@atmachine here here!
I was talking the other day with three women at work about a dating reality show. Now I don't normally watch reality TV at all but I thought it would be fun to watch along with them and chat about it.
Well there was this one guy on the show who cried because he had fallen for a woman and he kissed another woman and so she left him. And all three women at my work vehemently and immediately came down hard on him. "I would never be with a guy who cried like that," they all agreed. They said other harsh things too but I don't remember exactly. Basically the real men don't cry bs. I let them go on for a minute.
Then I said don't you want men to show their feelings? Aren't you all always talking about toxic masculinity? They then said, "Well men can cry but only about certain things." And I said being dumped and feeling regret isn't one of them, ok.
Sheesh. And these were all younger women (30's) - not old like me.
@billiam Their brains and life experience haven't fully developed yet. 🤦 I can't stand those shows, yet I can't stop watching! I know it's not real but some of the interactions are. Sometimes I feel I'm not from this planet because so often I'm observing humans and they are such a strange species. To top it off, they never pick the one I think they would be perfect for no matter how much I yell at the tv. Nooooo not THAT one!
I am so glad that all the Swifties, stalking TayTay in the web have seen the big, tough Kelce brothers cry, hard, on the field, or when hugging each other or their mom after big wins and losses. Great for boys & men to see it, too. Real men have feelings that they need to share. We all heard dads, coaches tell our brothers ‘men don’t cry!!’ But that is a soul-damaging myth. Real men DO cry, and women should feel honored to be a safe place for someone to set down his burdens for a while. I’ll get down off my soapbox now; the air is kinda thin up here. 🙂
we do?
~ Sunset Snuggles
🦄 Enthusiast 🏞 Travel Fiend 🐘 Animal Lover
Happy summer vibes! 🐬 🎹
@dennis22554 If you’ve never been so hurt or angry or just damn sad that your eyes water uncontrollably, god bless you. I wish everyone could have the life experience you’ve had. If your ‘We do?’ comment was about something else or someone else’s post, please ignore above.
@AimeeJ ha ha yes it can be maddening! It is fun to watch trash once in a while
@MarigoldBloom I agree. But I have to add that I've heard it as much from women as from men. And when a woman you like says it, or shows that she'll reject you if you cry, it's much more impactful than some jock at school. Or even dad.
I'm not saying you meant this, but there is this myth that these messages only, or mostly, come from men to men. But it's not true. I spent 10 hours with mom for every hour I spent with dad. And she hammered it in pretty good. Men are tough. Only babies cry. And like I said above, as an adult I was so excited to find a girlfriend. Surely a woman who loved me would be kind to me when I cried. But the few women I dated and the woman I married all hated it. And that caused me to shut off my feelings for about 10 years. Finally I'm opening up again, but it has taken a lot of work and like I said, I just had 3 adult women tell me they'd reject a man who cries. The guy at work says men don't cry too, but I don't care what he says. I do care what the women say, for some stupid reason.
@billiam You are so right- I was completely ignoring that women’s shitty, stupid comments, especially mothers and girlfriends, could rip up a boy and man much worse than trash talk from other guys. I feel embarrassed to have posted what I did, but I’m also glad because you stepped up and corrected my skewed perspective. And you did it very respectfully, without criticism or shaming my ignorance. Thank you. I’ve been an enthusiast for just 2 weeks, and I am so grateful to have the opportunity to hear men speak honestly (it’s mostly men on the threads I’ve seen so far).
@billiam
Crying can be a sign of bravery. It often takes courage to express vulnerable emotions, especially in cultures or contexts where showing emotion is perceived as a weakness. Crying and expressing genuine feelings openly can demonstrate strength, self-awareness, and authenticity. It shows a willingness to confront and share deep emotions, which can be a brave act.
@PeopleLikeUs 💯 I would just change it from "can be" to "is".
@billiam posted: "Surely a woman who loved me would be kind to me when I cried. But the few women I dated and the woman I married all hated it."
A woman who loves you should absolutely be supportive, nurturing, and give you reassurance, when you cry. I'm so sorry to hear that you didn't experience or receive that.
Some of the men in my life tear up. Some cry. Some never let me see them cry, even in very deserving circumstances. With the latter, I always wish and hope that through my words and actions, someday they will feel comfortable enough to experience that emotion in my presence.
Because everyone feels sadness, everyone experiences grief. Everyone feels lonely at some point, or like a failure, or scared, or overwhelmed.
Everyone deserves a safe place, with safe people, to feel and let out their emotions...no matter their gender, or age.
@SunsetSnuggles I said "can be" because some people suffer from emotional overload.
These people can be well-assisted by learning to identify triggers and practicing emotional regulation techniques like deep breathing or mindfulness. Engaging in regular physical activity, maintaining a healthy lifestyle, and seeking support from friends or professionals also helps. Developing coping strategies, setting boundaries, and practicing self-compassion can also reduce emotional overwhelm.
What you are expressing is valid for you based on your experience. Other people's experiences differ, and that is valid for them. Expressing opinion is fine. Claiming that it is universal fact while insulting those who disagree with you is not fine. - JoyfulHeart [Moderator]
@MarigoldBloom ah don't feel embarrassed! I wasn't even sure you meant only men say these things. I just wanted to make sure both sides were represented welcome to the site! I hope you find some good cuddles.
@SunsetSnuggles thank you. And I agree with you. That's a big part of why I left the marriage.
@JohnR1972 Ron Swanson. I can smell the bacon popping now.
Comment removed because it is in response to another comment that has been removed.
I feel like taking a nap. And it's only 9 am.
The idea that man don't/shouldn't cry is completely toxic. It's a perfectly normal part of being human, we all have the same emotions and range to express them naturally, it's our social conditioning that teaches us to reject certain emotions in order to be accepted socially. The idea that men are these unfeeling machines that can only experience anger, lust and hunger is a patriarchal concept and it's just one example of how that system hurts literally everyone.
@billiam Something you seem to have missed about that interaction with those women is the context of the guy crying. While I absolutely agree that there is a strong stigma against men crying period, and I can't say for sure if that was all their comments were about (obvi I wasn't there), but the timing of his tears is extremely important. From what you've described, the man was into a woman, then kissed another woman, then gets dumped by the woman he's into as a natural consequence for his actions, and only then does he cry. This chain of events is suuuuper common in breakups with toxic, emotionally manipulative/abusive men who only use their tears to try and get what they want. There are also literally thousands of videos on the internet of men getting confronted with cheating that immediately throw a childlike tantrum, start sobbing, begging, and generally just acting like the world is ending, but if she takes him back he does it all over again the first chance he gets. Because his emotional display, his tears are only used as a weapon to manipulate her, not as a way to express their genuine emotions like sadness or remorse, it has forced women to be very suspicious of men who do shitty things to others, then cry about it. 🤷🏼 And again, it doesn't mean that these women didn't also hold toxic beliefs like "real men don't cry" or anything like that, they probably do on some level, but ignoring the context of his use of tears at that specific time is missing a major point in why women so often react so strongly to men crying after they do something shitty to women. It's like men who only bring up their own grievances when a woman is trying to resolve real relationship problems, it's not actually about trying to resolve the issues collaboratively, it's a tactic to derail the conversation so he won't have to take accountability for his actions. Doesn't mean he doesn't also have valid grievances, hurt feelings and real pain that should be addressed, of course he does, but brining them up as a way to manipulate and get his way instead of finding a healthy time to address those issues so they can be resolved is never ok.
I found tears came more easily after my divorce, because I had to be away from my child half the time. Too many goodbyes in a month. I still get emotional watching movies where people have to part or get reunited.
@Runawaycuddles That makes sense. And I wouldn't feel the same about a guy who was crying in order to manipulate. That would be abusive in my book.
Not that it matters, because your point is valid, she had already left him. He was crying by himself (even off camera until they intruded). So I don't think he was trying to manipulate anyone, but who knows. I wasn't there and they edit the footage however they want.
And of course what he did was wrong. For sure.
But the three women all said, very loudly and passionately, I would never be with a guy who cried like that. I think once I called them on it, they backtracked a little. And said men can cry about certain things. But that passionate, first, instinctive response is what sticks with me. Their "men can cry about certain things" comment is still invalidating, and it was said with no passion or commitment behind it.
Ive met women who are not like this. So it's just some women (and of course men too).
But I will also add that the tears and feelings I've had rejected by women were not in this context. The vast majority of the time they had nothing to do with the woman at all. They were about my family or something I was working out in therapy.
Old Yeller is a legitimate reason to cry.
The main reason I posted this is this movie came out on 1981 and while comedy, you can see the macho group think that was pretty normal back then—look around the room at the other dudes and make sure you are not the guy who admitted he cried at a movie scene. Now think about how it felt back then if you were a guy and really needed a cry. If you can’t admit to privately crying, how are you ever going to be able to cry in front of others.
@billiam Yup, once the idea is planted in people's minds it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Parents and society teaches children these fucked up social norms. Men clam up emotionally and suffer doing it. Then women suffer the consequences by being the most likely target for men's frustration. Both groups suffer from feeling disconnected and struggle to really grow emotionally in isolation. Anyone who breaks with the norm is shunned. Aaaaand so both groups teach their children to believe the same things to avoid the ultimate pain of being being shunned. 🤷🏼
It's a vicious cycle that would require multiple generations to fully stop passing the idea on to their kids to prevent it from poisoning the next generation, and while some are doing that here and there, it'll take a while before it gets fully stopped on its tracks. Can be done, it's just gonna take a lot of time and money, mostly spent in therapy unpacking all this shit 😑
I was taught early on that there's appropriate and inappropriate times and places for men to cry. To this day, I won't cry in front of strangers. I don't feel that it's "fucked up" or bad - for me it's just a matter of behavior reserved for family and friends.
Exceptions are things like movie theaters (certain scenes in Saving Private Ryan, or The Two Towers when King Theoden regains his faculties), because usually the people around one are watching the movie, and not other viewers.
I don't cry in front of most people either. There are maybe 5 people I'd cry in front of. And it almost never happens, except for my therapist.
I also am careful who I share many of my feelings with too. Too many bad reactions, not enough good ones. But I do work on it.
I found myself crying after listening to the families of fallen soldiers describing their suffering after losing a loved one.It was almost too painful for me to watch.
Oh man. Sorry to hear that @billiam (and others)! All humans need to feel like they're allowed to express sadness however works for them. It's totally natural....and going against nature that way can mess with a person's ability to regulate their emotions in healthy ways. 😢😢😢