I’ve been thinking about it and I’m not letting psychological barely veiled toxicity toward me slide. @Minestrone101 If you’d like to do so when being spoken to that’s up to you. But it’s not something I need to turn a blind eye to. Nor will I. @natickben and I have both pointed it out. If anyone feels the need to act like it’s not happening or enter a co dependent relationship that’s your thing. The person in question is an adult, and not stupid. Loved the condescension in the last comment by the way. “You can’t put one by on an editor and a professor of rhetoric.” No you can’t. It’s messed up and we called him on it. I don’t hate you. I can’t say we’re eye to eye at the moment. Stand up for it all you want. But I’m not letting people talk to me that way without comment. You’ll notice the what was said was simpering sugary preschoolers rhetoric one moment then level headed adult the next. What happened last night was incredibly disturbing. The manipulation was off the charts. So I’m going to say something about it when it happens. I’m not going to let myself and or the people here I care about be messed with like that. And if people don’t like the fact that it’s being called out appeal to the person using the toxic script to drop it rather than gaslighting the people pointing out it’s wrong.
Bring Customer Service back. That would be my Utopia. For example when I'm at the BK drive thru and you say "welcome to Burger King where you rule" say it like you mean it dammit.
@Sooson 😂😂😂
@stormydaycuddle Fair enough. And I wasn't being condescending or patronizing. I was serious. As a lit major and at one point aspiring school teacher, I have great respect for the editorial process and rhetoric. You essentially caught his hand in the cookie jar. That's all good.
Personally, for me, I save my power pellets for another day unless needed. I try to let the rest slide - in my case, it's a low stakes game. But I wasn't the one that was really talked down to, so there's that.
Either way, I wish y'all a good day in this fine Saturday morning.
@Minestrone101 ty. And believe me I truly am sorry that we disagreed. I’m not joking either. I think this is the first time we publicly didn’t see eye to eye. I apologize if at any point I was too harsh. I was really trying not to be. I do have a bite when I’m upset. Have a great morning.
@stormydaycuddle I still have a few marks on
@stormydaycuddle It's good to call out bad behavior, and I'm glad for people like you. And @natickben. It's just that in the past on this forum, I've seen many people come in with a disturbing communication style/comments and were getting roasted in the forums for being a troll, but some of them just seemed that they weren't aware of what they were doing and went on to become kind forum contributors. Others got banned or deleted their accounts so those were either legitimate trolls or had mental health issues that this forum can't help with. And I wasn't sure if this was one of those cases of genuine ignorance rather than feigned ignorance like a malicious troll would do. If this was in person it would be really easy for me to tell, but it's hard for me to discern someone's intent over pure digital text.
@sunnysideup then I look forward to a time when it doesn’t happen. I’m not trying to be rude. I’m standing up for myself and I wasn’t happy that when I called it out it’s me who gets chastised. I’m not the one with the script. When this isn’t his usual manner of speaking anyway. So if anything I think if he isn’t aware being made aware might be for the best. But I’m not letting him speak to me that way without pointing out that it is a script used by many and not an argument but psychologically hurtful
@stormydaycuddle Hopefully I didn't contribute to your feeling like you were chastised, and if I did I sincerely apologize. Whether his intent is malicious or not, it's good to be made aware that the communication style is manipulative. If he isn't a troll, he's going to improve with the way he makes inquiries.
What began has a fun little thought experiment yesterday about creating Utopia, really revealed, instead, a frightening, totalitarian mindset. Here's what happened:
A Professor of Rhetoric proposed an idea for a Utopia. His idea intrigued me. (That's a compliment, by the way.)
I asked a simple, straightforward question about personal motivation in the absence of money or capital.
The Professor of Rhetoric couldn't, or wouldn't, answer the question.
And that's it.
But that wasn't it.
My question became the problem. The Professor, along with an Editor, concluded that I was not just asking a question. No, no, no. I was a shadowy conspirator weaving a complex, 3D chess-like, web of deep, reverse psychological deception, and not a single word or syllable of mine could be trusted.
Sadly, this is a very typical reaction of totalitarians against people whom they accuse of being engaged in wrongthink.
No, @Minestrone101 , I was not caught with my hand in some proverbial cookie jar.
I asked a simple question, and the Professor couldn't answer it.
No, @sunnysideup , I was not engaged in some disturbing communication style and "bad" behavior.
No, dear Editor, I was not toxic, trolling, or moving goalposts around.
Am I upset that the Professor couldn't answer my question? No. In my humble opinion, Utopia is unachievable, but I could be wrong. So I have a genuine curiosity about other people's opinions on the matter. And a well thought out idea, like the Professor's, deserved some light-hearted examination.
And that's all there was to it.
Fortunately for me---very fortunately, actually---this is only an internet forum and not an actual totalitarian society, where those accused of wrongthink have themselves and their entire family accused of heinous crimes, and are disappeared.
And that is all.
There is some wrong thinking here, but “wrongthink?” 🤣🤣
Sorry, but this is just inane. Also typical when someone insincere is called out on their insincerity. Certainly, I chose not to engage in bad faith debate. I continue to choose that. But this self-victimization nonsense is just that.
To seriously answer the question the OP presented.... Money and atuff aside If everyone treated each other with actual respect. That's all we really need in life to be better. (This is not aimed at anyone in the comments)
@stormydaycuddle - No worries. We don't always have to agree to respect each other. I am not upset. No need to apologize.
@TxTom That's ok. I was talking about a hypothetical situation. I believe it's very low stakes on my part, and I was having fun too. And you still look like Greg Kinnear. Cheers.
@TxTom I actually enjoyed that short story format. lol It's clean and poignant and jumps out of the page. Nice. lol
@Minestrone101 Thank you. I have no ill will against you or anyone else. I was just trying to explore a very intriguing topic.
@Jova114
If everyone treated each other with actual respect.
Agreed. That's really all we need to do to achieve utopia, I think.
@txtom the change in tone and critical thinking skills between now and when you said you’d ask no more questions is astounding. Stop using the toxic tactics and we’ll stop calling you out on it. That simple. The fact that you’re trying to use @natickben ‘s profession against him as an argument as to why you deserve an answer is the same thing. ‘A professor couldn’t even answer a question’ no he chose not to engage with the toxicity and in essence what you said was questioning the merit of our professions as ammunition. Keep going I’ll keep pointing it out.
It is exactly as @natickben said. So I’ll stop engaging.
And despite you and I apparently not agreeing on anything, @stormydaycuddle , you'll always be my favorite forum snark shark. Hugs.
If there was a contest to get as many people to believe I was psychologically trolling as possible, I would have a freaking medal. I'm slowly learning to let things go. It's not worth the the drama.
@txtom the change in tone and critical thinking skills between now and when you said you’d ask no more questions is astounding. Stop using the toxic tactics
@stormydaycuddle @natickben Exactly. It’s why I stayed out of it. Same thing as not indulging a child that just says stuff to get attention—it is pointless and mindless. They never truly want answers, they only want to be right or play the victim card. Let them have the reward of an echo chamber of themself.
A brief answer to my simple question would have taken one short post.
Instead, the analysis of why I dared to ask a question has taken up two entire pages.
@TxTom It isn't that you're asking questions, it's the way you are asking and phrasing your responses that comes across as seeming manipulative. Being called out is never fun so I get that there is a desire to argue for one's own good faith, but I'm just letting you know how it appears to me and a few others. You're free to engage with people as you wish since this is an open forum, but people are free to engage back also as they wish. You may butt heads less if you heeded some of the advice here.
@Mike403, yes, not everyone is malicious, sometimes things just get lost in online communication. Sometimes people are though, and of course they won't admit that. Some also refuse to do self-reflection and grow. I've had my moments of being misinterpreted and and painted as the bad guy, I've had moments of self-reflection on here and changed the way I engage with the forum. Someone once blocked me over a message when I had 0 ill will at all. But it's just the internet and not the end of the world, as @TxTom pointed out. And as @Minestrone101 pointed out, this is a thread about Utopias, which don't exist, so I'm just treating this as hypothetical fun and not emotionally invested in defending any ideas on here
@sunnysideup Then please, this is an open invitation, for you, @Minestrone101 , @stormydaycuddle , or anyone reading this, to please rephrase my original question about motivation/capital in any way you see fit, that will elicit a response from the Professor about motivation/capital.
I mean, it’s entirely illustrative that the thing you are complaining about me not answering is, in fact, something I answered. 🤣🤣🙄
@natickben shh!!! I was listening to the echooooooo. 😂🎶🎧☮️😌
"Thou shall respond to all forum posts"
I was wondering what was on that tablet that Moses dropped and broke.
@TxTom I'm here for the cuddles and discussion. I'm def not qualified to revise language in a tense rhetorical situation.
I will say that as a philosopher, it appears his wanting to banish currency is perhaps a means to ensure everyone has enough. I think reintroducing currency appears to be allowing capitalism to return, which allows more folks to get rich and more folks to get poor again as well as destroying people's, the environment , and natural resources in the same of profit.
@TxTom I would personally remove these comments:
"Or will we go back to living in caves, foraging for food, and rubbing sticks together? -
"Dissolving Chase bank will reduce the frequency of hot summers and hurricanes?" - Sounds snarky rather than curious. Leaving it at asking about the correlation between a common currency/financial institutions and the environment was fine, imo
'I'm just asking questions, that's all.' - we went over this one in an earlier post, but to reiterate, it has the tone of when some people say 'no offense, but' before they say something offensive or negative.
Those would be my edits - also, this part:
"I asked a simple, straightforward question about personal motivation in the absence of money or capital.
The Professor of Rhetoric couldn't, or wouldn't, answer the question."
The professor did give a basic, one sentence response saying that people would be more motivated by means of survival (food and pooling resources as a community). Your lack of ackknowledgement of this furthers shows that you are either arguing in bad faith or are not aware that you are not communicating effectively. He also mentioned that he doesn't have a desire for a debate, and so didn't need to oblige responding to your rebuttal of the dismantling of financial institutions.
Hopefully this helps
@TxTom I'd have to mention that I'm not great with pure semantics, but I'm trying to help out