual's needs or wants are breaking boundaries is unacceptable you can always wait and find a more willing and compatible person to interact with but if you do cross someone's boundaries you can't take that damage back. So I hope over time more people realize that it's easier and more fulfilling/meaningful to find someone who genuinely wants what you want than it is to try and convince/persuade someone to do something they don't want to.
This thread, especially additions by brilliant @MxSmith should be condensed into a tidy gift in every member's mailbox, and be part of the welcome package when a new member joins.
Ps (ave satanas everyone 🫂)
Bumping. Because reasons.
I love this thread. Especially @Sideon’s responses
This thread has been very informative. Also, this thread reminded me of when my mom asks me to go to church with her (which is very rarely) and a family friend will greet me by saying “Hey the heathen is here!” She is totally joking and I find it hilarious 😂
But back to the topic, I always begin the session asking if they have any boundaries (beyond the private areas) they would like me to avoid, and then during the session I ask before doing anything new, and even then those questions are ones I would feel comfortable asking a family member.
There is also a cuddler here that I had been a client of before joining CC that would have consent exercises with me to help me voice my concerns and also learn to always answer with an enthusiastic yes or no since maybe always means no. I am the type that would not speak up because I wouldn’t want to make things awkward (though I’ve never actually been in this situation) and these exercises helped me break free of that.
@sillysassy As always, I appreciate your viewpoint and the eloquence with which you express it.
Cuddling is wonderful. Yes there are rules. Simple to follow. This isn’t a dating site. We all want to be comfortable with each other. Just stick to the objective here. Touch that is innocent is ok. Yes you might do something that makes the other uncomfortable so respect that., Consent is important but if you follow the rules it’s not an issue.,
Brilliantly spoken @MxSmith #HailSatan 😉
🙇♀️ ~ Hrmph. Some of us who like skin to skin, or ask if skin to skin is okay, aren't looking for extras or anything that could even justify a warning.
E¹: Can we have some skin to skin contact? E²: Can you be more specific? E¹: I'd just like to be able to drape my arm across your abdomen without a fabric barrior. E²: Whew! Yes, that is reasonable to me. E¹: Why, "whew"? E²: Because the last person who asked meant they wanted us to have our shirts off and that is for sure not okay! E¹: Oh yeah... That's a "Ban Hammer" move! E²: Glad we're on the same page. E¹: Same here. [End Scene]
It's kind of like the hug scenario mentioned earlier. The hugger could ask "May I hug you?" And the hugee could say, "Yes" without clarifying. Or they could follow with, "Can you be more specific? or "As long as it's gentle." Or maybe the hugger could just ask "May I hug you tightly, lift you up and spin you around?" and graciously take the "No". But IME, people who do that don't ask because they already know the answer and they kinda like the 'harmless' way they get to force their control over the exchange.
~ TL:DR ~ When asking the questions, outlining the boundaries, getting/giving the consents, maybe keep in mind that people might all be using the same words, but they may very well have differing meanings &/or intentions behind them.
Be specific and get specifics.
Just came across this interview about boundaries and thought it was worth a share.
https://www.vox.com/even-better/23310442/vox-conversations-boundaries-nedra-glover-tawwab-even-better
I have nothing to add for an answer to @Sideon ‘s original question that wasn’t put into my bio ages ago, but I must say that this is by far the absolute best post topic I have seen here, ever.
WE NEED TO BE HAVING THESE DISCUSSIONS! Not just in the bedroom or during a cuddle sesh. Ignorance is not an excuse. And the bit about nonverbal communication is 💯 Read the room, for real! I am perpetually baffled by how the majority of men I meet do NOT have this skill. We need to do better.
Anyway. @Sideon thank you so much for starting this extremely vital discussion. Hopefully those who truly need to read and HEED it actually do.
I would just like to add as a cis male, we're not always raised or reaffirmed by people or culture to assume we need consent. Unfortunately, far too many "men" are raised under the premise of conquering and being dominant. And I absolutely love this language and open discussion of consent and think many "men" need to really learn about it.
@sillysassy said... "Your NO makes me trust your YES more!"
I love this thought so much!
Thank you to everyone for their input and unique perspectives.
For anyone who hasn’t already seen it, this short video on consent, using tea as an example, is excellent.
The Vegas cuddle gathering was all about consent. ALL. ABOUT. CONSENT. Thank you, @sillysassy - for making this explicitly clear in your welcome to those gathered.
From greeting others and validating comfort levels, there were choices of fist bump, handshake (yeah, @pmvines - that comment is for you), hugs, or no contact at all. And no questions asked.
No pictures without express consent, and no posting said pictures to social media or the Viva Las Vegas picture thread, without consent/permission. And no questions asked.
Cuddles that happened after-party and through the weekend began and ended with consent. "May I cuddle with you?" "Can I touch your hair?" "I like light touch, but don't touch my feet and don't tickle me." "Is it okay if we change positions?" "Can so-and-so cuddle with us?" "This position doesn't work for me." "No thanks." "Yes, that works for me." "Yes." "No." All the above and then some, including reading body language. Read the room, people. Verify and validate consent, get their response, and when it's no, you don't get to ask what/where/why.
This community walks the talk. I am continually impressed with the maturity, thoughtfulness, and acts of mutual respect I experienced this past weekend.
@sideon I didn't recognize you at first my guy with all your mostly clear but not quite profile pics or else I wouldnt have been so damn formal 😂
I would very much like to express my gratitude to the guys at the Vegas meetup that showed me how rewarding cuddling with other men can be. I was always asked for consent and any reservations I had are now completely gone 🤗
I'm surprised Sideon doesn't look like a cross between a flag and Jackson Pollack.
@Charlie_Bear Thank you! It was nice meeting you!😁😎🤗
I learned a lot about consent from cuddle parties. I always check in with a person with what they're comfortable with.
Found this while I was forum surfing and thought it was still relevant enough to be bumped.
The community cuddles event that I've been to last month in Boulder, CO and have plans to attend it monthly does consent exercises to help people understand how to ask consent and know when consent it given.