@DaringSprinter
Again, I'm just offering a small portion of perspective why I think all human beings have value because for me, sharing between humans adds value to my life and I hope my hsaring adds to their life. And honestly, I stopped taking you serious when I read this:
"Human life in general has no value to me personally. My life has value to me. @HogboblinZwei's life has value to me. Because of this, I value the lives of those humans whose work is necessary to support the infrastructure he and I depend onāsort of. I don't value them as individuals, just as working units.
I do not value the human species. I don't intend to keep it going. I'm not about to contribute any of my personal genetic information to the next generation."
I tend to care a lot farther than that. I like to think of humanity as a community even though it's not (clearly by your comment for example). I like to treat everyone I interact as my best friend or a family memeber even if they are a stanger. I'm just that optomistic person (that's stoned) that believes we have a stream of consciosness not jaded by personal disconnects that we will eventually understand.
You can reference me smoking a bowl all you want (it was delicious), or judge me how I see the world and how I like to interact with people and judge me for disagreeing with a lot of what you say, I'm cool with that. I'm self aware enough to accept who I am and I'm going to sleep great tonight. I hope you do as well.
@Saysoh: No condemnation was intended. I impair my own brain function on the regular (by staying up even after the sun's risen and I ought to be in bed). I know the feeling of looking back on an interaction and going "oh, I've made a fool of myself."
The human brain is a sack of faintly electrified wet meat. Obviously it's not going to work perfectly all the timeāand especially not when its functioning has been altered.
So you don't really understand what the thread's about right now. That's fine. You can come back later and tell us all whether or not you think all humans are valuable (and to whom).
I think that the universe itself is in fact sentient and capable of valuing human life, as we ourselves are part of the universe and therefore our thoughts collectively could be considered the thoughts of the universe. And by that reasoning, if any human places value on other humans, that would mean that the universe itself values us. Even if all other conscious thought in the universe did not consider humans valuable, so long as there is one that does then humans are objectively valuable. And is it not perhaps the design of the universe that beings such as we should come into existence so that the universe might contemplate itself? Whoās to say that all reality is not merely the idle pondering of some unknowable entity residing in a higher plane of existence than our own? To us, such a being may as well not exist for we could never hope to perceive beyond our limited dimensions. These have been the pondering of my insomnia-addled mind, thanks for coming to my tedtalk.
I can't possibly be understanding your line of reasoning correctly, @Travismo. What I'm hearing are things like
"Because a tiny fraction of the universe is sentient, the entire universe is sentient."
"Whenever a teeny tiny part of the universe decides something is valuable to it, that means the thing is objectively valuable to the whole universe (but no assignment of negative value ever counts)."
"The universe had no sentience (and thus no capacity for intent) before we came into existence, but before we came into existence it somehow managed to intend that we should come into existence anyhow, despite this being impossible."
"There's no proof that the universe isn't the idle daydream of some higher being, and in fact this suggestion is untestable, so there's really no point in my suggesting it except to encourage belief in unprovable things."
"I am very tired."
... Actually, maybe that last one explains it all. I'm probably one of the few folks on here for whom it's currently Awake Time.
Oh my goodness. There is so much information here. I want to respond thoughtfully and look at some things more closely.... I have so many thoughts dancing around in my head!
Thank you all for your additions to the thread!!
@Teamrocket Welcome to the site!! What an interesting profession you have... and also a tid bit of darkness.... Hmmmm I hope that creates a balance of work/life for you.
After touring through some odd foreign country I forget the name of, I woke up in a bathtub filled with ice, sutures in my side, and one less kidney weighing me down.
Organs for sale on the black market huh?? Wow!!! Who knew that was a real thing!! No clowning around for awhile I suppose!!
Have a good night everyone!!
Fun day at work. I put in eleven hours, but that's a short day. Cooked a solid steak, rice seasoned with butter and garlic and two glasses of Buffalo Trace. I'm tired, buzzed, stimulated, so lets talk value here, because there wasn't any context in the original post.
So, based on your cooments, you hold little, if zero regard to humanity outside your circle, correct? I've read your comments in previous threads and it seems, or at least how I'm going to approach you from this point, you often feel like you're the smartest person in the room. Got it.
You're coming at me aggressively about context, yea? Even to the point you felt like you had to define it to me. Fair. Sometimes people are married to their ideas, but I;m not married to anything. Well, maybe my headphones, but they're fire and bring me joy when I need it so, I love my headphones.
Now, value. Since you admitted you hold little value to any person that isn't a support beam for you, and since you feel like you had to define context (just so I have a better grasp on your perspective), what exactly is your context for the thread and what dou you think the OP's context is? Also, with such lack in value outside of your framework, what value are you actually talking about? I pretty much made it clear to you how I try to be part of humanity by sharing experiences and being vulnerable which often let's others put down their guard and they become vulnerable and share. IT's basic communication really, so I'm wondering why you are trying to define context and value to me when you've admitted to shutting the rest of the world off?
All human beings have value but only to other humans. I don't think a human has any value to an ant or a fly. And we probably wouldn't have any value to a much more advanced alien species.
@Saysoh
Fun day at work. I put in eleven hours, but that's a short day. Cooked a solid steak, rice seasoned with butter and garlic and two glasses of Buffalo Trace. I'm tired, buzzed, stimulated, so lets [sic] talk value here, because there wasn't any context in the original post.
I've just woken up, stretched a bitāin a minute I'll have a mug of tea to wake my stomach up for breakfast. Let's do this!
I admit I'm not encouraged by the immediately apparent fact that you can't recognize grammatical context (in the sentence "do you believe all human beings have value," the word 'value' is singular and refers to the subject 'all human beings'), but let's give it a try.
So, based on your cooments, [sic] you hold little, if zero regard to [sic] humanity outside your circle, correct?
I'm a simple individual. If a person or thing isn't providing me with something beneficial or enjoyable, I don't value them (or it). At this stage in my recovery from decades of abuse, I don't have the ability to really care about anyone but myself and my partner.
I admit that may changeāI used to be unable to care about anyone but myself, and when I was being actively abused as a child, I had trouble doing even that.
However, at this point in my life, yes: I assign very little value to anyone who isn't either me or @HogboblinZwei... which is to say they have very little value to me. Remember, value is a subjective thing. Just because you aren't worth anything to me doesn't mean you're worth nothing to anyone. That is not how value works.
...Hmm. Why do I feel as though Saysoh's remark here was an attempt at poisoning the well?
Since you admitted you hold little value to any person that isn't a support beam for you [poor grammar in original]
Oh, that's why.
and since you feel like you had to define context (just so I have a better grasp on your perspective), what exactly is your context for the thread and what dou [sic] you think the OP's context is?
I felt I had to point out the grammatical context of this thread's title because it was apparent that you'd missed it. For the subject of this thread to have been what you thought it was, the title would have to be "What values do you think all humans hold?" or "Do you think all humans have shared values?"
My context for the meaning of the sentence "Do you think all human beings have value?" is my understanding of basic English grammar. I assume @sillysassy (the OP) has that, too.
what value are you actually talking about?
value, noun the regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something.
ā That one.
I pretty much made it clear to you how I try to be part of humanity by sharing experiences and being vulnerable which often let's [sic] others put down their guard and they become vulnerable and share.
And yet you never answered the question of whether you think ALL human beings have VALUE to you or anyone.
Which is the whole point of this thread.
Many animals have been known to form strong emotional attachment to humans, I think they might value us.
@Travismo
Timothy Treadwell certainly thought grizzly bears valued him.
In regards to lesser animals valuing humans, it's important to consider a number of things:
It's important not to anthropomorphize animals. Most animals act on a risk versus reward systemāan extremely simplistic pain/pleasure dichotomy. Higher animals, or animals with greater sentience...that's a bit different.
@DaringSprinter indeed, higher thinking animals such as dolphins, crows, octopuses, etc. have been known to form strong emotional bonds with certain individual humans. It would be presumptuous to assume that even the most advanced non-humans are incapable of thinking beyond the parameters of their conditioning.
@HogboblinZwei: Aw, honey, the nice folks are mixing us up again.
@Travismo: Personally, I think all animalsāhumans includedāvalue things using a basic pleasure/pain dichotomy. It's just that the more cognitive space you have available, the more things you have available to be pleased or pained by.
So a dog probably doesn't care whether you invest in oil companies or emotionally tear down your spouse, but another human might.
There's a fun little digression in war and peace about human value. You can read it [here] (http://www.literaturepage.com/read/warandpeace-1592.html)
We can't fathom the ultimate value of anything, but if we let our minds explore the possibilities, we see quickly that gratitude and awe are appropriate, skillful perspectives. We are each an indivisible interconnected part of the universe. Any one of us, helps unlock the mystery and wonder of everything.
My Rephrased Question was "Do you believe ALL human beings have VALUE to other humans intrinsically because they are a conscious being?" The definition of value in this context seems to be the Verb "to consider (someone or something) to be important"
Goodness!! I've been writing and then rewriting because of a different thought.... then a rabbit hole, and a new concept.... Here goes.... Please forgive me for the crazy long post. My brain hurts a bit after this week!!
In regards to comments made under the influence----------- I can understand what @DaringSprinter is trying to say in regard to having clarity when you are discussing important ideas. (Although I have many times found my thoughts wandering to new ideas more easily when I've had a drink or two etc.) What I appreciate about @Saysoh is that most of the time he lets us know that he's a little fuzzy around the edges and we can read it with that kind of context. That being said..... Its not nearly as much fun to read when ideas that don't have enough clarity turn into an argument rather than just a clarification of meaning. There are certainly times when something that is vague and enigmatic, philosophical or just ponderings and it is made out to be an absolute. That can be frustrating and seen as somewhat narrow minded. Thank you all for a willingness to share your truth... Even if you aren't quite sure WHY you believe what you believe. I appreciate that.
@mettamso Welcome to the site!!!! Thank you for sharing. The bee, as used in this subject of discussion, seen from so many different perspectives, seems to point to the possibility that if we are only interested in seeing one side of things, we miss out on the other possibilities and that we have narrowed our chances of understanding. That is a beautiful idea and a good reminder that our viewpoint isn't the ONLY point of view. Maybe if we can truly listen to something new, we would be able to find ourselves the beneficiary of a lot more knowledge.
I feel similarly to @Saysoh
I love to actually talk to people, hear who they actually are and also, open up myself to their ideas. I think we're way more complex than we believe, so my perspectives often shift on things by just having a conversation with someone.
What I have found here on these forums, is that choosing to value someone whoās posting, often gives me more ability to be openminded about what theyāre saying. It doesnāt matter if I agree or not. Thereās just a different vibe I guess. I miss in person connections a bit, but this is enlightening in a different way. I get to sit back and process. That being said.... I am so thankful to all that have shared their beliefs and ideas.
After thinking about this the last few days, I wanted to post. I didn't want to be hasty because there were some interesting things taking place in my brain and in my heart. I love that we can come here and for the most part be willing to discuss an idea and debate back and forth about the possible flaws in our thinking. I also wanted to make sure and start the conversation by saying what is YOUR BELIEF. I know that to believe something isn't the same as having absolute irrefutable fact and to me, that is what makes this all so fascinating and "discussable".
A few believe that people are born of equal value, but that it is possible to forfeit that through your actions. i.e. Hurtful people have zero value. A few believe that if there is intelligent design and humans are created beings, then they are important to the creator. Some believe humans have value based on their ability/inability to contribute to our society. Some others I've discussed this idea with believe that everyone born has POTENTIAL value.
Because we value the ability to have discussion........... "poisoning the well" or trying to discredit someone else isn't really what I'm hopeful to see. Especially in light of @HogboblinZwei and his thread that prompted this.... I want to believe that everyone intends to present their idea without all sorts of ugliness in order to "win" and in fact I donāt believe there is a RIGHT answer. In light of these responses and all of the other conversations Iāve had over the last 6 years it seems to consistently boil down to people believing they have value to themselves or because someone else is attributing it to them. No matter the reason you feel someone/something is assigning value to you, if you have at least ONE other person in your world making the claim āYou have importance to meā then we can all feel value. Of course, it gets messy when we think of all of the ~7.9 billion people in the world and like @HogboblinZwei says, āHow should I know? I haven't met everybody.ā I understand that it makes it more simplistic when there is a black and white answer of YES or NO to our question of human value, but then it wouldnāt be such an interesting exchange.
----------------------Hereās what Iāve been pondering most. The common ground we all seem to share is that sentient beings (which seems to be an agreeable term assigned to us as human beings) attribute value to other human beings because of CHOICE. Does someone have to have value to ME in order to have value. The answer is no. But what IF I choose to assign value to humans collectively as a whole? Because they are all a part of the workings that make up our community of humankind? What if, instead of a cosmic entity telling us that we should value humans because they are created, (again, it is someone/something outside of the individual assigning value and believers are told to value others out of obedience) as some believe, WHAT IFā¦ā¦ I choose to value them strictly because we have commonality? We have shared experiences for no other reason than we are all human beings. (Also, please donāt mistake this idea as a Pollyanna glittery acceptance of ugliness towards others, that belongs in the respect category) (side noteā¦ As @DaringSprinter mentioned, there are times that a focus and a positive valuation of self needs to be a priority because of years of abuse and then maybe circumspectly extended to a few who have proven to be safe in order to find healing, but there are those who are further down the path of loving/accepting/valuing self which frees us up to value others without sacrificing self.)
If you decide to live your life out here on this earth for however long that might be, even if you have a nihilistic tendency, there was mention about the other people in the world making your life possible. The cogs in the wheel per say. Someone, somewhere, creating an ability for us to plug in our laptops and toasters every day. Someone, somewhere, packaging the eggs Iām about to cook for breakfast. We function as a whole because of each one doing their thingā¦. Whatever they decide that is, for better or worse. Sort of like @mettamso and his bees. If you are a strategy type person, there was someone online saying āNevertheless, if you coexist with other reasonably competent and intelligent beings, it is probably a good idea not to give them good reasons to put an end to your existence if you can possibly avoid this. Indeed, giving them reasons to keep you around will often be the best strategy.ā I found this so interesting, even if you donāt want the warm fuzzy feelings that are said to come with an acceptance of valuation for everyone, there is a fairly convincing reason to TREAT people as though they have value. Who cares why, maybe itās a choice just like itās a choice to live in a country that has a declaration stating we are all created equally. Does that mean legally our society decides that we have value? If we as a society agree on something does that make it TRUTH or just a law? Who decides we are/aren't equals as humans? We seem to take this very seriously and throughout history have fought for a treatment of equality. (side thought I donāt understand why would we consistently do this if collectively we didnāt agree that we as human beings have equal value as well?)
As for me, I am making a conscious choice to value you, just because you are human, notwithstanding the fact that you are a part of this community..... this little sub text of the cuddle world that not everyone understandsā¦. Because that is FUN!!! Like being a part of an āin-groupā š We seem to have a desire to CONNECT to other humans. Even if its only one other human. There is beauty in shared experiences as some have spoken. Where else would I find a platform of unique ideas but still have a thread of similarity in the reasoning behind joining THIS community?
I am also choosing to align myself with people who desire this not because that makes me feel like I am right but because I would rather be with someone who as @funcartel wants to ameliorate the situation we find ourselves in. WE get to choose. I also have a hope, like @DaringSprinter to value myself, even if no one else does. I donāt want to leave it up to someone in my surrounding world to say yes/no based on how theyāre feeling that day. My worth as a human might all work out well as long as Iāve got my one person saying I matter, but what happens if they change their mind about me? What happens if they decide that they matter MORE than me? That gets a little dicey. If weāre not talking about something factual or scientific because it canāt be proven and all of this system of valuation boils down to a choice, then I think that is what I am going to do forthwith. I CHOOSE TO VALUE.
@xandriarain love it.
@sillysassy Thank you for the time and the thought that you put into this. I think that my position is similar to yours.
As I follow this thread, I've given some thought to paper money. Its value stems from the fact that people choose to value it. As you say, any of us can choose to value a human or group of humans. If I choose to value someone, they have value even if no one else has made that choice.
If the human I choose to value happens to be the one I call "me," then I have value, even if no one else has conferred it on me.
There are only a few members of this community that I can claim to know. I value those people ( @sillysassy you are one.) The other members who I don't know as well, I value in a general way, since that is in accordance with my personal sense of what is right.
Yes. However, the valve of a person is not always apparent. Just because we do not perceive the value doesnāt mean there isnāt value. I think there is something to be learned from each personās experience.
Do you believe all humans have value? The question of value implies ownership and exchange, and the question of the value of humans suggests the question of what it means to be human, which is also a question of origin, which is a question of history. Where does this all come from? There are certain things that I have been given, which I cannot obtain on my own: principally, birth, as well as everything that comes with it: my genetic make-up, my gender, skin color, my name, my place of birth. I am given a birth as a part of a chain of births that can be traced back to one of two origins: an evolutionary one, whereby the universe is my creator, and a designed one, whereby a Personal Designer is my creator. These things I was given, I was unable to possess myself. Someone else gave them to me. If nature gave them to me, and I believe as Darwin did that the laws of nature are writ in tooth and claw, then nihilism and the devaluation of others around me becomes a quick conclusion. But if they are given to me by a Person, then what I have been given is an inheritance, which has its own intrinsic value. I have shown before in other threads the scientific basis for believing in a Personal Creator of the universe. I will briefly summarize as follows: First, is that while the carbon dating method uses a C/C14 ratio, in order to have the ratio, you must have C14. The half-life of C14 is an observable constant: 5730 years. The majority of any nuclide decays away to insignificance after five half-lives. However, if a dead organism had the same mass of the earth in C14, it would only take 174 half-lives to reduce the quantity of C14 in the dead organism to one C14 atom, which is equivalent to 997,020 years, less than one million years. Consequently, no organism can accurately be dated in the millions of years. Second, the rate of decay of the human genome by copy errors in reproduction is faster than the supposed rate of evolution of the human genome. One could argue that molecule to man evolution is mathematically improbable since the possibility for evolution to occur (1:1x10^130) is greater than the number of atoms in the universe (1x10^80), and by no small margin. But we are here. No one has observed molecule to life evolution unassisted, much less molecule to man evolution, but we have observed the decay of the human genome, and subsequently itās rate. Itās the same as producing a Shakespearean play with enough monkeys, typewriters, paper, and time, while at the same time, copying the play and then copying the copy of the play, and copying copies, until the play cannot be distinguished enough to be a Shakespearean play. The time it takes to accomplish the latter is shorter than the former. Therefore, for me, it is scientifically more probable that the Creator of the Bible is the originator of humanity, than it is for the universe to produce a human by chance. Next is the question of the Scripture as a valid historical document. There are numerous archaeological references to Israel as a nation prior to 1948, including stelae in Egypt and Babylon, as well as sites within the current borders of Israel. The reign of Solomon is universally regarded as having begun in 970 BCE. There is much that can be researched by those who are honestly interested, and I am aware that there are those who express cognitive dissonance from investigating the truth claims of others. But I feel it necessary to include these prerequisites in order to forego the accusations of certain scoffers as being irrational. What does it mean to be human? So then, what it means to be human is to be created in the image of God, and that includes at a genetic level. For the evolutionist, humanity is part of the animal kingdom, and there is no genetic purity. Animals can mix with animals, so then humans can mix with animals. This is not only being done on a sexual level, but in the lab as well. But this is forbidden in scripture. Why? Because the image of God is pure and holy. But there is more to it than that. Adam was created; he was not born. As such, he was a son of God. Adam was given two things: a body that was compatible with the presence of God, the all-consuming-fire God, and the dominion of the earth, including the keys of death. The dominion of the earth was connected to his very life. If he gave it up, he gave up his life. Where does ownership lie? What is the value? Well, he gave it up, and his body compatible with God was replaced with the skin we wear today. With that, there was a prediction of two competing races: the seed of the woman, and the seed of the serpent. But the serpent owned both of them, by legal rights only. Adam had given it up by his disobedience. So, what does it cost to get humanity back? What does it take to get dominion back? God said that all the earth is His, and everything in it. He owns it by right of creation. It was given to Adam as the inheritance of a son. Well, a legal steward cannot possess the inheritance of a son. It can only be bought back with another life, the life of a perfect, obedient son. The Son has died, and His payment has been approved by the Father; we know that because He resurrected Him. But He has not cashed in on His work. That comes later. Until then, the serpent retains his legal position. Why is there death and pain? After God created the human race in His image, the Serpent began creating his own race in his image: a race of giants. The first wave of this race was destroyed in Noahās flood. His ark is currently lodged in the mountains in Durupinar in present-day Turkey. Other giants soon followed. They are known as the Anakim, the Rephaim, and the Nephilim or the bulls of Bashan. The most famous battle between these two races is that of David and Goliath. If you need any evidence of giants, just search for the Irish giants or Abraham Lincolnās testimony of giants in America. There is certainly a wealth of other evidence for them. If the serpent can destroy the race in Godās image, even though the payment for dominion of the earth has been made, he can prevent the transfer of that dominion to humanity. If no one is alive to take dominion of the earth, then the serpent retains his control. That is the purpose of death, and it is why death and abuse occur: to destroy the human race. In short, blood is shed as an exchange for power. We can see this is true or abusers, rapists, and murderers, regardless of race, human or not. In Cecil B. deMilleās āThe Ten Commandments,ā he introduces the film with some rather thoughtful questions. He said: āLadies and gentlemen, young and old. This may seem an unusual procedure, speaking to you before the picture begins. But we have an unusual subject: the story of the birth of freedom, the story of Moses . . . . The theme of this picture is whether man ought to be ruled by Godās law, or whether they are to be ruled by the whims of a dictator like Rameses. Are men the property of the state? Or are they free souls under God? This same battle continues throughout the world today.ā
Other thoughts: The only other aspect where the discussion of human value can touch on is the matter of pay. But one quickly finds that employers are not paying for a personās life; theyāre paying for a personās time and effort. A highly developed skill set takes more time to procure, through training and experience. It takes a greater portion of a personās life to achieve. So the value of the particular skill set a person possesses is higher. An employer who desires the skill set pays more for it, than he would for a lower skill set. So, a burger flipper or a janitor does not have less human value than a doctor or an engineer, but they get paid less because the time invested in developing burger flipping and janitorial skills is much less, and the quantity of people who possess those skills is much higher. This is more of an economics discussion than a values discussion, but I thought it prudent to inject to clarify its categorization. What may seem controversial in capital punishment is actually both a blessing and a deterrent: a life for a life. If capital punishment is not executed, then a murderer may kill 5 or 10 people before he is punished or executed. If the life of one person is worth the life of another, then it follows that he should pay for the life he has taken with his own. If he does not, he is free to take as many lives as he likes, and thus prove that human life has no value to him. The value of human life demands capital punishment for capital crimes. The blessing of capital punishment is the deterrent of murderers to create victims. A dead murderer cannot murder anyone else. In conclusion, yes, I do believe all humans have value, regardless of ability, disability, class, gender, or creed. Oneās value is what one pays for something. In our case, in the case of humanity, the price was the life of the Son of God. Since that price was paid for all humanity and there was only one payment, then the value of each human is equal to the other. We see this concept fleshed out in the Declaration of Independence. āWe hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.ā Well now, instead of self-evidence, we have a small body of evidence presented here, as the value of human life does not seem as self-evident now as it was then. But what is also evident is the devaluation of humanity by the serpent and by our fellow human beings. It was rightly said, āone manās trash is another manās treasure.ā The logical flow of a valueless society is not only abuse and murder and death, it is also the modification of genetics and the production of human hybrids using CRISPR and Cas9 gene editing technology. Weāve produced glow-in-the-dark pigs by splicing them with jellyfish. What more human-animal hybrids can we produce? We have the ability to modify human DNA in an effort to stave off disease. But what do we produce but another class of humans, another reason to discriminate? This is expressed humorously in the movie Twins, with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito, and expressed soberingly in Gattaca, with Jude Law, Uma Thurman, and Ethan Hawke. The Scripture is the only book I have read that is vested in the wholesale blessing of the human race. I agree, there are self-help books for individuals that seek them out. But they cannot produce the hope and the goodness and the blessing for all of humanity that I see in Scripture. It is a book that literally says, āsee, I have put before you today, blessing and cursing, life and death. Choose life!ā I believe in the value of all human life. But not all humans do. Choose life!
@cookiecrumb: This is all just preaching. You could've said the same thing much more briefly like this:
"I believe humans only have value because a deity for which there is no evidence grants them value, and I disregard all scientific consensus in so doing."
Or you could at least have put your sermon in spoilers. Like this:
The question of value implies ownership and exchange
No, it doesn't. I value breathable air. Do I own it? It passes through my lungs: that's all. I value the light that allows me to see: do I own that? No! I value the existence of farmers: do I own them? No!
and the question of the value of humans suggests the question of what it means to be human
No, it doesn'tāno more than the question of the value of oxygen suggests the question of what it means for something to be oxygen. I believe you're stretching with these false statements because you want an excuse to proselytize.
I specifically included scientific facts to support my position.
@cookiecrumb: Where? Where were the scientific facts? All I saw were a bunch of inaccurate, unsupported claims with no citations or evidence.
Edited to add in-text links.
@cookiecrumb
"The Scripture is the only book I have read that is vested in the wholesale blessing of the human race."
It also promotes slavery, treating women as property, killing disobedient children, genocide, and rape.
What a nice book.
Yes, everyone has value. Even if that value is only for worms to feast on your decaying corpse.
I actually agree with this sentiment:
"This is all just preaching. You could've said the same thing much more briefly like this:
@Saysoh: š¤š»
Wow cookiecrumb what an amazing evidence for God thank you for sharing and taking the time to write that. I know there will always be mockers, but there are people that are searching. My hope is that they see their value in the God who is crazy about them. And they will let go of the pain that the world through relationships has caused them and stop blaming that on Him and allow Themselves to be truly loved by a God who is both father and mother. He says even if your mother and father forsake you I never will . He also says itās better to throw a noose around your neck and throw yourself into the sea then cause one of my little ones to not believe in me. So a lot of unbelief comes from hurt and pain from people that were supposed to love you. God knows everything heās the father of everything and he has a mothers heart also. Heās a fierce lover and protector. Heās allowed us free will. Heās not forcing us to love Him we are not robots. What is love if itās forced if youāre forced to love someone itās not real love. There are many scientist who can attest to the fact that God is real just by common sense they have discovered this. They with understanding of DNA are left without question on whether God is real. Computer program is a series of binary numbers ones and zeros the sequence of ones and zeros instructs the computer what to do. In the same way all the functions in place inside the body are controlled by a complex extremely long code written in the DNA which is placed inside the nucleus of all the cells inside our body. Here is an example if you are walking on the beach and see a message written Kim you are my best friend, what is the chance that the waves wrote the message itās not possible. Someone had to know you to write that message. How then can we neglect an intelligent mind behind a simple message. Information comes from intelligence. A scientist name Francis Collins heās doing a human genome project, he says DNA comes from instructional script like a software program sitting in the nucleus of the cell. Whole functions of the body are decided by the DNA code the code is 3 billion letters long. If you think the simple message written on the beach could not come by waves how could you not see that the incredible long and complex code of 3 billion letters written inside the nucleus, who placed that there? How can one not see thatās an intelligent being. The DNA code contains all the information and instructions letters ATGC this code has instructions for healing itself it copies to new cells before it dies. Thereās so many examples in the world Mount Rushmore it could not have just happened someone designed it someone sculpted it someone carved it. Someone also said if you throw a box of Cheerios on a table randomly that could just happen but if somebody writes A message with the Cheerios saying I love you on the table in the morning that was somebody that had an intelligent thought and placement of the Cheerios. It couldnāt randomly happen if you just throw the box of Cheerios on the table.
This is not meant to be mean or derogatory to anyone but itās common sense that thereās a Creator. Thereās an intelligent designer. I do not have enough faith to believe that I came from a fish. If you look around at the creation the beautiful mountains and oceans and seas and waterfalls, caverns, caves flowers and everything was designed.
I always wonder if these people who mock and donāt take time to really listen to what someone writes if theyāre really ever searching for God. Why would someone just assume that he doesnāt exist without giving Him a chance. The simplicity and the beauty of life is found in a beautiful Father Creator God!! He said we were made in His image, if that does not cause awe and wonder, I donāt know what doesā¤ļøš
Yes-- all humans have intrinsic value that doesn't go up or down based on your actions.
@pleaseloveme55 excatlyš