I do not trust the vaccine
There is the possibility that with the first group vaccinated(first responders health care workers etc.) and then those at highest risk on a month by month basis until April or May that the number of potential infections would be dramatically reduced.The vaccinations combined with those who already have immunity having a devastating impact on the virus itself.
@Alan2018 yes indeed there is a very small possibility that vaccination of the general population will become moot.
@pandasnuggles actually there is no 'the' vaccine: there are at least seven different ones under development. When it comes to your turn, you may have a choice. And I'm curious... What is it specifically that you do not trust?
@FunCartel, we have opposing positions and that's ok. Mental health, personal relationships, jobs, and the economy are real concerns that I empathize with, but I don't quite agree with your stance when it comes to the severity of "pestilence, poverty, and megalomania rule."
My concern is more about millions of people taking a rushed vaccine that hasn't been through the proper protocols. And big Pharma rushing it through to cash in on the hysteria Covid has created here in the US. Many countries e.g., Taiwan, Australia, South Korea, etc. have managed Corona much better than the United States by practicing commonsense and nationwide approaches like wide-spread testing, wearing masks, contract tracing etc. etc.
Recognizing these countries have much smaller populations and land-mass than the US, what they also seem to have is responsible leadership that applied nationwide protocols and practices. I don't want to get political, but our leadership has failed us profoundly in this regard.
I was just reading yesterday that Pfizer's vaccine is being shipped from one of their facilities in Europe to one in Wisconsin and they are facing "challenges" in so far as their vaccine must be stored at minus 94 degrees Fahrenheit or colder with dry ice and there are issues with air travel due to the instability of dry-ice at high altitudes effecting oxygen flow in tight spaces like aircraft.
The fact that the vaccine has to be stored at such a temperature gives me even further pause than I had.
I wish you, and everyone the best in these trying times. As a person with an underlying condition and follows safety protocols, I've most likely been more isolated than most these past 6 or 7 months. Moreover, I have to choose wisely in my medical treatments as I literally can't afford to choose wrong. Therefore, I'm choosing what I see as common sense over the hysteria induced by poor leadership in the US regarding Covid.
Either choice is difficult and potentially problematic from my perspective. Be well.
I have very little hope for a working vaccine. All those people around the world in their fancy science coats, doing things and stuff. They're ultimately just trying to turn a profit.
Me? I'll keep faith in my local bog witch. She's been around for ages, brewing up solutions to all of my ailments. Been urinating blood for a week? Wart of toad and eye of goat. Problem solved. Have a stiff neck? Nothing that a few crystals won't fix, when they're vigorously rubbed against the spot while she mutters an incantation. She'll even scare the malevolent spirits away from my crops if they're not up to snuff—bam, the best tomatoes ever.
@UltimateChungus 😂🤣😂😂🤣
@herby357 you have my sympathies. Here in the UK we call it 'shielding'. I know somebody with a serious condition and it has been very, very hard for her. I bet it has been very, very hard for you too.
The Pfizer vaccine seems unlikely to be the lead one in the end, just because of that storage problem. Some of the others do not have such demanding protocols.
@UltimateChungus 🤣🤣🤣
@CuddleDuncan I really appreciate your posts fighting the fear. I've hit a point in my life where I'm tired of always being skeptic and fearful. It's important to look at the facts and decide for ourselves, but I really admire your stance on things.
Congratulations to everyone who can "work remotely for the foreseeable future" and conform with universal mask use, but for me, this is not normal, period.
Curious to know if anyone has heard if china has started recovering and if they are using a vaccine.
@wrench I've heard China has actually handled covid well.
Don’t trust the vaccine. Should not be forced on people. It should be a choice.
@CoolActionGuy there is no 'the' vaccine, there are at least seven different vaccines under development. And I'm curious, what about it don't you trust?
I'm not aware of any democratic country that is planning to force the vaccine on anybody. Even the WHO thinks that's a bad idea.
@2kCarlos thank you. I think it's ok to be fearful. Fear is a warning mechanism, forcing you to ask yourself, 'is this really a good idea?' But once the fear has done its job, let it go. Fear is never a reason for not doing a thing: it's merely a mechanism for making sure you have thought about it properly. That is why you should 'never take counsel of your fears'.
@CuddleDuncan
Haven't you heard? The government is going to force the vaccine on everybody.
You'll be at home, eating cheeseburgers with your family, reciting the Lord's prayer while listening to the national anthem, and then all of a sudden government agents will break in. They'll hold you and each of your family members down, force hoses down your throat, and make you chug the vaccine.
Then, for good measure, they'll make your children into gay liberal atheists before heading to the graveyard to dig up your parents, piss on their corpses, and rebury them facing down. And then they'll burn a flag while throwing rocks through the windows of the church you attend.
It's real basic stuff, man.
(Addendum: You live in the UK, so your experience may vary.)
@UltimateChungus well yes, but wouldn't it be cheaper just to change the chem in the chemtrails? 🙄
Certainly investors are hoping to make a buck on vaccines, but it's likely that with a bunch of contenders entering the winner's circle together, the profits will be less than ideal. If anybody recalls how the Hep C drugs worked out, even with huge prices and millions of anxious customers they fell short of expectations. BTW the investors include anybody doing day trading too. When a company releases their Covid-19 vaccine product, profit isn't the first thing they are looking for. They want to be the known for a solid product because chances are they might actually get stuck for hundreds of millions $.
News just in: the UK has approved the Pfizer vaccine (the one that needs cold). Vaccinations are expected to start as soon as next week. The first doses will go to residents and staff at care homes for the elderly, which has been a significant covid hotspot here.
Gathering bits and pieces from various stories suggests that, using several vaccines, the UK expects to vaccinate all vulnerable people, health workers and everybody over 50 within a year. This will leave a pool of infection in the younger adults, which will mean that some restrictions are likely to continue for some time yet. However, vaccinating the remaining population won't take long, so we should be back to complete normal in 18 months. If things go well that target could be exceeded by a significant amount. Note that this is just the UK: other European countries are likely to be similar.
If there turns out to be a serious problem with this vaccine (which is unlikely) we will know about it in a matter of weeks.
@CuddleDuncan Qantas Airlines of Australia and possibly others plan on requiring Covid Vaccine Passports. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnn.com/travel/amp/qantas-coronavirus-vaccination-intl-hnk-scli/index.html
@CuddleDuncan There is very little difference between government enforced vaccinations and every business saying that unless you show your vaccination papers (Papers please), you can't do business there.
@CuddleDuncan I hope that the WHO prevents them. I wouldn’t mind the vaccine if it was tested and trustworthy but this Covid one is being rushed.
@CoolActionGuy you haven't answered my previous question.
BNT162b2 (the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine) requires two doses 28 days apart. The median time between covid infection and first appearance of symptoms is about 5 days. In other words, you don't need that much time to conduct a study, if you can do it on a large enough scale. (This is not a long term drug for a long term illness.)
There is obviously no data on the long-term efficacy of the vaccine but it clearly works in the short term. Of the 43,661 people enrolled in Phase III testing (which started on 27 July and is continuing) at 150 testing centres around the world, 170 developed covid: 162 from the placebo group and 8 from the vaccine group. (That infection rate seems low by current standards, but back in August and September when much of this testing was done infection rates were much lower than they are now, now that we are in the second wave.)
No Grade 4 or 5 adverse events were attributable to the vaccine: the only Grade 3 events at a frequency of 2% or greater were fatigue and headache and most cases resolved quickly.
@CoolActionGuy in what sense is this vaccine 'untested', as you put it?
@BrianL on the contrary, there is a profound difference. In the one case, the authorities use the threat of violence, and in the last resort actual violence, to impose vaccination.
In the other case, there is no threat of violence and no actual violence. That's a pretty big difference.
If companies choose to do business only with people who have been vaccinated, then you have a choice to make. That choice has consequences, which which you have to live. This is a situation familiar to us all - it's called 'being an adult'.
@UltimateChungus it seems like you are projecting the attitudes in North Dakota onto the discussion. I had to travel into ND in October and I can understand why you feel that way. I was pulling into gas stations where I was the only person wearing a mask and being stared at like I was from outer space. It didn’t help that my face mask says FRANCE with the French flag on it even though it is just because my family is from France and has nothing to do with allegiances.
@CuddleDuncan I do not necessarily think a government imposed vaccine requirement would be violent. This is a capitalist country through and through. I think it would come in the form of a steep vaccine tax to offset the medical expenses for caring for someone that gets Covid. They did that with the Affordable Care Act. If you did not have health insurance and you opted out of the ACA marketplace choices for coverage you paid a “fee” that would increase from year to year.
@CuddleDuncan Perhaps for the people that live in like China that would be true, but it's less true in America.
I do take your point, gentlemen, than de facto imposition does not necessarily mean a taser - handcuff - injection combo. I was forgetting about some of the differences between my pondside and yours.
Government imposition of any kind does seem unlikely, and would not occur for another year in any event. On the other hand, business-led restriction of choice seems certain and may be quite severe. However, it also won't bite hard for another year, by which time we will be very clear about vaccine safety.
I know 35 people who have had Covid. Eleven have died. A wide variety of ages and degrees of healthiness. My wife and I don't go out unless it's the grocery store or pharmacy. She's been working from home since March. I get tested every other month when I have other bloodwork done and I've always tested negative. I see a couple of cuddle buddies, occasionally, that I know are also following protocols to stay safe.
I'm a historian and one of my areas of study is 18th and 19th century epidemics in the US. For what it's worth, I saw all this coming back in December.
Y'all stay safe out there.
I'm 75% sure I'm not getting the vaccine. On the other hand, I isolate like crazy, smear hand sanitizer in a huge swath across the landscape in my wake, and would cancel or delay ANY cuddle session if I had a single doubt about my status. One symptom, and I'm playing it safe.
@CuddleDuncan I don’t trust a rushed vaccine. That’s why I don’t trust it. It’s too rushed and I have a good immune system anyways. Not injecting that into my body. My choice, my body. Or does that not apply here?
@CoolActionGuy I'm just curious. I get that you don't want to be vaccinated, but I don't understand why. What do you mean by 'rushed', specifically? I mean I know it's been done quickly, but that's not the same thing.
The success of the Pfizer vaccine was announced on 18 November and the UK announced its acceptance today, 14 days later. This is months faster than usual. However, for most of those months nothing actually happens. Administration wends its slow, steady way. All of that slowness has been abolished - instead of some official taking three weeks to get round to reading a report and signing off on it, it's done the same day.
I'll tell you a little story. Once upon a time I went into the Amtrac office in Washington DC. I sat down with one of the clerks, who could not have been more helpful, and bought my ticket. (Cardinal then Empire Builder, I think. Anyway, DC to Seattle via Chicago.)
'When do you want to go?' she asked. 'Well, there is a train on Thursdays, and tomorrow is Thursday, so tomorrow' says I. 'But that's impossible!' she remonstrated. 'It takes at least a week to process the ticket! First I have to do this, then the next day it goes to Thelma-Jean and she does that, then the day after ... and finally Betty, who posts it out.'
I looked across the office at the row of women. There were seven of them - seven days, one week - sitting in a row. My clerk looked with me. Presumably she thought of my cute British accent and charming manner. I smiled at her encouragingly.
'Tell you what,' she said confidentially. 'It's nearly lunchtime, and we close. Come back in a couple of hours and I'll see what I can do'.
Well, would you believe it, dear readers, my ticket was ready. And I had a brilliant trip.
It takes a week ... of which 167 hours is sitting in in-trays.
@seabrooker you say you're 75% sure you won't get 'the' vaccine. (There may be as many as seven to choose from, all created by different companies in various countries.)
But the rest of your post is basically a list of reasons why being vaccinated would radically improve your life
@stlreb that's really hard. I struggle even to imagine what that must be like. Particularly difficult since you are so well aware that it was all largely avoidable. There's only a certain amount of pain you can feel for a stranger on the internet but man ... I'm feeling it.