@JoyfulHeart
I recognize that certain conditions in our childhood and youth can teach us that a direct approach is dangerous.
This! This is exactly my problem. Part of me apparently still expects a relative giant to grab me, drag me off, strip me, and beat me black and blue the second I dare to say something direct and to the point, especially if anyone on earth might call it "rude." Gah.
Probably lots of people have this same problem to differing extents. Like you, I'm working on it, too.
@me2: Cats are territorial animals, and don't have strict dominance hierarchies among themselves. Dogs are more about the pack, and do.
Whatever Temple Grandson may have thought, I doubt a lack of ability to apologize is a factor in the escalation of cat fights... and I don't think a strict dominance hierarchy among cuddlers is what we need on this forum. Humans are humans. Cats are cats. Dogs are dogs.
As humans, I suspect not communicating directly is one of our ways of avoiding conflict. If all communication were direct, concise, and clear, how could we claim to have been misunderstood?
In the interest of clear communication, though:
Sarcasm tags are very helpful when you want to be sure everyone knows you're being sarcastic. No need to drop sarcasm altogether.
@me2
The critique is more on the effectiveness of tone and word choice
(Emphasis mine)
Tone has been mentioned in past threads, with moderators starting that they will not "police" tone. me2 makes a good point here, though.
I'm going to guess that most posters have a reason for posting, and that many cases, that reason is related to a desire to illuminate faulty thinking, to educate, or to persuade.
While there are no rules against sarcasm and the like, I think me2's comment addresses the fact that it may not accomplish the goals I suggested in the previous paragraph.
As human beings, we sometimes have other goals. If those goals include a desire to make ourselves feel superior by making someone else feel small, sarcasm can be very effective.
Having said that, I want to state clearly that I don't know anyone here well enough to make a judgement on what motivates them. I make no such judgement.
@DaringSprinter
I think that sarcasm tags can be a great idea. They would cue a reader to when the sarcasm starts, and when (or if) it ends.
Even with my comments about sarcasm, I believe it can shine a light into areas that are difficult to reach otherwise, as long as the person hearing or reading it knows that's what it is.
I don't care what you identify as. This trio of trans activists were the main reason the guy is gone. Period. You see transphobia EVERYWHERE. I'd like to see what they wrote Mike in private messaging. You knew the guy was lonely AF, autistic, and just trying to be engaged in something because we're still in a GD pandemic. You come here with your meaningless essays in the early mornings, and talk shop with each and get off in one upping everyone. Mike was a paying customer of this site. Newsflash: it's not trans people who make this site work: it's it's straight men who pay their money to cuddle with women. Be very careful who you alienate.
@Libra0 "This trio of trans activists were the main reason the guy is gone. Period." "Newsflash: it's not trans people who make this site work: it's it's straight men who pay their money to cuddle with women. Be very careful who you alienate."
You hit the nail on the head.
And @JoyfulHeart This is exactly why tone is an issue and I haven't agreed with anyone who has stated that tone doesn't matter. That's BS.
@Libra0: Hey, now—you don't know how many of those women (orientation irrelevant?) and straight men are cis, and how many are trans.
Be very careful who you alienate.
More seriously: neither I nor my partner said a word to Mike that wasn't public. So much for the accusations... and if the main reason a person who said something unacceptable is gone is that other people spoke up, well—so be it.
Personally, I'd be just as happy if he did some research, thought about it, and came back more aware of and able to avoid falling for the tactics bigots use to hurt the people they hate.
@Libra0
"I don't care what you identify as..."
This must make it difficult for you to discern when marginalized groups are denigrated. To me, this kinda sounds like a bad thing. Good for you...I guess?
"This trio of trans activists were the main reason the guy is gone."
I can only see this being the case if, with our powers combined, a physical manifestation of Trans Activism burst into Mark403's abode, took over whatever he was typing at, and went through the process of deleting his account. I, personally, don't see what I did as being anything related to trans activism. I saw a group of people being shat upon for simply existing and thought, "Golly, that's not very tubular."
"I'd like to see what they wrote Mike in private messaging."
Sure!
Screenshot of conversation removed. [-Sid]
My most recent sent message predates this whole shebang. I've made some modifications to the image, to protect the identity of those I've spoken to—but I feel it's fairly obvious that I hadn't been speaking to Mike403.
"You knew the guy was lonely AF..."
No, I didn't. Believe it or not, I don't keep a corkboard full of profile pictures, with little bits of string connecting forum users to a list of general vulnerabilities.
"...autistic..."
I've already shared my thoughts on this subject. If you want to treat autistic people like paraplegic toddlers who have been kicked in the head by malicious horses, go right ahead. Mike403 was, to my knowledge, fully capable of reading things. If he had the mind to share a transphobic article, even without knowledge that it was transphobic, he had the ability to process the many criticisms of the article and his behavior afterwards.
"...just trying to be engaged in something because we're still in a GD pandemic."
Oh, I totally get this. The other day I heared about this thing called "phrenology". Due to living during a pandemic, like every other human, I very nearly shared my discovery with this forum—without doing any research into the matter. Before I came to my senses I formulated various arguments in my head, just in case someone tried to shoot me in the face with word bullets—as a preemptive defense.
But then Corona's grip on me loosened. I shook my head, as if to cast away the nefarious webs that the pandemic had spun around my grey matter, and I realized that everything I was doing was incredibly stupid. Thank goodness. The pandemic almost got me.
"You come here with your meaningless essays in the early mornings..."
Huh. And here I thought that my essays had meaning. I could have sworn that they're all generally about something. I know that @DaringSprinter writes things that have points. Maybe you missed them? Please consider reading them again. Also: @DaringSprinter and I both post in the mornings because that's the best time to launch a psychological attack on people—to tear out their minds and burn their souls. Ya gotta strike when the iron is hot, you know? We're not nocturnal or anything. No.
"Mike was a paying member of this site..."
Ah, I see. So if I were to spend money on this site, I too could post transphobic things, devalue the valid concerns of others, and then avoid accountability. Neat!
I don't think I'd go for transphobia, though. That's not cool. I'd probably say things like "people with poor reading comprehension should be sterilized", or something. Man, to have a suit of armor made from money! I can dream.
"Be very careful who you alienate."
Oh man, I don't want to alienate straight men! History shows that they've had it rough. You know what, in solidarity with every victimized straight man, I'm gonna touch a football and watch Fox News. For at least a minute.
Thank you for helping me to make a positive change.
The amount of disgusting remarks that have been made on this thread are astounding. And for once it's not from @HogboblinZwei ... those of you that are still viciously fighting over this are really showing your privilege and it's not a good look.
Never once did @HogboblinZwei or @DaringSprinter or anyone else tell @Mike403 he should leave or make fun of him even. Their words are blunt and I'm sure sting but that's because so many times interactions are sugar coated. I dont always agree with their delivery either. However the message in this thread has been extremely important. The people ignoring it are the problem.
And implying that because you pay for a service means you can marginalize entire communities makes me physically sick. Should those who pay for services on this site be allowed to marginalize women? How about those with disabilities? Fat people? Should they be allowed to be racist?
Let's all take a step back here and calm down.
I'm just getting my weekend started. I'm going to start with a Dave Chappelle netflix special, followed by rereading some books from one my favorite authors, J.K. Rowling.
How about you fellas? 🙂
...Can't tell whether @MCcuddles2 is actually an anti-trans bigot, or just promoting anti-trans bigots because he wants to keep people upset, angry, and hurt.
Tone indicators would be very useful here.
Woah, again with the attacks. I'm trying to move this thread towards a more positive note.
@MCcuddles2: Ah, allow me to rephrase.
Since Dave Chappelle and JK Rowling are both infamous for their bigotry against trans people, I find it difficult to believe someone would endorse them in a thread like this one unless they intended to either
A display genuine solidarity with bigots, or
B display pretended solidarity with bigots.
It's possible that I could be missing something, of course. Am I?
I don't consider these people bigots. I instead consider them accomplished artists, and victims of manufactured outrage, which is alongside the theme of this thread. You are free to hold your misguided opinions. I'm sorry if mentioning them may hurt your delicate sensibilities.
I am not endorsing anyone, I am simply sharing my weekend plans. Now please, stop tagging me. I don't care and am not interested in any dissertations you may be trying to peddle.
Hmm. I may be autistic, but even I can spot that someone who calls certain women "men" is viciously bigoted against those women.
HP Lovecraft is one of my favorite authors—but I wouldn't bring him up in a thread where non-white people had just been attacked. No matter what my plans for the weekend were.
Reviewed. Removed. Cleaning this thread up, one personal attack at a time. [-Sid]
Thank you for the points tagged/sent (to those it applies to).
I'd like to extend an apology to those who have taken issue within this thread. Those who shared their offense, stated their reasoning and didn't have their feelings acknowledged, and in some cases took later posts as further insults (which to be fair some read like they clearly meant them that way).
I believe I likely offend people more than I'm aware of, but I take some responsibility when it's pointed out (I wish others did too).
All that said, I'm sorry if I contributed to any harm caused here. When speaking up for one, it's not to discount another. In this thread, I felt the majority of points made were not only valid, but spot on as well, and didn't need my agreement stated as it was so clear they were in the right.
In hindsight though, I think my nature to want peace, for everyone to get along, be reasonable when they disagree, approach with consideration, etc. I wound up doing the opposite because I only advocated for one side and where it seemed they were coming from. It wasn't to excuse them though, just to provide an alternate perspective.
And though I do think it was more a result of clulessness, misunderstanding, and poor timing, than a want for perpetuating problematic/hateful rhetoric/misconstrued stereotypes, there's really no reason one can't say, "Whoa. Sorry." Or, "I don't understand, can you explain?" Etc. The lack of that, isn't acceptable (especially in this case) and when left unsaid leaves room to assume the intent was to cause harm, deflect, rinse, repeat and run.
What a bummer all the way around.
💙❤🤍❤💙 im sorry to any transgendered people out there who may have been hurt reading this thread. You are valid and not defined by the views of a few transphobes on here. So many people are standing with you. 🏳️🌈
^^^ Same here @CozyWolfy . I love you all. Thanks for standing up and remaining true to yourself ^^^
In all honesty, I do love how my simple mind reacts to all the bells and whistles, occasional flashes of light and the generous sprinkling of glitter on this site. Being gone for a bit, I'd missed the speed at which my distaste for one and delight of another can flip flop back and forth in a matter of moments/comments and how we're all on display as perfectly imperfect beings.
Good to see above all else, there's still a lot of care and passion here ~ 💞
adding: I hope that threads like this don't get shut down. Sure there were some heated exchanges, but there is a lot of really good food for thought that has hopefully broadened people's awareness of issues that are impacting many members of our community and society as a whole.
We can all be and do better, but shutting down debate won't help us in getting there.
Never mind... lol @PeopleLikeUs I was commenting on yours then saw it wasn't the case. Wooop! ...deleted...
Yeah, somebody put it back into circulation.
Everybody wants to be a cat, cause a cat's the only cat, who knows where it's at - "The Aristocats" (Walt Disney)
@Vkashi: Being as safety is a serious concern for us LGBTQ+ folks, and being as bigots tend to either be very quiet or very hypocritical for a while after threads like this one....
Well, there's a lot of unmasking in this thread. Emotions running high. If you're curious about how people really feel, deep down, threads like this are fairly good places to get the info you need in order to decide who to be wary of—and who to trust—in different circumstances.
I know I sure use them that way.
Oh hi 👋 @Mike403 , didn’t realize you were back 😄