Female Enthusiasts' Support Group

KangarooInDCKangarooInDC
in General

Hello Female Enthusiasts! (Non-Pros)

I've mainly had respectful interactions with the men on this site, but a few have not been, including some with men who had many glowing reviews from female pros.

I wonder if some men have gotten so used to women on this site being service providers that they feel entitled to treat female enthusiasts the same way.

I'm curious about your experiences!

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Comments

  • cuddlefaerycuddlefaery

    I've been both a pro and an enthusiast here. Thankfully most of my in-person interactions have been positive - which I largely attribute to having strict boundaries in place and trusting my gut. The same can not be said for in the forums, messaging, and the rare text exchange just prior to scheduled meets.

    At least in my experience, there's less difference between how men treat pros vs enthusiasts than there are between men who treat all women respectfully with care, and those who do not. A man who believes women are here to serve their needs are going to treat all women that way. A man who truly sees women as their autonomous equals is going to treat all women that way. A person who feels entitled to other people's time and attention, without reciprocal respect given, is going to going to behave that way no matter with whom they are interacting.

    And this isn't just online. Being semi anonymous online may embolden people to say things they would normally filter, but that doesn't change the underlying beliefs. I've learned to trust my gut, that if a person behaves unethically, abusive, or disrespectfully online it's only a matter of time before they do so in person. Expecting someone to behave better in person than they do online is a recipe for having boundaries violated.

  • IronicMaidenIronicMaiden

    I don't think it's about them seeing us as only service providers. It's about them seeing us as objects.

    Look at all the ways they have of showing they didn't even glance at our profile. The basic "Hiiii". I tried responding back with "Hello" and got another "hi" so there was clearly no point in responding. "Hey sexy" really makes me wonder what kind of person gets turned on by picrews. "Are you available for a session tonight?"

    A recent winner actually used the passphrase in my profile, and sent a vaguely complimentary message (at least it was more than just "hi"). He had no pfp and a one word profile that only said "nice", and he was halfway across the country. Then he said he was going to be in a nearby city. Then he got angry I wasn't eager for him and his empty profile. And finally he blocked me.

    The strategy of "slowly let details out" and "get angry if they question anything" does not work for me. It feels manipulative and like a trap. And I think it's something people can only do if they don't view the other person as a person. I do like how angry the other person always gets that I don't meekly succumb. Shows who they really are.

  • CuddleDublinCuddleDublin

    Have always had the opinion that enthusiast cuddlers and professional cuddlers should not be on the same website... precisely because of the whole "cuddling as a paid service" mentality that it is a product to be bought and sold... and the purchaser being a consumer with certain expectations... this doesn't mix well when those "consumers" who are used to communicating and interacting in a certain way end up interacting with an "enthusiast" cuddler who may prefer taking things slowly and getting to know the person first... often the "consumer" does not have the patience especially if they're used to dealing with pros... so there really should be a completely different platform with different branding... this is increasingly important online these days as people go into "robot" mode and often do not think.

  • MTexMTex
    edited March 21

    There's definitely a learning curve on here. I learned some of the red flags the hard way. I've had both wonderful experiences & terrible ones on here. However, it has definitely been more good than bad.

    It's true karmas from some pros doesn't mean anything. I've had bad experiences with people who had many glowing karmas from pros only. And I've had great experiences with people who had no karmas.

    It's all about enforcing your personal boundaries, looking for red flags, & trusting your gut when talking or meeting with someone in person.

    Safe & trustworthy partners are the ones that are worth keeping for sure.

  • KangarooInDCKangarooInDC

    @cuddlefaery in general, I agree with what you wrote! I've been careful about vetting who I meet in person and have felt good about those experiences.

    I've just been surprised at the entitled behavior of some men I've messaged (only) with. Some of these had stellar reviews from pros, so I was taken by surprise.

    That's what had me wonder if they were just used to a dynamic that may work okay with a service provider, but not with an enthusiast... at least, not this enthusiast.

  • KangarooInDCKangarooInDC

    @IronLemon and @CuddleDublin I'm sorry you've also had these disrespectful experiences.

    AND it feels personally healing to have you put words to some of my experiences: objectification, entitlement, emotional manipulation, and anger are now all familiar to me... and I've only been on this site for 10 days.

    I'm at a high level and respected and sought after in my professional field, so it's a marked contrast to be treated as though others are entitled to me... and also unfortunately familiar given my current residence in a female body.

    And, again, most of my interactions have been positive. It's just that the negative ones have an outsized lingering effect -- that's just how the human nervous system is wired.

    That's why it's so helpful to feel less alone with your shares. Thank you!

  • KangarooInDCKangarooInDC

    @MTex this was so helpful to read!

    "I've had bad experiences with people who had many glowing karmas from pros only. And I've had great experiences with people who had no karmas."

    I now see I was assuming too much about a user based on their positive karma reviews. The reviews are probably still helpful, but (I've now learned) no guarantee.

    "It's all about enforcing your personal boundaries, looking for red flags, & trusting your gut when talking or meeting with someone in person."

    Trusting gut. Yes.
    Thanks again! :)

  • MTexMTex

    I hope you have safe & happy cuddles. If you can attend a cuddle group I highly recommend it. It really helped me with consent exercises & listening to my inner voice.

    I only put weight on karmas given by fellow enthusiasts now. I take karmas from pros with a grain of salt unless I know them personally.

    Your intuition is the best compass on choosing potential partners.

  • KangarooInDCKangarooInDC

    I only put weight on karmas given by fellow enthusiasts now. I take karmas from pros with a grain of salt unless I know them personally.

    @MTex how do you tell the difference between pros and enthusiasts in the karma reviews? Click on their profiles? Or is there a faster way?

    Good tip on getting training re: consent and listening to gut sense. I did one cuddle party with consent training many years ago. I'll be attending public events during this May's conference in DC.

  • MTexMTex

    @KangarooInDC Oh, nice I'm glad you are attending a conference.

    Unfortunately, you do need to click on the profiles to see if they are a pro or not. The "P" doesn't come up on the little avatar pic. However, after a couple of times you get to know the faces of the pros in your area. Another way would be to do a search in your area for female enthusiasts. I've made friends with a couple of them in my city.

  • KangarooInDCKangarooInDC

    Excellent tips 🙏

  • CozyCudyCozyCudy

    Hi friends 👋 fellow enthusiast here, not a female, so forgive me if jumping in on this thread is in poor taste. 🫣 Not my intention. 🤗

    I really respect and value this conversation. I have only cuddled with other enthusiasts and have heard some horror stories from them about the demeanor of some men out there. Which always makes me feel so upset and just awful. So from all the good guys out there- I’m so sorry. All my connections have been so relieved and appreciative that I’m a legit kind, intentional, and respectful gentleman 🤫🤭

    I know there are a lot of guys that are complete tools out there and it can be exhausting to sort out the good from the bad. As a male cuddler it feels like there is an invisible hurdle that I’m up against. There’s those guys that “ruin it for the whole class” and as a man in this community it can feel like I’m guilty by association until proven innocent. I completely understand people being cautious and vetting potential cuddle buddies, I do this as well. I’m not as instantly trusting after exiting a toxic marriage and being catfished on dating sites since.

    I actually tried starting here as a pro 😂 and I did have an uncomfortable request from another male cuddler on the site- they got banned shortly afterwards, so I’ve actually had a taste of this myself tbh… Some people are just trash and there’s no way around it. I guess it would be nice to know if there’s any way to put you ladies at ease when we’re the real deal and there’s no hidden agenda or anything sketchy. I guess that’s when the “gut” comes into play. You can really only trust your gut because there’s a lot of predators and wolves in sheep’s clothes out there. Men and women.

    Anyway, I’ve blabbered more than I had planned. 😅🤐Just processing out loud. I’m happy to share more if you’d like me to chime in on this discussion in the future. Always feel free to reach out. ☺️ and thank you all again for the honest and vulnerable shares. The insight, awareness, and shared experience is so valued. And hopefully can open some doors and help inform how to make this space the beautiful haven it should be.

  • KangarooInDCKangarooInDC
    edited March 22

    @CozyCudy I definitely found your comments supportive for me as a female enthusiast; glad you chimed in and I welcome more.

    it can be exhausting to sort out the good from the bad. As a male cuddler it feels like there is an invisible hurdle that I’m up against.

    Helpful to read that you can feel the greater hurdle to trust created by users who've been disrespectful. It expands my awareness of how the impacts ripple out to male enthusiasts, as well, and therefore expands my compassion, which is always nice.

    I'm sorry you were once on the receiving end.

    Each yucky experience -- like a loss -- takes time, skill, and intentionality to process. I've felt dismayed at the amount of mental and emotional energy I've spent on processing the yucky interactions here that took me by surprise (because I mistakenly thought that positive karma reviews were indicators of trustworthiness).

    it would be nice to know if there’s any way to put you ladies at ease when we’re the real deal and there’s no hidden agenda or anything sketchy

    Even though, as you also wrote, it comes down to gut sense, this inquiry got my attention. I was thinking about a way to help humanize each other, even in this disembodied digital form.

    Perhaps just imagining approaching anyone on here as though they're a stranger in front of us in a grocery store checkout line... and that person just happens to be wearing a hoodie with "Cuddle Enthusiast" printed on the back. Whoa!

    How might I approach such a stranger? Probably with tentative yet warm politeness and curiosity about maybe creating a connection.

  • Phoebe7Phoebe7

    This is why I hate being myself, I don't understand what fucking twisted part of myself wants to be a woman.

    I don't want to be looked at and told "Hey Sugartits!" So why the fuck do I want to be a woman?

  • MTexMTex

    @CozyCudy I appreciate your perspective & that you have also had those ick experiences. It's wonderful when you can experience a safe cuddle with a respectful partner. I wish you happy cuddles 🤗

    @Phoebe7 I'm so sorry you experienced such disrespectful behavior. I completely understand & can empathize with the disgust you are feeling. Please don't forget that your internal beauty, strength, & femininity are a positive in this world. 🫂

  • Phoebe7Phoebe7

    @MTex if you are telling me a joke, I'm not laughing.

  • TheMidnightOwlTheMidnightOwl

    Dude. I’ve got too many stories one usually only reads in police reports. And then I’ve had some really awesome meetups. It runs the gamut, truly.

    Our culture conditions men to be entitled, self-serving, boundary-pushing animals who throw angry tantrums when we don’t give them what they want when they want it, be it attention to sex and everything in between. So there’s truly no shock when I meet one that is exactly that, and thus I go into every conversation knowing the odds are this is the type of male I’m talking to until I’m shown evidence otherwise. And yes, we must tune into our gut instincts.

    As for karma, I basically disregard any given by pros because so many of them are here offering “extra services” despite that being not only illegal but ban-able, so karma is basically just a public receipt of services, nothing more. It’s an exchange of money for good reviews. I put more weight in enthusiast karma but not a whole lot because they’re not anonymous and women are conditioned to be kind, forgiving, positive, people-pleasing, etc. So for most there’s a hesitancy to be completely honest in such a way. The volume of positive karma by enthusiasts holds a bit more weight cause if the guy was acting badly somebody would have eventually reported him and he’d get banned long before he gets like 20 positive karmas. But again, nothing is foolproof besides our intuition.

  • CaramelNotesCaramelNotes

    I get tired of guys acting entitled to my time and conversation. Strangers will just inbox asking out of the blue - are you free? Interested in a cuddle? Can I book a session?

    Like - "Hello. How are you?" was right there. Today a pro inboxed asking if I wanted to cuddle. I didn't think they could do that.

    The guys I have actually cuddled with have been mostly good - I don't cuddle with anyone if it feels odd or off while messaging.

    Re: leaving karma - I wish we could leave karma anonymously. On 2 separate occasions, I cuddled with guys whose FEET smelled HORRENDOUS. I didn't feel comfortable leaving that in karma.

  • [Deleted User]Touchmate (deleted user)

    I'm just starting as a provider here. I've learned from the initial comments I've read, so thanks everybody for voicing your thoughts. I hope I can benefit you in a way that feels rewarding, worthwhile and--above all a kind and respectful interaction.

  • cuddlefaerycuddlefaery
    edited March 22

    @Touchmate if you haven't seen them already, there's some pinned threads in the pro forums specifically geared towards new and male pros. Definitely more valuable info there!

  • CuddlingforlifeCuddlingforlife
    edited March 22

    As an enthusiasts, I recently had one of my worst experiences in awhile. I recently found out that there is a channel on telagram (ran by men) where these men from CC and other members post about experience with both pros and enthusiets. It's a bashing channel of fat shaming and what I refer to as 'ick" channel. It's 10 x worse.

    If a cudller allowed anything slightly more then cuddling, for example a kiss. These woman were added to a list of " possible "willing to do more list" . It literally was the most ickist thing I've seen in years to know that men created a list of potential pros that might allow " SA" if a said cuddler talked them into via peer pressure. It was disgusting. I found out about it, because I was added to their list and multiple ppl notified me. I tell you this as a ⚠️ warning. Be safe out there. Definitely, trust your instinct. Vett , meet in public, have a safety call in place. Do everything you can instead of nothing.

  • TheFragmentedTheFragmented

    @Cuddlingforlife
    That is beyond sick and messed up.

  • KangarooInDCKangarooInDC

    @Cuddlingforlife Crimey. I'm so sorry. Thanks for the heads up and for the safety suggestions.

    That has me revisiting something I'd already been wondering about -- if I should diversify to cuddling with women.

    I've preferred conscious respectful masculine energy as a balance to my feminine, but maybe I could learn to also appreciate feminine energy to have more -- and maybe safer -- options.

    Today I actually did a massage exchange with a woman who was a peer in a short massage training I took. I felt a maternal sweetness toward her when it was my turn to massage, and receiving from her was lovely.

  • KangarooInDCKangarooInDC

    Just discovered and appreciated the two resource threads below.

    Tips for enthusiast women:
    https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/forum/discussion/14504/top-tips-for-new-enthusiast-women#top

    Clarity on boundaries:
    https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/forum/discussion/18389/understanding-boundaries-etiquette/p1

  • cuddlefaerycuddlefaery

    @KangarooInDC when I first started cuddling, I specifically only cuddled with women and nb folks - I have had a good amount of touch trauma throughout my life and I first got into cuddling as a means to work on that. But at first, men felt very, very unsafe. I even hired a couple pros early on, which eventually convinced me to try being a pro as well. Over time, with therapy and positive experiences I've been able to get completely comfortable cuddling with men outside of relationships, which is a small miracle in and of itself. Group events helped a ton as well as they offered structured, safe practice in setting and communicating boundaries. It's how I finally learned it really, truly ok to say no.

    When I was working as a pro, I specifically geared my services towards other women and queer folks, or anyone also with touch trauma. It's become a bit of a passion of mine, because it's been so life changing. Like, I used to jump every time someone reached towards me. Now, I still may feel awkward when hugging people I haven't gotten physically comfortable with yet, but it no longer sends my nervous system into a panic spiral. I know my partners have definitely noticed the improvement, as my tickle reflex gets triggered less easily now.

  • KangarooInDCKangarooInDC

    @cuddlefaery what a beautiful and inspiring story! Thanks for sharing. Congratulations on where you are now... and a bow to what it took to get there.

  • Minestrone101Minestrone101

    I totally support the idea. My suggestion would be to form a discord or other medium group where the women enthusiasts can support one another. I feel there's lots of outside noise and input on the forums - including this one. Have a good one.

    @Babichev and @Cuddle_RN and @SunsetSnuggles I have felt are really strong women enthusiasts in the group and I look up to them a lot. 😊

  • KangarooInDCKangarooInDC

    @Minestrone101 I really appreciate that, though I think/hope I'm personally in a decently-enough informed place to not need another support medium.

    Thanks for sharing the handles of women enthusiasts who you look up to and who could also maybe serve as models for me. Helpful.

  • Minestrone101Minestrone101

    That's great. Good luck women enthusiasts. Live long and prosper. 🕊️ 🕊️ 🕊️

  • consciousseekerconsciousseeker
    edited March 23

    @KangarooInDC
    Reviews/Karma may not tell the whole story. They can be part of an exchange too.. I mean 'I will leave a good Karma, I hope you will too' kinda exchange. Not all cases but if we are not being completely honest when leaving a Karma, that is a subtle manipulation.

    I think it will always come down to what that person truly is at the core.
    Vetting is crucial. How they react to simple, slight disagreements, how they opiniate (borderline judgement), constant push to meet up..all those can tell a lot I believe.

    We are all humans, equals, should compliment each other and live in harmony. But historically & unfortunately, so many societies/countries/cultures are men dominant, privileged and see women as objects.

    We men must & should learn to rewire, undo the conditioning and be protective of women around us.

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