Are old fashioned courting traditions truly dead?

dennis22554dennis22554
edited August 2025 in General

I have a special friend whom I open car doors...both getting in the car and getting. She is a smart woman and has both arms and is perfectly capable of opening and closing the doors herself
Yet ..I always get a huge smile which leads to repeate behavior. The funny thing is...I absolutely love the tradition and would hate to see it and other ones go away. Therefore I ask...are these traditions truly dead because they seem to bring a little bit of sunshine into the world!

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Comments

  • TxTomTxTom

    They're timeless courting traditions, not old-fashioned.

    And, no, they're not.

  • _marC_marC

    They're timeless courting traditions, not old-fashioned.

    And, no, they're not.

  • CelticLullabyCelticLullaby
    edited August 2025

    Nerdy info-dump alert:
    They aren’t truly timeless acts as most originated during the era of actual courts when women’s clothing became so elaborate that they literally could not open doors because their steel or bone corset and hoop skirts prevented them from bending over or reaching out.

    Opening a door or picking up a handkerchief for a lady was literally done for someone you would call “my lady” because she could afford a giant dress that didn’t allow her to move. She literally couldn’t open the door. The lower class women usually had a little more flexibility in their outfits and could do things like open doors or pick up things up they dropped. (How plebeian!)

    I learned all this from a theatrical costume designer who joked that ladies became manipulative because they physically couldn’t move and had to get others to do things for them.

    So basically a lot of our courting customs were shaped by underwear.

    But currently I think any action that shows true consideration and kindness for someone is great. I hold doors open for others too. I don’t mind when men do it for me unless they are using it as a way to get something from me or show-off how they’re so gentlemanly but it’s more about them than just being a considerate person which I always appreciate.

  • _marC_marC

  • MonkeyNeedsAHugMonkeyNeedsAHug
    edited August 2025

    To my mind what distinguishes this old fashioned “court”esy / from the sort of kindness that I hope we keep with us in the future is the rigidity with which good manners reenforce gender-based norms and expectations.

    In other words, a man who thinks it’s good manners to hold a door open for a “lady”, but will let it swing shut on another man would do well to reexamine this so-called chivalry.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel
    edited August 2025

    I don’t think you should look at it in terms of if the tradition is dead or alive. It’s just different now. You might open the door and they might say you first. Many women appreciate the gesture depending on the context. I have met a couple of women who said if my hands are full and a man opens the door, then that is kindness and they would do the same for anyone else themselves. In that instance it is an act of civility. But if a man rushes ahead to open the door when the woman is unencumbered and then expects a thank you, then it can be construed in different ways and these women told me they do not feel compelled to say thank you for what they did not ask for because they are not helpless.

    Just read the room. It is really not that hard. If they accept your gesture…bravo. If they decline and insist you go first, then go first. Traditional isn’t always right, nor is a new way. Opening doors falls into the basket of the lessons learned from cuddling—check in with the person or read the other person’s body language or gestures. Not everyone will consent even if the majority does. But forced “kindness” is not kindness at all.

  • dennis22554dennis22554

    Certainly recall bad behavior being a part n of b this b po s t

  • TenderEmbracesTenderEmbraces

    I only had one man in my life who opened doors habitually, cleaned my car and pumped my ⛽ gas , ironed my clothes, polished my shoes and boots and lotioned me daily head to toe after bathing. He was 15 years my senior and I'm find he is a tough act to follow. Lololol . That's what lead me to cuddling after he died. Okay folks listen and don't judge okay?

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @dennis22554 Where did anyone say anything about bad behavior?

  • dennis22554dennis22554
    edited August 2025

    Why yes they did the suggeston that a person that opens the door b for a women may let it slam in the face of a man

  • RunawaycuddlesRunawaycuddles

    @CelticLullaby I was just about to talk about this because YES!

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @dennis22554 I see why you might interpret that as bad behavior but I think he was making the point that kindness should be extended to all, not just in the traditional chivalrous way. Yes it is bad behavior but it was used to make a good point.

  • TenderEmbracesTenderEmbraces

    I read someplace that in modern times it is courteous to hold the door be it a man or a woman depending on who reaches the door first.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @TenderEmbraces I have heard that as well. But like anything in the world today, it depends on who you are dealing with. But I agree with that assessment. However I still open doors because I found my nose to be sore quite often when I didn’t.

  • innersmileinnersmile

    I think it’s safe to say that both men and women value respect, kindness, and thoughtfulness. But sometimes actions which some people may enjoy and appreciate - may trigger others. We don’t live in a one-size-fits-all world. Awareness, communication, and calibration are important to maintain harmony and balance between two people.

  • TheFunCartelTheFunCartel

    @innersmile 💯

  • dennis22554dennis22554

    I thank everyone for b their input but going back to my original post....I was a imply saying that opens ing car doors are among many of the older traditions are ones that continued to be actively promoted today

  • IronicMaidenIronicMaiden

    Therefore I ask...are these traditions truly dead because they seem to bring a little bit of sunshine into the world!

    .I was a imply saying that opens ing car doors are among many of the older traditions are ones that continued to be actively promoted today

    You were asking, not implying.

    As for me, I like the equality of someone not running around to my side of the car and assuming I can't open a car door. I do like other people holding a door for me. I also hold doors for other people. When going through a vestibule, I engage in the dance where the first person holds the first door and the second person holds the second door.

    I'm not sure what the point of this post was.

  • fluffy_gamerfluffy_gamer
    edited August 2025

    @CelticLullaby That's some great information a fellow nerd could use for D&D worldbuilding! LOL. I love hearing about stuff in the world to use for cultures in my world, and hearing about how certain traditions came about to see how things naturally evolve.

    For my input on the topic --- while we have plummeted into degeneracy in general in the world, tradition, courting, and good manners will never truly die. There are a certain sect of "people" who shun chivalry, politeness, and the roles we play as humans that have been proven over tens of thousands of years. But it has been quite proven (tea app leak lololol) that those who say it is dead tend to be repugnant and lonely themselves.

    Politeness is just good. I'll hold the door open for anyone, doesn't matter what they have in their pants. It's nice to help and serve.

  • great_pillow08great_pillow08

    Essentially, yes and I'm "good" with it because the expectation of getting to take her home to his place just because he bought dinner has SOMEHOW re-emerged and N-O!!! There are FAR TOO MANY DUDES "crying" about being expected to be ACTUAL M-E-N while women are expected to be BOTH- The amount of resentment males have towards women for wanting to be women IS INSANE!! There's a balance to "this" and I don't believe the majority of EITHER gender has figured out where that is yet. It's why women are choosing to stay single and the birth rate's down- And this will be temporary, but there's ABSOLUTELY an explanation for it and until BOTH genders figure "this" out, things will stay off balance.

  • fluffy_gamerfluffy_gamer

    @great_pillow08 that says more about you than any man you're referring to

  • MorpheusMorpheus

    From my observations, I think the men of the younger generation, don’t know how to be gentleman and the women of the younger generation don’t know what a gentleman is.

  • Carrie_AnneCarrie_Anne

    i cant imagine not holding the door open for anyone near me and I find that most people of all ages are still pretty considerate. I’m not sure why parents wouldn’t still emphasize good manners.
    But I’ve been shocked a few times when a young man going through the door just steps in front of me has let it slam in my face. I just have to believe he didn’t see me there. Young women have tended to be way more polite to me.

  • wilderdudewilderdude

    IDK, i hold doors for everybody, regardless of whether i'm courting them or they are a man/woman w/e. Had the same with me. Only time this gets akward is when people hold a door open and i'm way too far back lol, gott hurry and get there..

    "thank you" seems to be a thing younger folk are allergic to saying. I made a habit of calling my son 'sir' and saying 'thank you' and 'please' to him when he was as young as he could talk. Grateful he carried that into adulthood.

    Opening car doors a different thing, not a fan of that. lol.

  • RunawaycuddlesRunawaycuddles

    @dennis22554 To answer your original question, traditions that are maintained by even one person have not yet died, and even fully dead traditions can often be revived if the culture in question naturally shifts back to that previous mindset. Traditions only truly die if all fundamental knowledge of those practices is lost, and based on the fact that we're still talking about a system of behavior that is believed to be originated in the middle ages, I think it's safe to say that true death of that tradition is nearly impossible within even the next several generations.
    I'm glad you and your special friend enjoy maintaining that tradition in your own lives, what makes each of us happy often looks very different, and it looks like you've found a part of yours.

    The general shift away from what is considered "gentlemanly" and "chivalrous" (both being somewhat relative terms depending on who you ask) may seem like a deeply sad impoverishing of the way romantic relationships work nowadays, but culture shifts don't happen in a vacuum. 🤔 There is always context that illustrated why shifts like these happen, and in this case that context rapidly became incompatible with our progression past viewing women as possessions rather than people.
    This context doesn't necessarily change an individual person's enjoyment of the traditional way of doing things, but a shift in perspective provided by the historical context, is not evidence of some kind of inescapable moral degradation.

    I mean, hell, most gendered traditions and expectations we have in our society are the direct result of behaviors and beliefs that are incompatible with equality, let alone equity. 🤷🏼
    Women's clothes never having sufficient pockets, for example, originally comes from a time when women were not allowed to even leave the house without being escorted by a man.... because she was considered his property. It was believed that if women's clothing had adequate pockets, the pockets would be used to enhance women's independence in ways that might tempt them to try leaving the house as anything but owned property.
    Looking at this without the context it's easy to look back on that time and think of those women as being "well protected", when it was never about her safety, it was about her disenfranchisement, limitation, disempowerment and humiliation for the benefit of her male owners. 🤔
    Now, does this mean every man who enjoys opening doors for women is some sort of cruel, misogynistic despot wishing for a bygone time when women weren't considered full humans? Of course not. 🤷🏼
    My point is simply that society changing is perfectly natural, and not necessarily a sign of the death of morality, manners or even romance, it's simply a change, that's all. ☺️

  • [Deleted User]WriterGF (deleted user)

    Since I haven't "courted" anyone in 20 years, I have to confess not something I worry about. If I'm going into a store, I hold the door for the person behind me, regardless of gender. If someone does it for me, I say thank you. But that's common courtesy, not courting behavior. I don't think I've ever opened the car door for someone unless he/she was elderly. The women I dated in the past were not going to sit in the car until I got around to the other side.

  • btc13btc13

    I always thought that the design of pockets or lack of pockets in women's clothes had to do with two things: it would have messed up the look they were aiming for, and most women carry a purse eliminating the need for much pocket space. I can't imagine that if someone starts designing women's clothing with large pockets to the scale that they are on men's clothing, there would be a huge surge in demand for them. Creating narratives where nearly anything and everything has been done to "treat women as property" or "keep women in their place" is not productive in my opinion as it produces antagonism in cases where it isn't merited. There is enough actual misogyny to be upset about without considering acts that are meant to be either kind (opening a door) or neutral (designing pockets in women's clothing) to be of the same caliber.

  • AdentoAdento

    I hold doors for people when it’s convenient. I have never had any complaints, at all. Most people say thanks. That said, I don’t expect thanks. It’s often not more than a second of my time.

    It’s the same amount of effort as moving to the side when walking in different directions. The appreciation is just sorta implied. The problem with using nice acts for courting is that it’s burdening someone with a layer of expectation that they entertain dating.

    The amount of people online who say that they were attacked for holding a door versus the amount of people who have attacked me (zero), makes it feel more like a bludgeon against social progress than anything.

    I like the idea of chivalry - that is, a code of ethics that the strong follow to protect the weak. It just never was adhered to. I don’t think anyone hates genuine compassion and courtesy. There are just a lot of talking head dudes on the internet that make up fake rules and trends for the express purpose of garnering resentment toward women lol.

  • dennis22554dennis22554
    edited August 2025

    @Runawaycuddles ...thank you for what I believe is perhaps the most thoughtful and well written post I have ever read! Way too often people look at a post and concentrate on a snippet, especially when looking to criticize..or attack. Your reply represents the cornerstone of decent communication..you have my sincerest gratitude! Opening doors for one another regardless of sex is a common courtesy everyone should practice. Opening a car door for a special friend represents a sign of respectf..a way of showing that person is b someone truly special. I also thak those that shared the history of door opening..fascinating. As you mentioned..people have different perspectives but when initiated with pure heart they should not be criticized! Thank you again. You obviously are a person i would love meeting one day.
    ..

  • mistic233mistic233
    edited August 2025

    I'm not against courtesy or holding doors open for people but I think going out of my way to open a car door for a woman is out of tune with a modern culture that's says men and women are supposed to be equal , the image of a servant or a butler comes to my mind lol

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