Lack of responses is the only problem I have seen with this site. You can send well thought out messages while being polite as possible and not even get a no thank you. If you send out a dozen messages and get zero replies it just makes you not want to send anymore messages. And when you lose the want to send messages then even being on this site looses it's appeal. I honestly do not know why so many people don't answer messages. Even pros who would be paid don't answer messages. Not even sure why I'm posting this to be honest.
@Duryea because you have opinions that deserve to be said ☺️
@Duryea: It might also be the pleasure of speaking. As a serial soliloquizer, I often lecture just because I like to. There's something satisfying (I find) about putting your thoughts in order, translating them into words, and sending them out into the world, even if no one responds.
It's always entertaining, and sometimes cathartic. And if someone does hear, and your words affect their behavior—well, isn't that neat?
...This is probably why I can send a dozen well-thought-out messages to a dozen potential buddies, get zero replies, and not lose the desire to send messages; I just like writing too much. Can't discourage me.
Sometimes even I don't respond to messages, though. Why? [shrug]
Sometimes I'm just not in the mood. It's rare, but it does happen. Maybe it happens more often to some people, and that (combined with the exhaustion of picking through dumpster fires) is why they so often don't respond. We could maybe fix the dumpster fires by requiring messages to be longer, or to reference something in the recipient's profile, but I don't know how we could ever fix "just not in the mood to write."
And some people simply don't like writing at all. Not their style: they communicate best in other ways. Difficult to get around that on sites like this one, where pretty much all talking is done through text.
That problem probably can't be prevented.
I am biromantic and was messaging with a woman for a while, she seemed VERY interested and allowed herself to be vulnerable in some things she said, so I felt comfortable reciprocating. The last thing she texted me was "Oh wow! That's the nicest thing anyone said to me all day... thank you." The next day she ghosted me, lol. Absolutely zero contact since that text. Women can really be confusing and brutal, not in words, but by simple absence. I definitely agree with your reminding us that the grass is always greener on the other side. I don't think either situation is one to be envied at all. Both situations suck
I am biromantic as well, and have experienced the exact same scenario with women on many occasions. Dating men versus dating women is equally difficult, but often in quite different ways. With men it seems to be more of a case of "sins of commission" (i.e. being pushy, overly sexual, impersonal, etc) whereas with women it's more about the "sins of omission" (i.e. ignoring people, lack of responsiveness, dismissiveness, etc).
(I should clarify when I use the word "sin" I don't mean it very literally here - I'm talking not so much about "right and wrong" but more about behaviours that are annoying, hurtful, stressful or difficult to deal with. And with men it can often be quite scary and threatening, too.)
It seems that what applies to dating, in terms of typical gendered behaviour, is much the same in the platonic cuddling enthusiast world.
@TouchSanctuary well worded and pretty darn accurate, ha. Gender differences can be pretty fascinating... And frustrating. ;-) LOL.
When I write an opening message on this site I assume I will not get a reply. Enthusiast or pro. I write for other reasons, usually making an attempt to make sure that the recipient's inbox has at least one nice message in it. I think of it as an exercise in making a fellow-cuddler's day better. I then forget about it.
Whenever I do get a reply, I am genuinely surprised. It's a bonus.
I have now been here long enough to explain one reason for pros not replying. Sometimes, when somebody logs in, it is their last login for a while. They may or may not know that at the time, but obviously the sender doesn't. My initial reply rate from pros was about 50%, but some of the non-repliers have now - weeks later - sent nice messages. One or two others have logged in once: they are essentially inactive but just popping in for some reason. They haven't replied, but then why would they.
Problem: pros not replying
Solution: pro profiles have a binary flag which either means
I'm leaving my profile up but I'm not seeking new clients right now, so if you message me I won't reply
Or
I'm open to new enquires, please message me and I will reply
Comments please.
@CuddleDuncan's suggestion sounds like a good one. I'm not even a pro and I could use a flag like that. "Still here, but only foruming / carrying on currently active conversations." That sort of thing.
I like it.
Holy fragging hell that was quite a ride to read through! I have to say I am flat out impressed by how mature, (for the most part) well thought out and explained this convo has been.
On the subject of @Blue54 s profile just WOW now that's how you do it! (And here I was worried I was writing too much of a book lol)
I'm (obviously) not a woman, but I can at least emphasize on some of the problems with inappropriate contacts. Once upon a time a much younger fitter me had similar issues for less sfw reasons. (Well technically it would be perfectly safe for where I worked lmao). It sucks when you can't walk down the street/into a bar or hell sometimes a restaurant without being propositioned or worse. Fun fact just cuz we're guys doesn't mean we like being randomly felt up in public (not aimed at any one here just a ventish moment I guess) So I kind of get it (I'm not dumb enough to think I fully understand A. not a woman B. you gals are offering a far more intimate service than I was) so I can only imagine it's worse/harder since you most likely have a better rapport/stronger connection with your clients when they break the trust. I'm truly sorry y'all go through that, there ain't nothing I can do about that, but know I respect you and admire the strength you show in putting yourselves in the line of fire (emotionally and otherwise) for us cuddle starved hug junkies.
On the subject of male on male cuddles... look I get it it's a touchy subject for most. Hell I'm not even opposed to cuddling with guys and I still rarely do so. That connection is just harder for most men to make with eachother (myself included) and that's the issue. It's not the touch that REALLY matters (don't get me wrong its GREAT) it's the connection, the feeling of being safe enough to let the walls down and just be open and vulnerable, and that's damned hard to do with most guys. We of all people know the lengths guys are willing to go to, the lies we're willing to tell in the pursuit of mating, so trusting eachother to actually MEAN it when we say we just want platonic cuddles? It's a real tough sell, just letting your guard down enough to try and get comfortable DISCUSSING cuddling eachother can seem like a monumental, mentally draining task that most of the time just doesn't feel worth the effort. I don't really have any fixes for that one either sorry mates just wanted ya to know I understood y'all too.
Now this has become a long rambling mess so Ima shut up lol. May you all be safe, happy, and fulfilled
@CuddleDuncan I just have response expectations detailed in my profile, ha. But most people don't do that... I worry the labels wouldn't be chosen correctly by people (or at all, if the option exists). On facebook business pages, it automatically shows the average response time. That would be more valuable, and would encourage people to actually respond, and sooner (if they care). 😊👍 Admittedly, I rush to answer messages on facebook ASAP to try keeping that number down... Lol. 🤷♀️
On facebook business pages, it automatically shows the average response time.
Now that sounds like a good idea! I was not thrilled about the idea of the "Open to new clients" flag, because I think pros who don't respond will just keep it on. I suspect their mentality is "Sure I'm open to new clients if I happen to feel like it right at the moment; and I'll just ignore every message I get until that moment comes."
@NightShift39
the feeling of being safe enough to let the walls down and just be open and vulnerable, and that's damned hard to do with most guys. We of all people know the lengths guys are willing to go to, the lies we're willing to tell in the pursuit of mating, so trusting eachother to actually MEAN it when we say we just want platonic cuddles? It's a real tough sell, just letting your guard down enough to try and get comfortable DISCUSSING cuddling eachother can seem like a monumental, mentally draining task that most of the time just doesn't feel worth the effort.
Yes. It really is. I hear you. Psst... I'm pretty sure a lot of women feel this way about cuddling with men too! And yet I am still hopeful about trying to achieve that, because when I do have a truly platonic cuddle with a guy, it is [edit: it can be] powerfully healing and nourishing. It feeds the soul in the present, while healing old wounds of betrayal, hidden agendas and non-consensual experiences of the past.
@xelda ... "when I do have a truly platonic cuddle with a guy, it is powerfully healing and nourishing. It feeds the soul in the present, while healing old wounds of betrayal, hidden agendas and non-consensual experiences of the past."
The use of "truly platonic" prompted me to casually look up the definition of "platonic" to ensure I had the correct definition ~ Which I did. However, it brought up a few points of clarification I'd like some CC community help with.
Understanding the definitions will be personal and may vary greatly from one to the next ~ I hope at least some of you will be willing to share your thoughts on the following:
Platonic - pla·ton·ic - /pləˈtänik/ adjective (of love or friendship) intimate and affectionate but not sexual. "their relationship is purely platonic"
Similar: chaste friendly nonsexual nonphysical
How does one go about having a "nonphysical" cuddle?
Opposite: sexual physical
What all might qualify as "physical" in this context that isn't "sexual"?
And where does, "sensual" land?
@quixotic_life: When "platonic" is used in the "platonic ideal" sense, that's when it also means "non-physical."
"Sensual" literally only has to do with the gratification of the senses, but in actual use it typically implies sexual gratification specifically. As words to describe a cuddle go, I'd probably avoid that one just to be safe.
@quixotic_life I think "physical" in those definitions may be referring to sexual activity. Naturally, cuddling involves physical touch but not sexual.
As far as sensual, I usually think of things like massage & similar touch that feels good but isn't necessarily sexual.
My thoughts are to normalize Cuddling and treat it like other types of bodywork industries like energy healing and massage therapy. I think the fact that we still somewhat exist in the shadows and haven’t reached main stream awareness and acceptance is what allows creepy and criminal people in. I think we need more brick and mortar cudddle locations and more legal regulations. I think there should be a license to be, professional cuddler. We could also normalize same sex Cuddling which would probably increase the number of female enthusiast.
@xandriarain I think that's a good point. And because platonic cuddling & professional cuddling aren't quite mainstream, perhaps not all people understand it.
First of all, the majority of us cuddlers are lonely. This is the biggest problem. As a man, my gender tends to be overly sexual. For most men, it's on the brain most of the time. It's built in and it won't change. However, if I may suggest...ahem...something that might help for the men that will cuddle either sex is to....well...um...get rid of the "pressure" before she/he shows up. That way, thinking is more clear and sober. When that amount of pressure builds up inside of man, he can't think straight. This post will probably be deleted, but it's the only sensible approach to a problematic situation for women.
@xelda First, WOW I never expected any of my rambling mess to be quoted lol
Second, yes I am in fact certain a lot of women feel that way as well, I've been told as much by women (repeatedly over the years). But that's WHY I addressed that part to the guys, women for the most part already KNOW the issues and have the words/language to express them.
Fewer men do, a lot of us dont even consider cuddling another guy an option so putting any thought into the whys and reasons behind it isn't a priority. In a perfect world it may open a few eyes or at least get some people thinking about it, sadly this isn't such a world but sitting silent when I think something NEEDS to be said just isn't my way.
Lastly, By the All Shadow, YES! A truly great cuddle can wash away an amazing amount of stress and pain, and over time they do wonders to heal the damage past toxic relationships/encounters have dealt.
@DarrenWalker
I haven't contradicted myself. B requires A does not imply A requires B. That you can have just cuddling is in fact the premise of this site. My disagreement is your idea that A and B are unrelated. The link is as strong as grape juice and wine. If you don't want wine, you either need to be proactive in stopping it or be in an environment naturally hostile to it.
To everyone else:
1 Any verification should be optional; only some people will want to check it. 2 Just because you feel like your approach is correct doesn't mean others are invalid. Namely, if you want cuddles and only cuddles, you should be allowed to seek. Just as many on this site seek connection (talking more accurately) and only connection. It is easy to be frustrated with those who don't lie on the side of the spectrum you do. Remember to respect that everyone has different needs. 3 I wish everyone luck
@lonelybutmaybe
My argument, if you'll recall, was that sex and cuddling aren't inextricably linked. You can extricate one from the other—you can, for instance, pull sex away from cuddling (the entire premise of this site).
On a slightly tangential note, you seem to have the idea that wine just happens if grape juice is left alone. That's an... interesting idea.
I agree that if the site wants lots of users, verification of legal identity should be an option rather than a requirement.
During a pandemic, it makes sense for people to be more interested in remote connection than in-person, potentially infectious contact. But even when there's not a plague on, it's true that some folks prefer intellectual and/or emotional intimacy to physical intimacy. Best to figure out who you're talking to before you start expecting things that won't be forthcoming!
As far as the idea that men are "overly sexual" goes... well, I think all humans are overly sexual, frankly. But men are definitely socialized to be more open about it.
In any case. I'd say that if you're a human creature who gets a bit carried away in the presence of someone you're attracted to that way, definitely take @Snuggletooth's advice and get it out of your system beforehand, if you can.
@DarrenWalker ~ You know... After thinking on this a little more I'd concluded, "Yeah... Probably shouldn't have used that word with someone, even though they're from this community." I really was going with the sensory/tactile/physical parts of the definition, and thought that would be understood given the context, but I'm not so sure. I'm gonna have to try clearing that up... There's just a bit too much "grey" I think. Thank you for confirming!!
@FlyingToaster ~ I appreciate this bit... "As far as sensual, I usually think of things like massage & similar touch that feels good but isn't necessarily sexual." ... but because I would be freaked out if offered a "sensual massage" at the studio, I'm going to take that reaction as further evidence that I shouldn't use the word... Also, if to calm me down I was told it's okay because it, "isn't necessarily sexual", I'd be internally flipping out and would never go back. ~ lol
@quixotic_life I see what you mean. And when I commented earlier, I hadn't thought about specifically a "sensual massage", and now that you mention tbat, I understand what you're saying.
I tend to think of platonic cuddling as a sensual experience in many respects, but I would probably be cautious about using that word in a professional setting as many people see it as a euphemism for erotic or sexual touch. I think that sex negativity actually is a hindance to the platonic cuddling community, as it means people are less open, honest and direct about wanting sex or sexual topics, thus it can lead to more confusion and miscommunication.
the feeling of being safe enough to let the walls down and just be open and vulnerable, and that's damned hard to do with most guys. We of all people know the lengths guys are willing to go to, the lies we're willing to tell in the pursuit of mating, so trusting each other to actually MEAN it when we say we just want platonic cuddles? It's a real tough sell, just letting your guard down enough to try and get comfortable DISCUSSING cuddling each other can seem like a monumental, mentally draining task that most of the time just doesn't feel worth the effort.
I've seen some straight men get more comfortable cuddling other men at cuddle parties in my area (pre COVID) as there were so few women in attendance. Most parties just had the female facilitator and every attendee was male, so I guess there weren't a lot of other options. The facilitator's male partner often just lies in the middle and cuddles up to the men, even though he is straight - but he's pretty comfortable in his gender and masculinity, so it doesn't threaten him.
@TouchSanctuary That is great to hear, and yeah in that environment with a nice built in safety net? Oh yeah I'd cuddle shamelessly lol
This is fabulous, people, thank you. This is the thread that just keeps on giving.
Interesting thread. So far I've met up with one pro and it was a good experience. I understand why non pros don't respond. One who did reply and was upfront about being deluged with hundreds of messages. But I don't understand pros not responding. One pro had an initial response but when I messaged back and asked her some questions about her expectations, likes and dislikes, and asked her to fill our her basic profile, she never responded. Why would anymore hire a pro with no profile, no karma, or other feedback?
would it be helpful to carry a dictaphone (or use your phone as one)? Perhaps when at any moment during or before a cuddle you feel the cuddle partner may cross any boundaries you request them that you have decided to switch on and record audio of the rest of the cuddle session and they have a choice to stop if they wish...
My thought is that either we can have individuals self-correct (not going to happen) ... well then, one thing learnt from human behavior is that they tend to behave better when they know they are being observed...
I understand from reading this thread that many users, especially enthusiast women, get inappropriate messages, and this leads to them getting discouraged and leaving the site.
@Mark Can a “report this message” button be added to the message section? That way it will be easier to flag people who violate the rules of this website to be banned from it.
I've considered that for a while but have held back thus far. I believe it's likely to lead to a big increase in emotional reporting at the expense of moderator resources.
What we did do fairly recently was add the Report function into the message area. So it's definitely easy to report but I think the existing process offers more opportunity to reflect on your reasoning.
For example, in the heat of the moment someone might want to report 'harassment' due to a particularly insulting message. However, with pause for thought they might realise it's just an organic escalation from a private squabble. That warrants a block, not a moderator. We recently added this guidance into the end-user report flow.