Coming soon to a CC coffee table near you, @pmvines :
"Retinal Damage at Banned Camp" "Ethel, Put Your Clothes on!" (does anyone else but me remember "The Streak" from the 70's?) "Just Because You CAN Take a Picture Doesn't Mean You Should" "I Haz Internetz Plz Sendz Noodz"
and finally, from my current reading list
"How Can We Miss You If You Don't Go Away"
@pmvines
@Sideon Well, I'm a man, and I'm complaining. I don't appreciate unsolicited nudes. They make me uncomfortable. The only good thing about them is they're a pretty big and bright red flag. But I can avoid getting them by avoiding specific situations, and I'm very cognizant that that becomes next to impossible for any woman attempting to maintain a social media presence. I imagine inversely that there are about 5 women who actually appreciate that sort of thing, and that might come close to the number of men that don't, but I can only speak from my own experience.
@Green_Eyes Awesome, thanks for that 😂
@Alan1975 - Glad you liked it. 🤣🤣🤣
@Alan1975 have you reported the ones that sent you these unsolicited nudes?
@Sheena123 I'm sorry, maybe I should've been more clear, not here. But in any case that it's available, I've reported, and I haven't found a place that doesn't allow you to block.
@Alan1975 you can block here:
@Alan1975 - It makes me wonder if these "women" are scammers who took the images off some porn site and are using it as bait.
@Sheena123 Thank you, I appreciate it.
@Alan1975 you’re welcome ☺️ (btw, no worries, I didn’t press the block on your profile lol!) 😅
@Green_Eyes I didnt know you play guitar 😂
@Mike403 They are scammers, to be sure, and I'm not sure how easy verification checks are circumvented, so it's conceivable they weren't women. But any sites I took part in, I always restricted to verified users.
@Sheena123 I truly appreciate that 😂
@Sheena123
and then there are guys out there that constantly take these kinds of topics, commandeer them and say “not all men”, “men get hurt too” and so much more to ignore the actual problem
Yup.
Instead of looking at all men, and doing the math from there, what if we looked at all incidents of sexual aggression... everything ranging from violent sexual assault to unsolicited nude photos, cat calls, sneaky gropes, suggestive comments in inappropriate settings, etc.? How many are happening? Who's doing it? Why are they doing it? Who are they directed toward? What can be done about it?
@xelda 100% 👍🏻👍🏻 And I mentioned this before that sexual assault and being objectified happens way more to women and I don’t know a single woman that likes it. When anything sexual happens to a man done by a woman, I maybe know 3 men that would hate it… it is not the same…. I have to use my experiences and the views and experiences of every single woman I know. Most women are traumatized after an aggressive sexual act. Most men welcome it…
This shouldn’t be a “it happens to everyone so let’s all be friends kind of thing”. That’s a way of trying to shut down this issue. That’s not ok. This has to be talked about more and more. That’s how things will eventually in the future get at least a little better. This isn’t equal among genders, it just isn’t. And shutting down the conversation or trying to lie to yourself that this issue is equal amongst all genders is just not okay….
@sideon my comment was general and not based in this site. But again one unwanted or unexpected nude is one too many. I have received them in my life and i was just adding texture to the conversation, somebody stated this doesn’t happen to men.
I think that @SunsetSnuggles and @Ironman294 hit the nail on the head. This social issue OP brings up seems less about gender politics and more about how we approach and interact with people online.
@Alan1975, I appreciate your acknowledgment of the emotional labor women must do to meet men online. I am likewise horrified at the army of bots, scammers, and “Russian brides” men must wade through on dating sites these days. It sucks and it isn’t fair on either account.
That said, despite the slog, only a handful of women become so jaded as to become “man haters” and reject men out of hand. It is quite easy to approach women online with respect and kindness and—I guarantee—it will get you noticed!
Worry less about what other men are saying/doing and just approach women sincerely and without agenda. If women are cautious, do not be defensive. Practice patience.
And, in the meantime, bolster yourself by befriending real life women. I’m not necessarily talking about dating, just getting friendly with folks at work or church or joining social clubs. It will go a long way toward breaking down those “us vs them” mentalities we all fall prey to online.
@Sheena123 Yes, it's extremely obvious that you are only speaking from your own experience. Mine has been a very much different one. I don't expect you to know what I've been through, but I'm doing my best not to generalize, and I'm hoping others can try to see a point of view that isn't their own.
@AintMisbehavin Thank you, I truly appreciate it. Unfortunately, possibly due to geography, and the fact that I've been trying to reach out to people near me, this has not been my experience. Over the past 6 months, I have taken a serious emotional beating on social media, on dating sites, and even got a very short and unhelpfully vague message that I should book a pro when I first started here. Mostly I'm ignored. Out of about a dozen interactions, only one did not try to scam me for money. She lives in Nicaragua. But I will keep what you said in mind. Thanks again.
@SunsetSnuggles - thanks for the shout out 😊 @AintMisbehavin - I could not agree more!
I want to elaborate on my earlier comment on this thread. I previously mentioned how in times past there was a certain level of “external control” placed on men when they went out with a woman they met through a relative or mutual friends. But today when a man meets a woman without a common 3rd party being involved (often online), it is up to the man to use internal, self control that sadly, many men seem to lack today.
There are many possible reasons for this apparent lack of self control. Part of it may be a lack of positive male role models during a child’s formative years. Part of it may be an abundance of negative male “role models” (male celebrities and sports figures are often not the best examples of how to treat women with respect). Part of it may be cultural influence in movies, music and video games.
However, it is my personal belief the biggest factor is the prevalence of the “instant gratification” mindset. I grew up on a farm and was raised by 2 parents, neither of which graduated from high school. They were not highly educated but they instilled in me a strong work ethic and the principle of delayed gratification - work for what you want even if that means you don’t get it for weeks, months or years.
Society today is all about instant gratification. Compare the dialog and acting performances in movies from the 1950s - 1970s to movies today. Those movies were slower paced and featured a lot of character development so you were emotionally invested in what happened to those characters. Many movies today skip all of that and rely on fast paced action, explosions and CGI to “get to the good stuff” quickly. I am not meaning to knock all modern movies and I loved the Avengers as much as anyone, I am just saying movies are one example of how society has shifted toward instant gratification.
Another example is the heavy use of credit cards today. I remember as a kid when stores had “Layaway” programs where they would take an item off the shelf and put it in a back room for you so you could make payments on it and when it was paid off, you took it home with you. That was all replaced with the introduction of and growth of credit cards in the 1970s and 1980s. Again, I am not bashing credit cards, it is just another example of how society has embraced instant gratification.
To go get back to why so many men seem to lack self control today, I believe that too many men want to have non-platonic needs met instantly and they are using this website, along with countless others, in an attempt to facilitate getting those needs met quickly. I am absolutely NOT saying this is right or proper or justified. I am just saying that is what I think is happening. Our culture promotes instant gratification and too many men don’t see how inappropriate that mindset is when it comes to interactions with women.
@JohnR1972 I was thinking more about social media, and the anonymity so readily available. Thanks for helping me remember to keep my thinking more diverse. I think you've come up with some very good points. I notice there don't seem to be as many people reading as I remember, maybe that's another indication, but what really struck me was the mention of role models. Mine was Mister Rogers, and the Incredible Hulk, by way of the old TV show. I don't see a lot of positive role models today. Yeah, the Incredible Hulk 😂 But he always strove to find control, and did what he could even living the life of a drifter to help others.
"I don't know WHAT'S going on. I'm not entirely sure how to start this discussion, but it's a conversation that needs to happen."
For who? I certainly don't need to have this conversation. I see a lof of generalizing that fits your narrative that "most" men mistreat women and this is absolutely not true. Yes, some men do mistreat women in regard to sending dick pics, but generalizing that men do this as a whole is just not smart. Also, I have recieved unsolicited pics because some women think this is part of attracting a man. And why talk about being timid and shy? Sounds like you're playing victim, dude, I can't lie.
"I've been a victim of scamming, from women sending me nude pictures (those are easy to spot and ignore, funny how some women really do believe all men are after one thing), to women who have preyed on my goodwill, asking for money, just a little, so they can eat."
That's because you're allowing yourself to be taken advantage of. That's on you. Just stand up for yourself, man. It's that simple.
@JohnR1972 Thank you, imo you are spot on about this subject. I definitely remember when there was not this attitude of just taking what you want. I always believe it’s about choice and self control. There’s a time and place for sexual gratification, please just use some self control!! Granted, there are people who are mentally ill and violent. Rape is actually an act of violence more than a need for sexual gratification.
@pmvines I started reading this thread by reading your last message and feel that I might be missing some context.
Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land, nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress in this period in history.
@Mike403 The scammers aren’t necessarily women just because they send pics of women. And yes, they are stocks photos that they get somewhere on the internet.
@dave31415 - I know. That's why I put "women" in quotes.
@dave31415 I suddenly have the urge to watch Monty Python and the Holy Grail
There is an obvious asymmetry to the situation so there is no point trying to make the case that women do bad things too or whatever. Men by their nature seek out sexual opportunities wherever they can be had. Women then act as choosers among the suitors as they can only bear so many children and so need to be choosy. It's a simple questions of anatomy of the sexual function in animals. The behavioral traits are hard coded into our genes affecting behavior. Men who are aggressive sexually towards women have likely had a propagation advantage for most of their time on Earth which is why it such a problem. Genghis Khan had thousands of children thanks to genes for aggressive behavior. No woman could benefit in the same way. Before we talk about how to deal with the issue in society we need to understand this root cause of it.
Humans are the only civilized animals. Modern people enter into a social contract and agree to rules of behavior that require us to resists "natural" impulses for the communal good. So we all agree not to kill each other or steal etc. Men agree not to commit rape. Women have no analog. It's very unusual for a woman to rape a man because the genes that influence female behavior would not benefit from it. Likewise men have no natural sense of revulsion to sexual advances because their genes likewise would not benefit from it. Both men and women carry these same sets of genes but hormones during sexual development activate different combinations to influence behavior that will lead to a higher chance of propagating the same set of genes based on the sex of the individual.
So this has and will always be a problem that society has with men. It's a man-only problem. As explained above, it's easy to see why we have this problem. Evolution of humans has largely occurred prior to civilized society. And as participants in modern day society men need to learn to resist impulses and accept the morality of modern sexual norms.
It will never be a problem that will go away. Society needs to talk about it and continually try to influence male behavior for the happiness of women in our society. Men shouldn't get defensive about having these urges. It not a question of who is better, men or women. Women have no such urge to resist. It's not something that should make women feel superior any more than men feeling so because they handle PMS better. The problem is that modern day society is not conducive towards men acting out their natural sexual tendencies so we need to continually reinforce the behavior we want. There is value in thinking of it like this rather than thinking of men as some "bad" group of people because when you do this it creates the in/out group mentality where men feel compulsion to defend their group as a whole. There are many men (most I hope) that resist these urges. And there are those that don't. We can and should all be on the same side and be judgemental towards those that don't resist and appreciative of those that do.