Prominent Pro Cuddler Quits

MxSmith

I just wanted to post this article here and say a hearty thank you to Samantha Hess who has been a pioneer in pro cuddling and has done incredible work to destigmatize cudding in general.

https://www.oregonlive.com/trending/2022/09/portlands-premier-professional-cuddler-quits-the-job-she-helped-create.html

Brandon87

❤️ Sam is an awesome human!

Minestrone101

Awwwww

ShaneSchrute

She lived in poverty to do pro cuddling? That doesn’t sound right. I don’t know what her prices were; her website no longer displays them (oh wait, Archive.org thank you); $60-$80 an hour. Okay that’s pretty cheap. But it’s worth far more. There are procuddlers who live in cheaper cities who don’t host and charge twice is much. When a pro cuddler has their own cozy space they can control and set up for me it’s worth much more to me than just someone coming over and now I have to clean and set everything up; which is stressful and the opposite of why I like cuddling.

She deserved to do better than living in poverty. Also I wonder what kind of financial planning and bookkeeping/accounting help she was getting. Cuddling is not a high overhead business. Sure you need space, employees, basic furniture, etc. But it’s not a float spa! For just one high end float tank it’s around $35,000 & you can enjoy them for the price of a higher priced pro cuddler.

I wonder what was going on there.

I understand finances weren’t the only or even one of the reasons she quit; but it literally doesn’t add up.

biancalovecraft

@Syins it doesn't add up because you literally haven't tried it, and I encourage you to make a go and show us all how easy and lucrative it is. Then follow up with how you literally quit
There are far easier ways to make a living.

ShaneSchrute

@biancalovecraft I’m asking a sincere question: if a float tank business with 10 times the overhead as cuddling can be a viable business why can’t cuddling be much more lucrative? Especially when the price points are pretty close.

I’m also a very literal person so if you’re trying to insult me by repeating the word “literal” it’s not gonna land.

ShaneSchrute

@biancalovecraft also. Do I need to try every business order to understand the math of it? Do I, for example, need to become a real estate agent to figure out why someone who is successful as an agent but is also still somehow not making money beyond the poverty level?

I’m not attacking or making any accusations against Hess. It just doesn’t make sense. I get to ask questions so I can learn so I’m not ignorant anymore.

Thanks,

• Shane

Connecticut1977

Good luck in your future endeavors!!!¡

biancalovecraft

@Syins, nobody is being attacked, you are welcome to extrapolate to your heart's content, but you seem to know a lot about business, albeit nothing other than what's provided at face about cuddling. My guess, since I'm experienced but not omnipotent, is you can make a bum rush on a dirty shoestring until the market or your reputation catches up. Then it's back to the call center in your granny's basement.

ShaneSchrute

@biancalovecraft okay so there’s probably financial costs to a cuddle business that aren’t obvious to me like unusually high taxes or having to be self insured.

A client can get an hour in a float tank for $120 or cuddling in their own home for $120. I have friends I cuddle with for free. They are awesome, full of love and joy. But getting a float tank at home costs 10s of thousands of dollars and lots of upkeep.

So there’s some hidden financial cost to pro cuddling. I know self insuring means having millions of dollars. Maybe it’s something like that.

Again I’m just talking about finances. I know there are more factors than just that.

Bryan123

She seemed like a really good cuddler. I am saddened she quit, but I hope for the best for her.

CuddleDuncan

@Syins overheads in cuddling are significantly more than most people think, but yes you are right they are not a key determinant of the business.

To answer your specific question about a float tank ... well, first off, a float tank doesn't have emotions. It can just churn customers one after another, and almost none of the customers attempt to have sex with it. (And even if they did, it wouldn't mind.) It also has a physical presence which yes, is an expense. But it's also a monster marketing channel.

The problem lies at the top of the P&L: revenue. Firstly, the headline rate is completely irrelevant, and tells the outside observer basically nothing about the individual cuddling business in question. Creating an economically successful cuddling business is extremely difficult, for a number of different reasons. Here are some of them, in no particular order ....

Generating revenue is tricky because a majority of potential customers, by their very nature, are not well off. You are competing for a big slice of a small disposable income.

Cuddling is new and relatively unknown. This significantly reduces the value of most traditional marketing, because you have to explain the product from scratch. Sure you can do this, but it's expensive and requires extra skill. Most small businesses rely on no marketing at all because their product is well understood by the potential consumer.

A corollary of that is that many new customers require significant education, and many others bail even after receiving the education. This is exacerbated by the nature of the client base: some of the potential customers prove themselves to be not suitable for cuddling, and others just can't pull together the energy or courage to do it.

A significant minority of enquiries are abusive. This is not only emotionally exhausting, but time-consuming. Not a problem faced by most small businesses.

A huge proportion of clients, for reasons that I do not fully understand, only book once. This is nothing to do with the quality of the experience they receive. A consequence of this is that many new professionals find attracting clients quite easy for the first few months. But after that, it just gets harder and harder because most of the client base has seen you once, and that's all they will ever do. You end up on relying on new entrants, and because cuddling isn't well known there aren't very many of those each week. In business it is very hard to make a good living without a decent number of repeat customers: the exceptions are mostly for high-value sales.

The most cuddling you can do routinely is about 20 hours a week, and even that is a lot. (This would involve a 40-80 hour workweek.) You can do more on special occasions, but it's not emotionally sustainable. That's the maximum, remember. The average will be a lot less.

In cuddling, the number of client enquiries is astonishingly variable: the standard deviation is much higher than you might imagine. In other words it's a bit feast or famine, with no reason behind it. This introduces yet more emotional stress and makes planning difficult.

And then, if everything goes perfectly, and you get a great client who comes back ..... what you are trying to achieve is that they don't need your service any more.

TL:DR
The business model for cuddling doesn't just suck, it basically doesn't add up. Nobody in their right mind would attempt to make a living this way.
Edit: which is why I am brim-full of admiration (and gratitude) for those who do.

ShaneSchrute

@CuddleDuncan it doesn’t add up! That’s why I asked. Thank you for a good answer.

@CuddleDuncan for real!!! That was an amazing answer!!! I really respect that you respectfully took the time to think through and lay all of that out!!!

This part: (Those cuts include burnout and bad landlords, “seeing my life is still a joke to so many,” and “feeling that no matter how much I give, there will always be more to do than I can offer.”)

I see this (everyone thinks it's a joke) every time I see an article about cuddling, even the most recent one I saw by Xandrarain - if you read the comments, they are so cringe.

And this: (She said she couldn’t point to one particular moment when she realized she needed to end her career as a cuddler, but likened it to suddenly understanding that Santa Claus isn’t real.

“I have lived my life as an optimist,” Hess said.

But over more than 4,500 session hours with clients and “nine years of witnessing endless trauma and tragedy,” she said she realized that that optimism, that she could work hard enough and love people enough to heal them, “is kind of like believing in Santa Claus.”)

Yikes. Basically she stopped believing in cuddling as a viable profession. But it all kind of comes across like someone in an essential oils MLM trying to "fake it till you make it" to convince others to join under you, promoting the illusion of a lucrative business.

pmvines

I'm not a pro cuddler so I'm not going to write an essay on why someone might not tbe able to make money doing it . They do a good job on speaking for themselves. I will say that 100.an hr isnt based on a 40 hr work week , and once you turn it in for taxes as you are required to do if it is above a certain income , then a good deal is gone . Plus health insurance , etc if you want that. Cost of living depending on where you live etc. It is one thing if it's a side hustle or if you are a student or have a partner who shares expenses. Much different if you are trying to support yourself solely on cuddling though .

MxSmith

I gotta say, the exhaustion over not being taken seriously is real. And the weird aggressive disgust... I don't know how to manage that. Usually if I can speak to someone to their face and explain, they are able to imagine how this makes sense and is valuable. Still, It hurts to tell 97 year old grandma (who has been a model cuddler for me my whole life) and have her say with disgust "oh, so you are one of those 'touchy feely' people". I realize how much harder it must have been for Samantha back in 2013 when things were just starting and it was a new concept for everyone.

I lived in Portland, Oregon, where Sam Hess is located for about 10 years, and it's such an open minded city as a whole, I'm surprised to hear how much she struggled to be respected.

I feel sad that she has quit, but I understand, and I'm grateful for the amount of personal sacrifice she has given to help all of us.

In a different article, she's quoted as saying the pandemic DID take a toll on her business (other article said it didn't really affect her because business was slow anyway, she lived in poverty to do this work) but then in a different section of the article, she said she has "the financial abundance to truly be able to put myself first.” I don't think she's being entirely forthcoming about her business and reasons for quitting. @Syins I agree it doesn't add up and confirms some things for me in my own mind as a former pro.

https://www.pdxmonthly.com/health-and-wellness/2022/09/samantha-hess-portland-cuddling-professional

JohnR1972

I have to admit, the very first time I saw the phrase “professional cuddler” was on a person’s LinkedIn profile and I laughed because I thought it was a joke. But I am so glad I looked into it and discovered it was real.

@Syins - I think you may be overestimating how many paid hours per day a pro can work. While the financial overhead may be lower than other businesses, the time overhead is probably higher. I enjoy floating but unlike a float business, pros need to spend time doing some level of vetting of potential clients before spending time alone with them. They also may spend more time communicating, scheduling, cleaning their space between clients, etc. so the percentage of time spent they actually get compensated for may be a small percentage of the total time spent.

Add to that the burnout factor @Moxytocin mentioned and I think it all adds up. I appreciate pros and I don’t even pretend to think I could do what they do.

I've said for a long time that the people who make the most income from this are people who not only independently cuddle, but also come up with businesses where they offer cuddle courses, paid memberships, and contract out or hire other cuddlers under them. It's a whole racket.

theraputichugs

It read like she is drained of energy, competition,fulfillment of her discipline and mentioned what others thought about her and her profession which I see that the western world is more accepting of touch therapies in hospitals and nursing homes and more. Studies show that the infant who is held and “cuddled is stronger and healthier than the infant who has been abandoned and has no or less touch and I’ve been able to offer my services in nursing homes. It’s soothing and calming and much more. Mind body and soul fixing and healing and it’s noticeable to other workers and appreciated too. I’m thinking she is burnt out, or just wants to move on. and a desire to move on and possibly pursue a new path. Plus business and money handling issues, cuddling and empathy doesn’t mean a good business person. Maybe a rebrand and let others handle the business side. After all these years and still owing investors money or needing investors at this point is something I would not think she would want or need. I’ve cuddled with $100+ cudlers who are really not “energy” workers and I’ve recently found a few that have lowered their prices because of COVID and the economy. Which tells me they are empathetic and serious about their energy work and are great cuddlers who have more customers and are working all the time because of the lower prices. One has more than a 40 hr cuddling week with more clients and more energy and empathy. Plus making more money than those charging $100+ to $200+ cuddler who is only interested in the money and not transference of energy which as a healer myself, I know that I receive as much as I give or more. Many cuddlers also do this as a secondary income to supplement or to give to others who need healthy healing platonic touch as we all do especially during this pandemic and it’s affects on people. I’ve been to many different cuddle sites. Some are dollar focused and I can not set up a session without paying the site their percentages (which not all are as generous and as helpful and accommodating as cuddlecomfort.com. I delete karma and friends and ask not to send me any. Others solicit me for karma and friends with out even having a session. It’s varied and a great experience and I feel is a great profession if it’s what you choose to do in helping others and your self. A cuddler with a day job and in a room maté situation always greets me with a big hug and holds me as we drive to our cuddle session place after I pick her up and when I drop her off also. Though as soon as she puts her head down on the pillow she out like turning off a light switch. Snoring and sometimes drooling. I’m very aware of her situation and never intentionally wake her. I feel she must be exhausted from working a 8 hour or more shift and having roommates probably isn’t the most conducive situation for getting good sleep. Though she never or rarely by rolling over in her sleep touches me which I very much need and pay for. Especially a hand on my back or shoulder having me feel supported, secure and safe which I didn’t get as a child/adolescence which I hate to blame my childhood situation for what I need as an adult. Yet through many modalities of therapies in my lifetime and my travels I’ve learned that I need it. Regardless of why. I’ve never charged for reiki, acupressure and other ways of healing touch. I did after many sessions getting to know and care about her. I set some expectations and boundaries for My healthy healing platonic process which she was unable to fulfill even after our conversation about what I needed from a session. She needed her sleep and a safe quiet place to sleep and I needed to get a new cuddler. My go to cuddler moved across the country and I have not found another healer and cuddler yet as great as she. I’m rambling on and off topic. Some cuddlers stop because of their relationship or getting into a relationship. I’m not in a relationship right now but probably won’t look to cuddle with anyone else because I’d communicate my needs and offer to fulfill hers also as I’ve had in a few past healthy relationships.
Happy cuddles to all
Ps- now I need to reread the article which was posted at the beginning of this thread.

Minestrone101

I think it's a lot easier to be a freelance cuddler than to have a brick and mortar business: paying for rent, receptionist, cuddle employees, decor, marketing costs, employee benefits, etc.

If your business is down, your rent or back rent accumulates and suddenly you're $30-50k in debt...and we're not even talking about employees on payroll (commercial rent could be $5-10k per month). A whole year of that could put her in 6 figures debt.

Maybe it would have been better to down scale her operation or adapt/pivot her model, but due to the kind of person she seems to be, she probably tried tooth and nail to save it and with genuine purpose... some folks probably let her down along the way and here she is.

Being an independent cuddler is way better : way less overhead, can use your residence for business, the website helps draw in cuddlers so you don't have to market and advertise, can set your own prices, and you choose your own hours.

OnTheJourney

“It might make other people’s lives better,” she continued, but “at some point, I have to matter, too.”

I think about this. I've only cuddled with two Pro cuddlers a few times, but always wondered if I've "taken" too much energy and not given enough or any of it back. I try to be mutual, or I think I am, but often wonder if Pros just suck it up and say they're alright when really they're not.

This is probably unique for everyone, but maybe some form of aftercare for the Pro should happen. The trouble is the best aftercare is sometimes a lot of cuddling.

I'm going to take this as a lesson to make sure I'm staying as actively engaged with my cuddle partners needs as I think I am and make sure they know that they can have full focus from me as well or whatever they need to end the session in a good state.

theraputichugs

@OnTheJourney i love your outlook on being concerned about and conscious about taking more than you give. I always feel that I give more than I receive. Yet that’s okay. I’ve learned with many different experiences and things in my life that you get back in return as much as you give and even more. Especially when the energy flows through you. Thanks for pointing out that quote also.
🙏🙏🙏. Cuddling and it’s affects was on an episode of a showtime series. Over dramatizing it a bit. Though showing the power of touch. He started crying right away with a big hug and gentle words from the cuddler. Which I’ve experienced a release of emotions and tears and feelings and a release of trauma stored in my body years ago by healthy healing platonic touch.
Very transformational for me at that time and point in life. The clip is on YouTube. I’m not sure where or what show it was on. Great stuff.
I need to thank cuddlecomfort.com for their support and continued efforts in making this a world wide success and influencing and informing the world about this. I tell everyone one who talks about loneliness and isolation, depression and other issues. They are amazed that they are not alone in their need for a hug or cuddle. Like I was also when someone told me about this site.
Thank you 🙏

Sugarwalls

Renting a space isn’t cheap

Babichev

The article certainly is confusing. However, there’s an important clue in there about a significant problem, her saying that finding out she could not heal people no matter how much she loved them was a real blow to her. That’s a sign of poor professional boundaries. When you are in a helping profession, you absolutely cannot assume you can “heal” people and take it personally when it doesn’t happen the way you think it should. This kind of thinking is bad for both client and the professional.

It also mentions landlords and employees so it does not sound like she was a solo practitioner. Renting space is expensive and managing employees can be a real headache. The article says she did (over) 4500 sessions during nine years. That’s an average of 10 sessions a week, fifty weeks of the year. If one is paying rent, that takes out a big bite, and self-employment tax is 15%. Do the math.

I’m sorry that her career came to a disappointing end no matter what the reason. It sounds like she was well loved and respected by her clients and peers and that she did a lot to promote platonic cuddling.

pmvines

@Babichev I feel like the comment about not being able to heal her clients no matter how much she wanted to also resonates with my opinion that people should not look at cuddling to heal them or to cure their conditions. If someone who did this for so long and put so much into it recognizes this, then so should potential clients as well as other pros . Cuddling is awesome and I like to do it whenever possible and encourage others to do the same , but dont romanticize it as some kind of miracle water or prayer cloth .

MxSmith

@Babichev when I read that sentence about not being able to heal people, I thought the same thing. Emotional boundaries are very tricky, whether pro cuddler or CC moderator I imagine. We all run the risk of getting burned out sometimes even with what we think are good boundaries. I don't know Sam's story at all, but I think for myself, even with good emotional boundaries, if I had a regular client who suffered with depression and one day they were very late and I decided to stick to my guns and cancel the appointment in order to enforce a boundary and this resulted in my client self-harming or committing suicide or relapsing into a serious addiction, it would affect me. Even while knowing it's not my job to "save" or "heal" them. I'm sure the thought would swirl in my head every day, "Did I really need to cancel that appointment?" I think even licensed therapists struggle when a client deteriorates rapidly. It's hard to not question what we could have done, said. Or wonder if we made things worse.
None of us have the power to heal anybody, but our actions do impact others and that weight can feel very heavy indeed. This is not to mention what it may feel like to receive outside criticism and ridicule from people who don't exactly get it.

I'm just trying to imagine how someone who I'm sure must have understood emotional boundaries could still end up getting completely burned out.

MissAdventurous

I always enjoyed my chats with Sam, I hope she finds the peace she seeks, emotional burn out is very real for us. ❤️

xandriarain

So a mentor of mine also knows Sam well and has advised her on her business. And her most significant issues were that she undercharged and that she paid her employees a salary or hourly wage rather than have them make a commission based on sessions. So she often had to go into her own pockets to pay her employees. Sam has a big heart and always put other before her own needs.

I was also disheartened when I heard the news a couple of weeks ago, she was a huge inspiration to me in creating my own office spaces, and I can attest that the overhead is quite high; I would say close to half of my income goes right back into my business.

As @CuddleDuncan said, marketing is a real challenge, and clients have limited disposable income. I can work really hard to bring in a new client, only to have them disappear after a couple of months. Often I spent money on ads only to find out that the people who responded to them assumed I was a sex worker or a massage therapist.

I really hope that this industry can reach mainstream success and acceptance sooner than later. It is quite an exhausting uphill battle to fight on top of running a business.

me2

@OnTheJourney respectfully I think you might be overthinking it. With a friend or enthusiast it’s absolutely important to think about energy and who’s giving to who. As a client that’s not your job. You are the one paying for the service. It’s still important to be caring and considerate. Also having some kind of mutual connection is crucial if anything therapeutic is going to occur, but the pro should be… well… professional.

I agree with Babichev that it seems a matter of keeping healthy boundaries. I also agree with pmvines that there should be realistic expectations for what cuddling does. I’d guess that most people paying for cuddling aren’t even getting their baseline quota of physical contact so you’re partially paying for basic maintenance that really should be coming from our communities. If someone is intuitive with touch and energy they can totally help with trauma release and depression but unless they’re trained they can’t give the additional supports of explaining how trauma works, teaching self soothing, pointing out when someone is stuck in their own stories, ways of combating dissociation, or any number of things the other types of trained therapists can do.

It also took me awhile to realize that physically comforting people is emotionally draining for most people. It doesn’t do this for me (which is why I didn’t realize this for a long time) but I think it’s very exhausting for most. This is probably especially true for people who are extremely empathetic (either naturally or because they’ve had trauma that’s made them hyper aware of other’s emotions,) because they take on whatever emotions the other person has. Professional therapists train to avoid this.

I’ve actually become a little skeptical of the industry myself lately. I’ve put a lot more time and effort into seeing a pro the last few months and there’s been a lot of unprofessional communication that’s made it not worth my time to look anymore. I even had a pro block me for no apparent reason other than I didn’t get back to her soon enough about when I would be in the area. When I see what a lot of pros are dealing with on the other end I’m kinda not surprised with how things are. I think it takes alot of time and effort and can put you into uncomfortable/potentially dangerous situations.

Just to be clear, I’m not anti pro. There are some of you I’ve had good conversations with that I’m sure you’re doing amazing work but you’re not in my area. I just think there are a lot of problems with our culture and how the industry has been developing within it. I’ve seen quite a few pro profiles that clearly want to get paid to have a mutually supportive experience. Also, most (almost all) pros I’ve contacted have raised their rates between the time of talking about compatibility to going to book. These are things that dilute the professionalism of the industry as a whole and therefore even harms the true pro cuddlers.

Between these types of unprofessionalism and the clients who push boundaries and make things unsafe, I can see how it starts to become not worth it for alot of pros and clients alike.

The site was originally made for people to connect mutually and have more platonic affection which is a wonderful goal. I don’t think we’ll see major changes in our society as a whole unless we create stronger communities that have more openness around platonic contact. Again I’m not anti pro, I think there’s a place for that, but I sometimes wonder if there are parts of the industry as a whole that are actually counterproductive to that goal. Kinda why I wanted to respond to onthejourney.

It’s sad that Sam feels like she’s not making a difference. My guess is that she actually has helped alot of people but it’s been overshadowed by the amount that she feels like haven’t had any true progress. And getting water when you need is still extremely helpful even though you’re still gonna need more later.