Last I checked the poll was about 33% Yes and 67% No. if anyone cares.
@dave31415 I didn’t mean to touch the topic discussion or poll at all. Me simply mistakenly adding a note to the topic instead of a comment automatically deleted the poll. So while I did closely read the poll and topic, I did not closely read it was a comment and not the topic that was flagged, and completely forgot polls get removed when editing those topics. That is on me, and I apologize for making that mistake.
That would force professional cuddlers to temporarily function as enthusiasts. I don't think most of them would down for that. While it may decrease the number of scammers, given that in order to be a scammer, one would need to be a "stealth pro," it would also drastically decrease the number of legitimate professional cuddlers on this site.
@dave31415 On a side note, I am curious what you think could be done to attract more female enthusiasts?
At some point we will have AI that you guys can bitch and moan to about the days past when you had to pay a pro to sit and listen to you bitch and moan.
Wow. It's not a good business practice to make a public display of contempt for a good portion of your client base. I hope they know how you really feel about them. You don't deserve their money if that's how you feel.
@MountainCuddles That comment was directed at a select few people. They know who they are. My amazing clients don't come to me to complain, they come to me to relax and be held. 🤔
Since you're so concerned, if someone never books with me again over being blunt, I wouldn't lose an ounce of sleep. I've been on a temporary hiatus for a couple of months focusing on customers who pay my bills and less on time wasters, perverts and chronic complainers who want freebies.
Speaking from a mod standpoint, no. Enough people think they're slick enough to get away with having false karma on their pages. Just because it's a dumb idea, doesn't mean people won't try. In fact, this idea would just encourage them more.
@dave31415 Should a s 3rd party Amazon Seller give merch for free until they get a certain amount of positive feedbacks? I've seen posts from you in other forums as well, You're an intelligent man but c'mon dude, let this one go.
@MountainCuddles I'm pretty positive she's not directing that at her actual clients. She's already expressed time & again it's very specific type of person that warrant such comments.
@Shake49 When people say , “that person I am insulting knows who they are”, the person they have in mind probably doesn’t get it and everyone else in the conversation thinks it might be them. That’s why the @ symbols is useful. Just one of the tactics which sends these discussions into a screaming match. Level of maturity really has to increase.
@Sooson You really think shipping a product is a good analogy for buying the services of someone selling some type of therapeutic service? I guess you could say it’s the same for prostitution but I don’t think that’s the business model analogy we are hoping for.
@dave31415 it has been interesting to watch this unfold today.
You've been on the site since 2015 and you have 8 karma.
I would think at this point you have seen the incredible amount of threads speaking to this exact topic. "How can we draw more female enthusiasts to the site so there can be enough of them for the amount of men." Its not a new frustration.
@dave31415 you said....
So again, I don’t really have a strong opinion either way but I think people are exaggerating the downsides Should people have to have karma to go pro? Was wondering if this would be a good idea. Would solve a couple of problems.
I don't think there's been any realistic thought process that would create an "upside" and maybe that's why you feel there's exaggerated negativity. @dave31415 mentions...
Might cut down on fraud from fake cuddlers and scammers.
This seems highly unlikely because people want to do things for the right heart reasons or not.
Would give pros at least a little practice for free before charging anyone.
Again.... scammers are going to scam.
Also would create a slight increase in enthusiast supply for cuddlers who find it difficult pay. What do people think?
And to this point.... even if you said "Enthusiasts must have 5 karma in order to become a pro" anyone could get that EASILY in a week if they were determined but once more, it doesn't make them more qualified.
Like @Shake49
If people come to the site in order to be a good cuddler, then they will put forth the effort to do that be it pro or enthusiast. If they want to take advantage of people, make a quick buck or they don't care about the other humans they are interacting with.... THEY WILL DO THAT AS WELL. Those hoops won't change that fact. It goes exactly the same for enthusiasts trying to find honest authentic enthusiasts no matter their gender. Just because there are a plethora of something doesn't mean there are plenty of GOOD people out there. @dave31415 you said
Some people just launched into that subject because IDK, they want to fight about everything. I suppose if you pay $100 and just get a terrible experience, it’s not the end of the World. Still I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad idea for someone to demonstrate the most basic level of interest in actually doing the job.
Maybe its because a lot of people on the site are exhausted from hearing the same basic complaint of "male enthusiasts can't get enough free cuddles because cuddling should be free" OR maybe its because they read all of the other things that you post and there is a feeling of entitlement that they have overlayed to your question being proposed here.
@CharlesInWI
You 100% know that I would cuddle you in an instant. Even if you are a self proclaimed drumming ogre that crochets cool stuff. 😊
Edited because I didn't make it clear who I was quoting.
@sillysassy
I do, in fact, thank you! And, of course, the feeling is mutual.
Thanks @sillysassy. Look folks at how she just responded respectfully. Please try that. Good example of mature adult communication.
The thing is, I don’t think this specific topic of having pros graduate from enthusiast (in the most minimal way) has been discussed. Of course maybe I’m wrong.
Some people are doing everything they can to spin what is said to make it sound like the the thing they want to fight about. This has nothing to do with whether pros should charge or whether they they charge too much. It has nothing to do with whether men should feel entitled to someone’s body. That’s what people want to fight about but it’s simply not the topic of conversation.
The fact that someone is mad at something else and finds some tangential connection to the present topic doesn’t mean they should project all those angry feelings all over the new poster. If everything triggers you then don’t post on forums. This is no one’s therapy session.
I often suggest ways of improving this site because it seems both pros and enthusiasts find it very frustrating and are not happy with the way it is. People seem to take just defeatist attitudes; scammers going to scam and rapists gonna rape. I don’t accept that. I think we can do better. But first we need to agree to try and discuss possible changes. People don’t like the way things are but get angry about suggestions for making it better. Makes no sense.
I also believe that there are as many women who want to cuddle as men, maybe even more. But there are a number of things that keep them from trying the site; safety being the biggest. I believe that is a solvable problem. But I won’t get into that here. I suppose some pros view female enthusiasts as competition that would ruin their business so I don’t expect them to want more of them. But still. This site is not just for pros. They need to understand that. If they can’t empathize, surely they can at least refrain from commenting on something that should be more of interest to other people.
@dave31415
There are already a bunch of hoops to jump through to become a pro and that doesn’t result in zero pros.
This just isn't true. There aren't a bunch of hoops. You just apply, and then it's likely you'll be approved within a few days. That's it. That's the whole process. There's another well known cuddle site where pros have to complete a course before becoming a pro, and that site has 1 or 2 pros in cities where CuddleComfort has 40 or more. I'll take the CuddleComfort approach any day - I'd rather have many pros with some possibility that they're not great, as opposed to hardly any pros with a somewhat stronger likelihood that they're good.
The best pros in my opinion actually like cuddling and want to be part of both communities.
I have no opinion about the community aspect, but I agree that the best pros actually like cuddling. Even then, they still wouldn't have met up with me without a financial incentive. They show up, I pay them, and we have a mutually enjoyable experience. That's great! That's what I like. But if I hadn't paid them, they wouldn't have shown up. And if the prospect of payment wasn't within easy reach, they wouldn't have even joined the site. That's a key part of the difference between the male and female social experience: men want to be near women by default; women want to be near men if there's some specific things that appeal to them.
@CuddleWho Yeah I basically agree with that. I don’t think that would necessarily cause a huge decrease but it’s possible. In some places there are even just so few pros that it would be impacted. There is no shortage of pros in major cities.
I’m totally fine with people taking a capitalist approach to it. Exploit what you can. That’s how every job works. But I also think that when you have karma as an enthusiast, you are actually providing a lot of value to a new pro who has none. You are giving them a first, safe and probably enjoyable experience and they will come out of that with their first karma making them far more marketable because men will read that first karma and be more comfortable. And we of course give that karma away free of charge. We also give them the opportunity to talk to someone with experience in the community and someone who will help them understand the mind of the customers in their new business. Is that worth a free session? Well I guess that can be debated.
“focusing on customers who pay my bills” This is why there are no female enthusiasts. Why do it for free when you can get paid? Realistically, how long do you think a female non pro can keep cuddling strangers? 6 months, a year max? Can you imagine how many requests they get? Men and woman are just different. Men will cast a cast large net, while woman have a much smaller net. It’s not going to change.
@Midnight01 Contrary to what is being said, there are actually quite a few female enthusiasts. Just not as many as males.
There are a lot of reasons why you might do it for free even when you might get paid. It’s similar why women have sex with men even though they could probably get money for it as well. It completely changes the nature of the relationship. It becomes a deeper friendship. You don’t have to have a rotating cast of customers. You might find one person you can cuddle with often and for longer periods of time. Maybe you’d like to have a man stay over and not have to track down someone willing to pay $1500 or whatever the going rate is.
There is nothing wrong with going pro but it shouldn’t be too hard to see why some woman want to stay enthusiast.
No, @dave31415 , it’s not a good idea. Interesting, you haven’t issued similar requirements for the other 1/2 of the cuddling equation, i.e. in order to be able to receive these mandatory charity cuddles, the person must have karma also AND have paid for a cuddle previously.
Like @CharlesInWI said early on, “Do I have to qualify to qualify the qualifiers?” He totally recognized there’s a HUGE power imbalance with a potential for abuse.
Your attempt at effective altruism fails because it’s forced charity, at best. We know forced charity isn’t really charity. It’s NOT a solution.
In reality, you haven’t even considered the physical danger or safety involved for cuddlers, you’re just focused on how to get free cuddles.
@dave31415 No Dave. You just don’t get it. There is basically zero female cuddle enthusiasts on this site. There are 2 female non pro cuddlers within 50 miles of Chicago, (where I live) who have any Karma in the last month. And it’s all only 1 Karma, and one is 19 years old and bisexual. I found it very inappropriate to cuddle with a 19 year old who 99% wouldn’t cuddle with me anyways. Most of these profiles are non active, fake, or just set up once and never checked again. It’s a pay site, just live with it. All of your karma are from pros anyways. You been on this site for many year already. Your utility from this site is over. If you haven’t found what you are looking for, then you probably won’t ever find it.
Pros have been begging to get some kind of screening, better education, tools, and a way to avoid repeat offenders from returning to the site where they are continuously physically and emotionally harming pros. BUT ... Quite a few men here are vehemently opposed to this. They don't want to submit their I.Ds, phone numbers, and have a fear of a possible data breach.
But when a pro doesn't show, scams a member out of money, skips away with a deposit or is just lazy and has no interest in being in your presence suddenly we need better screening for all the pros. I wish that's all I had to worry about everytime I walked into a session. We are not the real threat here.
You guys have it easy. Video call, don't send money prior to the session. Discuss boundaries expectations, etc. The system would be abused. If someone wants to scam they will find a way. We already battle predatory members pouncing on new pros the moment their profile is approved. Let's not make it even easier for them to find their victims by placing expectations that we are required to give away X free cuddles to be approved to charge. It's just a bad idea all around. There's better ways to screen everyone here without asking for us to give away our time, for free.
For the record, I'm not competing with anyone here. I send a select few local pros all of my legitimate inquiries.
@AllAboutSoul Thanks for providing the counter example to sillysassy.
Let’s break this down just for group learnings on argumentation in general.
Argument is that I should be criticized because my suggestion does not also make another unrelated suggestion. And therefore we should assume that I have the disfavored opinion on that other topic. This is like arguing that someone saying that women should not make false accusations of rape WITHOUT also saying that men should not rape women implies that the person is in favor of men raping women.
Some vague comment about “qualifiers”. Ok.
“There is a HUGE power imbalance with a potential for abuse”. Let’s just say something vague that has no clear connection to the topic.
My altruism is false charity. Hmmm. What is false charity and what could my “altruism” possibly be describing.
“It’s NOT a solution”. Presumably we are back on topic and “it” refers to the subject of the pole. So this is just a statement of opinion on the topic with strong emphasis but no accompanying argument.
And to conclude…. An accusation that I haven’t considered the safety of the cuddlers. The person evidently isn’t familiar with my posts which are often in reference to increasing the safety of cuddlers on the site including ways of utilizing technology to do so. But ok. Might as well just throw out a random comment about what another person thinks.
I’m not sure what safety has to do with this poll question anyways. Wouldn’t seeing a enthusiast with lots of karma be safer than whoever is willing to pay for your first session? Isn’t your second, third and … 50th cuddle session going to have the same danger.
And this is really a nefarious plan for me to get free cuddles. Even though I haven’t even expressed an opinion on which way I voted.
Sorry to pick on you but I think it might be instructive.
No . You shouldn't have to work for free as a prerequisite to be paid. Also would add to the dumpster fire of complaints about someone cuddling as a non pro but now they want to charge, as well as complaining that nobody will message back due to the overwhelming amount of men wanting to cuddle before they turn pro . Plus will drive more women away due to the endless messages of said men who want their chance to cuddle for free. Bad idea , one sided, and comes across as just another way to complain about pros and whether you feel they are worthy of your patronage
For the record (because people seem to think this matters) I am against this proposal. The point of course was to learn what you guys think not what I think. I don’t need to do a poll to figure out what I think.
I think we need to change the forum format or something. People can’t be expected to read the entire thread when they are long. And so they read something and comment on what they read. Even if they tag someone, that person has no idea which post they are referring to and probably then responds with a completely different context form what the other person was talking about.
On top of that, there is this strange tendency for people to interpret what someone says in the worst way possible, assume they must also have some disfavored opinions on some other topic and then argue against that other non-connected opinion.
Then new people come along and read these attacks and just guess what the original person must have said to trigger it rather than reading their original post.
And following this descent into madness an original Question like “How can I meet more enthusiasts?” gets transmogrified into “How can I purchase a sex slave to keep in my basement?” because we all know what men think.
Honestly I’d like to assume that it is something about the forum format that does this rather than it being something about the community.
How much scamming actually goes on with pros on this site? I’ve been on since 2015, have seen many pros and have never been scammed. My positive experiences astronomically outweigh my negative ones. Have I just been lucky? What all is going on out there?
Yeah, I've been here quite a while myself and haven't met any scammers either. I'm pretty active in messaging as well. Are people really coming across scammers? Seems like the site does a pretty good job with it.
A proper quote system would work. On older forums I visited you would hit reply on a specific post and you could quote everything very easily and people knew what everyone was responding to. The quote would include who said it too. The format was something like [quote author=bob] blah blah [/quote]
The quote system on this forum doesn't seem to work for me and honestly I can't be bothered to figure it out.
I just came back from a cuddle. Catfished so hard. She looked 10 years older than the girl in the photo, and the girl in the photo wasn't even her.
@ocean900 you should have left immediately then. I assume you weren't being forced to stay. If you paid money up front then you have (hopefully) learned a valuable lesson.