Should people have to have karma to go pro?

dave31415dave31415
edited May 2023 in General

Was wondering if this would be a good idea. Would solve a couple of problems. Might cut down on fraud from fake cuddlers and scammers. Would give pros at least a little practice for free before charging anyone. Also would create a slight increase in enthusiast supply for cuddlers who find it difficult pay. What do people think?

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Comments

  • cde123cde123

    No way. Why should pros be required to cuddle anyone for free? That is against the basic concept of consent. Plus, what pros offer is valuable from the very first encounter.

    I guess CC could have some training videos that new pros are required to watch.

  • JasonCuddlesJasonCuddles

    If you require people to have karma before going pro it will do three things

    1) Increase the number of stealth pros
    2) Force scammers to make fake karma if they want to go pro
    3) Put restrictions on people which people don't like

  • [Deleted User]CharlesInWI (deleted user)
    edited May 2023

    How many different ways can the men here demand free cuddling?

    What are we going to do, have a select group of “cuddle testers”?

    Can I be one?

    Do I have to qualify to qualify the qualifiers?

    This is a (mostly) free market in action.

    No regulations, no sanctioning body, simply a meeting site for commerce where the providers of that site do the bare minimum to keep things reasonably civilized and somewhat safe, and then collect their fees and percentages.

    If the professionals here want to offer their time for sale, and if there are customers willing to pay for it, then that is that.

    The genie is out of the bottle.

    “Ought to” gets to take a leap, and “Can’t we just be nice” is jumping out right behind it.

    Capitalism baby!

  • [Deleted User]CharlesInWI (deleted user)

    @cde123 If the site provided for “training” then it might conceivably be legally responsible for the occasional “bad” product or incident.

    So, that won’t happen simply because legality and liability are VERY sketchy waters for a site like this to dip their toes in.

  • dave31415dave31415

    The reason a pro might have to offer free cuddling is because they are using the resources of the site and it would be a good way to practice. If you are training to be a dentist or massage therapist, you can’t just declare yourself to be one and start charging money. You will be working a lot for free while you train. There is nothing unusual about this. Whether people like this idea… well we will find out.

  • dave31415dave31415

    @cde123 That’s not what consent means. No one is required to use the site. It’s a choice.

  • PrettyLuvPrettyLuv

    Lol @ cuddle testers. That’s actually kinda cute. @CharlesInWI I volunteer too

  • dave31415dave31415

    @JasonCuddles 1) It’s not easy to be a stealth prob. They get thrown quickly because people get pissed at them and turn them in, 2) it’s also not easy to create fake karma and not get caught and not really worth the effort. 3) We will see whether people like it. It’s around 50-50 right now. I’m guessing non-pros will like it better but veteran pros might like it too.

  • RezzRezz

    Lol nah.
    If we can't have a proper formal screening process to keep the repeat offenders and dangerous members off the site, I sure as hell am not about to give away my time to potential perverts for FREE. Neither should my fellow pros.

    We'd just leave this site and go elsewhere.

  • [Deleted User]Mman (deleted user)

    The term "pro" on this site is used very loosely. To become one you need only agree to a few requirements. I have often thought there should be something more to becoming a professional.

  • RezzRezz

    Men here complain about lack of privacy over requirements to prove their identity. Photo ID, CC , phone number. ALL of these ideas have been repeatedly shot down by members claiming they want anonymity and fear a safety breech etc.
    Yet you want us pros to jump through hoops to prove that we are real and capable?
    Our safety from predators should be a priority. Not you willingly gambling to book with a new pro and possibly losing $80 to an obvious scammer with provocative photos.

  • dave31415dave31415
    edited May 2023

    @CharlesInWI Cuddling is supposed to be free. It’s a symmetric relationship. Each person is providing the same things for the other. The site started out that way (I believe). The only reason there are pros is because there is a mismatch in supply and demand between men and women enthusiasts. If men were happy to cuddle men (and some are), there would be no such need at all.

    No one is saying that women shouldn’t be able to charge money. If that’s what it takes for enough of them to engage with the site then so be it. But let’s not act like that’s the most natural thing ever in something that is normally a symmetric activity. We aren’t shocked to hear that women agree to go on dates (say on a dating site) without getting paid. It’s presumed that they are going to enjoy it equally. So I think if a woman pro is going to claim to be an expert cuddler, it’s not asking them that much to do it at least once for free. If that seems like such an awful thing, maybe they don’t really like cuddling much anyway.

    Reported and reviewed. Leaving intact but for anyone participating in this discussion, please focus on the question regarding karma and not rates pros should be charging (or offering for free). There is a mega thread for that. [Charlie_Bear]

  • cudbud64cudbud64
    edited May 2023

    There are pros who have training through outside resources like Cuddlist, who tend to have a higher rate. They should (be able to have a higher rate)

    I do think that using language like cuddle therapy when someone doesn't have a certification shouldn't be used. On site training / on boarding would likely weed out potential pros that aren't as committed.

  • RezzRezz
    edited May 2023

    Avoiding scammers is easy.
    Video chat with them beforehand.
    Don't pay deposit, if you're not comfortable.
    Don't pay until you arrive.

    This is another [expression of displeasure] about pros charging.

    It should be free.

    Well it's not. That won't change now or anytime soon. At some point we will have AI that you guys can [express displeasure] to about the days past when you had to pay a pro to sit and listen to you [express displeasure]. Nevermind you'll have to pay for that too.

    Reported and reviewed. Replacing a phrase with “express displeasure” 😇 [Charlie_Bear]

  • Midnight01Midnight01

    No. Of course not.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    This will be a great idea once the male members submit to background checks and DNA samples. Beyond that it is a pretty elaborate way of a guy saying give me a mercy cuddle.

  • [Deleted User]CharlesInWI (deleted user)
    edited May 2023

    @dave31415

    Um... Are you OK?

    Are you not aware that we are living in an end stage hyper-capitalist society that was founded on genocide and slavery by the fanatical zealots of a torture and death cult?

    "Cuddling is supposed to be free"... Did I miss the memo?

    The entire culture is transactional. Why would anything be exempt from that, except those things that market forces haven't figured out a way to turn into resources and charge for?

    Again, "ought to/supposed to/should be", can take flying leaps.

    If you want "free cuddles" then I am afraid you are going to have to do a LOT of work on yourself, and you will still find at the end of that process that those "free cuddles" only happened because YOU were also providing something that the person you got them from valued.

    Now, if you want to vent about how "unfair" all that is, I don't blame you.

    Entropy, aging, gravity, diseases, and death are all completely unfair too.

    The good news is that it is ENTIRELY up to you how much work you are willing to put in to get what you want.

    I urge you to not harm yourself or others during this process.

    And, to be clear, forcing anyone to do anything, even for, "their own good", or, "for the benefit of all", or even, "because the old storybook says so", IS causing harm...

  • WKplatonicWKplatonic
    edited May 2023

    With respect, I don't have a "yes" or a "no" to answer the question here; karma is just someone's opinion; We as clients need to learn how to vet better. Cuddling is platonic but still very intimate. When I look at someone's karma, I consider it, but in the end, other factors must come into play. I can't go on an opinion from a stranger. What are my needs and wants as it relate to platonic cuddling? Communication is the key. Does my personality fit theirs? Do I feel safe and comfortable with them and do they feel safe and comfortable with me?

  • CuddleWhoCuddleWho
    edited May 2023

    This kind of suggestion comes up sometimes and it always seems so incredibly naive to me. It makes me wonder if the person making the suggestion has ever actually met a pro cuddler. Or if they've even met a woman for that matter.

    There would be approximately zero pros if this were a requirement, and there wouldn't be any more women enthusiasts than there are now. 95% of pros are cuddling because they see it as an easy way to make some extra money. If you make it harder, those people will not think "I'll just spend a few weeks jumping through some hoops before I get paid," and they also won't think "I'll just be an enthusiast and not get paid at all." What they'll think is "Screw it, I'm not going to cuddle strangers for free" and they'll leave the site.

    Cuddling is supposed to be free. It’s a symmetric relationship. Each person is providing the same things for the other. The site started out that way (I believe).

    Yes, this is true. It's how the site got started. No pro cuddlers were allowed for years. And guess what: few men could find any cuddle partners at all. If you go read very old posts on the forum, from before pros were allowed, the forum was full of complaints about how there were no women to cuddle and no one replies to messages. Even more of those posts than now. AFAICT that's a major reason why the site decided to allow pros: otherwise most people on the site would never have a cuddle.

  • [Deleted User]WriterGF (deleted user)

    The list of professions where you don't have to provide a free service before you can charge for it is ridiculously long. I don't see why pro cuddlers should have to put themselves out there for free. If you're uncomfortable using a pro with no karma, just book with someone else.

  • [Deleted User]MrAdmirer (deleted user)

    this idea is ridiculous

  • dave31415dave31415

    @Rezz You sound like someone who hates cuddling and hates male customers. “Bitching and moaning”? You really have no empathy for men needing cuddling? Many men can probably only afford maybe $100/month for cuddling. So they get 1 hour once a month. Some probably can’t even afford that.

    They probably feel they need more like 2-3 hour a couple times a month or more. So even the cuddling they are paying for is not meeting their needs but it’s more than nothing.

    Having pros is great. There is a supply demand imbalance between men and women willing to engage as enthusiasts. And women can exploit that need to make some income. That’s capitalism. I love capitalism. No problem there. The fact that both cuddlers usually provide symmetric services is not relevant to price. Supply and demand determined price. It would be nice if there was a more balanced pool of enthusiasts but it’s not the case.

    But this site is for both enthusiasts and pros. It’s suppose to cater to both groups. But there isn’t much being done really for enthusiasts. It’s mostly about pros. I think more could be done to attract more female enthusiasts. That’s why I’m always talking about ways to improve safety (which of course helps pros as well). I think if the safety problem was solved that the imbalance would mostly go away.

    While this is the reality, I don’t like to see pros with no sympathy for enthusiasts. I don’t like to see pros who feel entitled to use this platform as if they are Uber drivers and have no interest in the cuddling community. Charge money if you want but realize there are some women who enjoy doing this and don’t feel they need money for it. Unfortunately just not enough of them.

  • dave31415dave31415

    @MrAdmirer You’re free to disagree. I haven’t voiced an opinion myself. But it’s definitely not a ridiculous idea. It’s a very normal idea to require some steps before being allow to make money using some platform.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel
    edited May 2023

    @dave31415 I think she does have empathy for men but very few men have empathy for women. For example, there are several threads by guys complaining about women charging, but very few women have started threads about men sexually assaulting women on here. The women that have started threads are usually on the verge of leaving the site or did so shortly thereafter. So yes, complaints about how much they charge gets old and pales in comparison to a woman walking into a strange man’s place. I imagine the adrenaline pumping from apprehension of how an appointment will go is off the charts for women.

  • JubalJubal

    Thought about this and answered "no" simply because we're able to look at cuddler profiles and make our choices based on the information we see. If I see a cuddler with no karmas, then I have the free choice to book with someone else who does have karma.

    If karma information was not available to view, then my answer might be different.

  • JasonCuddlesJasonCuddles

    @dave31415 > [quote] 3) We will see whether people like it. It’s around 50-50 right now. I’m guessing non-pros will like it better but veteran pros might like it too.[/quote] >

    I don't know how quotes work here. Anyways I wish to bring to attention that dictating people's actions by popular vote can be a problem. As long as people aren't causing harm I don't think you should tell anyone what they can or cannot do. Autonomy should be respected.

  • CuddleWhoCuddleWho

    @dave31415

    But this site is for both enthusiasts and pros. It’s suppose to cater to both groups. But there isn’t much being done really for enthusiasts.

    Actually theoretically the site is primarily for enthusiasts, and the pro stuff is just an extra bonus. Even now you can see sometimes posts and decisions by mods will make an attempt to cater to enthusiasts as the target users of the site. The ubiquity of pro cuddling isn't something the site did on purpose; it just happened as a natural result of men's and women's experience.

    I think more could be done to attract more female enthusiasts.

    I don't. There is a massive asymmetry between men's and women's social experience. Always has been. There's not anything one small site can do to overturn a ubiquitous social reality.

  • Midnight01Midnight01

    @dave31415 I enjoy reading your posts. But I believe you put WAY too much value on this site. These cuddlers, whether pro or enthusiasts (and we all agree there are basically zero out there) aren't here for the "hobby". It's first and foremost a business. If they meet some cool regulars on the side, that's a nice bonus. No guy has a right for cuddles. They only have $100 extra a month for cuddles? Christ, go work another job, or shave off some monthly expenses. These sob stories are really pathetic. Go get a girflriend or something to fuel those cuddle urges then. I believe pros charge too much, but I can't fault them if people are willingly to pay it.

  • dave31415dave31415

    @CuddleWho That's not true that there would be zero pros. There are already a bunch of hoops to jump through to become a pro and that doesn’t result in zero pros. And there usually is a set of hoops to jump through to join any platform for making money.

    As I said, I haven’t decided whether I think this is a good idea or not. But I think the main difference would be that it would reduce the number of half-hearted pros who don’t actually like cuddling but just like the money. So we would end up with better more dedicated pros.

    There are two ways to look at this site. One is as a community for people who like cuddling. That’s what it used to be as you have mentioned. And then it evolved to include pros and it seems that side has basically taken over. But do we really want it to just be a platform for transactional services and ditch the first part altogether. Some of the pros seem to think like that. The best pros in my opinion actually like cuddling and want to be part of both communities.

  • dave31415dave31415

    @JasonCuddles Where did I tell anyone to do anything? Just asked the question to see what people though of the idea. Seems to be trending towards No at the moment.

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