I normally disagree with @DaringSprinter on many things but gonna stand up for them today. I think attacking them for an innocuous comparison is really transphobic and racist. I mean three CIS male POC attacking a member of the LGBTQ+ community is beyond the pale. Pretty disgusting and not just IMHO. Should be ashamed of yourselves.
@supadupa Who's attacking? @DaringSprinter is my friend. I simply said I disagree with their point and I was quick to tell the other commenter that no one is a bish.
Also, a person can't be transphobic if the subject is not transgender.
Anyway, I hope we can keep this thread on track - I thought there were some really good points being made.
@NinjaTurtles It's sad that someone has to smile more or in my eyes be more like pre-Oscar Will Smith to be accepted. I blame negative media representation. It's so subtle that pple normalize the general bias in their minds and react or get defensive when that perception is challenged.
Final call. Any further flags or attacks on this thread, and it's getting locked, and I'll hand out Forum Time outs like it's Halloween candy. Super-sized.
Carry on.
@Sideon - What kinda Halloween candy? 👀 Asking for a friend.
You know I'll not cause issues though. 🫂
@Green_Eyes - Snickers (because I might/would/could). Or Big Hunks (because gay mod). Or Mounds (like the lumps I'd leave). But not Butterfingers, because time outs wouldn't be an accident.
FWIW, I don't consider my autism a disability. My brain works the way it works—society is what makes that a problem.
Obviously ableism, sexism, and racism are three different things; but I think they share similarities that help with empathy. And striving for empathy, even imperfectly, can't be a bad thing to do.
@Sideon
@DaringSprinter Wow, respect. Lots of things we all need to learn about autism.
Lots of people get upset when talking about race. Kinda shows that there's a problem imo. It makes pple uncomfortable and it makes pple want to deny and it makes pple angry.
Meanwhile, here's me being Chinese and chillin...
I want a gay mod candybar
Racially insensitive caricatures of fake sayings by Confucius created by non-Chinese. Not sure why you would post them here. SMH
Bc the metacognition is on point - making fun of others making fun. Also, it's my own group - it's not racist. There's a perception that any kind of race joke or topic is taboo and therefore bad.
Besides that, have you ever read the Analects? Good book. Besides that, Confucius laid the foundation for ancient Chinese culture, although some aspects of his philosophy can be seem as outdated and patriarchal (like the Bible) - but overall good.
Don't get me wrong, I got love for the Bhagavad Gita and Mahatma Gandhi and Yogananda too - it doesn't mean I'm not above posting memes about them (or myself for that matter).
Now am I a self-hating Chinsse person with internalized and imperialized perspectives of the self (maybe to appease the mainstream)? I hardly think so. But that meme is on point.
There's no need to argue or resort to violence...
lmao @cylee1180 - that meme made me laugh.
@cylee1180 i think the sharing of a racist cartoon is a problem even if your a member of the offended group. The words may be making a great point but it’s obliterated by the visual it’s contained in. IMO.
It also May perpetuate other negative stereotypes, like the manner people read “confusions sayyy”
@PrettyLuv - I love it.
@BashfulLoner Imo - It's no more harmful than Uncle Roger and I love Uncle Roger.
Besides for Asians in America, primarily East Asians, there were definitely certain phases of hatred and racism in history, and the meme kind of touches on a type from a few phases ago:
While I was hoping to convey some type of chronological order, it might be a bouncing back and forth with overall progress and occasional steps backwards.
I do think that Asian humor has to be kind of subtle, bc incorrectly it can offend many people and yet done correctly it is a laughing stock. I feel you can either poke fun at the stereotype (which in a way points out the stereotype and moves the audience beyond it) or throw the stereotype out the window and create your own wave (Ronny Chieng and Ali Wong are two of the most popular standup comics in the world now due to the second reason):
Ali Wong being extra:
Ronnie Chieng blending Asian values with Western perspectives:
And then you have bad Asian humor which earnestly reinforces old tropes (which is what I'm accused of) - all Asians look the same, Asian women are objects or servants, or the ole accent.
Pablo Francisco insisting that all Asians look like Jackie Chan:
Or Margaret Cho mocks her own culture and family to appease and humor a non-Asian audience :
Also, I feel good racial humor has an intimate knowledge of the culture or people, so they can make humor that's relevant (whether discussing distinct cultural idiosyncrasies, or making fun of running stereotypes). Examples: Asians driving import cars or being cheap vs. All Asians looking alike or how all Asian girls are hot (Asian fetish).
Even Uncle Roger's popularity can attribute certain qualities such as educating the audience of wok hei (heat from the fire under the wok), Chinese cooking methods, Chinese expectations and judgmentalism (culture and social issues), and discussing Chinese social norms.
The above meme is not gonna keep me from getting a job, or is not gonna lead to my being socially ostracized, nor will it bring my people back 50 years. It's just chuckling at an outdated, caricaturized trope that was more relevant in the 1980s and earlier. It was also popularized by an Asian comic and was hugely popular with an East Asian audience. And thus I don't feel bad about posting it.
@supadupa let me get this straight. So it's innocuous and benign for him to compare being black to being disabled, but offensive to the trans community when 3 people, who happen to be male, call him out on it?
Did you ever stop to think past their gender, that maybe they found the comment to be equally, if not more, offensive?
Just because he's gay doesn't mean he gets a pass on spouting racially inept comments.
@DaringSprinter is asexual and non binary/agender- not gay and transgender. While I disagree with the sentiment, I still have a lot of respect for them.
*Edit - I don't think it helps to misunderstand one group while defending another misunderstood group.
@PrettyLuv: I compared being the target of racism to being the target of ableism and sexism. In all three cases, you're discriminated against for something innate to you and out of your control.
Being discriminated against for something you can't change (and wouldn't change even if you could) is an experience people from many different groups can empathize with.
I think empathy is a good thing.
@jabraham96: I hope I didn't offend you with my attempt at expressing a little understanding and empathy.
I know what it's like to be prejudged and rejected for something that's only negative in the minds of the people rejecting me—and I know that sliver of shared experience barely scratches the surface of your unique experience. I understand so little, but one thing I know for sure: it sucks!
For the record Gedde Watanabe played Long Duck Dong in 16 Candles. And what @BashfulLoner said about the Confucius meme. The visual is terrible, it’s not far off from the racist propaganda cartoons they used in the US against Chinese. But hey that’s just my opinion. And no one is yelling or arguing. Just disagreeing vehemently.
No use to reply. No one read my last comment anyway. No group has a right to tell another group what they're supposed to find offensive or not. Have a nice day!
@DaringSprinter No, you compared an employer not noticing an autistic person's mannerisms, as akin to said employer not noticing the color of a black employee.
The fact that I have to point this out to you is annoying af, but the difference is, no one with a disability wants to have that disability and there are cures that are constantly being sought for it. The same cannot (or should not) be said of one's race, religion or gender as being a woman, or black or Jewish is not an impediment or cause to change oneself. So comparing any of them to those that are disabled is innately offensive.
@PrettyLuv: I compared unconscious bias against someone based on their autistic mannerisms to unconscious bias against someone based on the color of their skin (and to unconscious bias against someone based on their perceived sex).
The employers who rejected resumes with female names didn't consciously realize what criterion they were using.
Same goes for the employers who rejected resumes with non-white names.
Same for the interviewers who reject people with autistic mannerisms.
Now, you say no one with a disability wants to have that disability—as an autistic and a member of the autistic community, I object on the behalf of everyone whose natural way of being has been labeled "disability" and treated like an illness in desperate need of a cure.
We are healthy as we are. If we aren't always happy, it's because of the discrimination we experience daily.
I like the way my brain works. I like my autistic brain—I like my autism. It is not an impediment; it never impedes me! Other people do that. To "cure" my autism would be to remove one of the things that makes me who I am.
Suggesting that who I am needs a cure is offensive.
@achetocuddle @cylee1180 I appreciate your feedback. One way I get around the mental exhaustion of watering down my personality to be as non-threatening in American society as possible is to think of myself as a cool superhero, particularly Batman. That dude was a master of disguise, and in the 90's cartoon especially was able to adjust his voice and be completely non-aggressive during the day as Bruce Wayne. After work, he became the great Dark Knight and protected all of Gotham. For me, I don't actually become super aggressive and fight crime at night after work, and neither did pre-Oscar Will Smith, but the bass does return to my voice! Haha
@cylee1180 id never tell anyone how they should feel, i just shared how i feel about it. Beyond that be well.
@DaringSprinter i believe and understand you’d not make a comparison meaning do belittle either groups. However the comparison of any kind to either is pretty offensive. If they worked to bring understanding it would never be an issue. Most people live in more than of any group so you’d think empathy would be natural, clearly it’s not.
I hope i wasn’t counted as one of the 3 that were attacking someone, because 1. I would not and 2. Because of my time on CC I’d block a bus for @DaringSprinter. I’d think that’s be apparent.
@.DaringSprinter A lot of people who are disabled would take offense to your minimizing their disability (autism being one of many recognized by the government as such). There are several autistic children who absolutely wish for a cure to their autism and many parents who are suffering trying to find one and who wish they could write on forums like this without stint rather than having someone with their disability tout it as being anything but while taking their ability to do so for granted. Just because your autism is not as severe as others doesn't make it any less of a disability.
You weren't comparing unconscious bias at all. You were comparing someone not noticing someone's color as similar to someone not noticing someone's disability which is again an offensive comparison to make, because race is not a disability. The fact that you can't see that and continue to perpetuate this offensive rhetoric towards a people is akin to the anti-semitic, racist, and sexist passive aggressive, sympathetic but equally pathetic lingo that pervades this country's constant attack on a people different from themselves.
Contrary to your statement prior which involved a half-hearted apology, the ingrained prejudice you're saturated in shines though with a grotesquely abhorrent and disrespectful tone that I hope everyone can see for what it is.
@BashfulLoner I guess that just shows the effects of media and pop culture representation. Especially since like many groups, East Asians use stereotypes and misconceptions as daily humor within the group the way other groups would. Also, the more time spent with different groups, the more the stereotypes naturally fade away.
@ninjaturtle The bass! Reminds me...let me find a clip...
41 secs or:
@ninjaturtle I'm just one white person without all of the information or experience, etc. but I think you are eloquent and you have found one of the good ways to step on or around the system. I don't know how to say it, but it sounds like a great idea and that it is working for you. I wish you or no one felt the need to do it, I'm just happy it is working for you Best wishes on your cuddle quest. I hope you continue to post in the forum. You have such valuable insight and can explain it well.
@cylee1180 HAHA! Yes, those clips were spot on! @achetocuddle Best wishes to you, as well! Also, if Bruce Wayne had to do it to keep people from finding out he was Batman, I guess I can do it to keep people from automatically labeling me as angry/dangerous/violent/savage.
@ninjaturtle You are so funny on a such a serious subject. Lol.
@PrettyLuv: Oh, the "you can type so you're not really autistic" argument.
Coupled with the "some autistic people hate the way their brain works: that proves that the way your brain works is bad, Daring" argument. Nice.
Wrap that up with "the society that disables you by demanding non-autistic behavior and making concessions for non-autistic behavior (like ringing bells in public) but not for autistic behavior (like shutting down in pain when hurt by those stupid bells); that society, the one that disables you, it calls the way your brain works a disability—so your brain's function is a disability!"
The people who reject me and insist they didn't even notice my autism aren't lying, but they are wrong.
They noticed. Not consciously, but they noticed. Their bias is unconscious. They don't realize it's my autism they're responding to. And yet. I am, without a doubt, being rejected for my autism: for a part of my self that society hates, but that I love.
You say it's racist for me to feel empathy for those who are rejected for their race or sex—for anyone who is told that something they love about themselves makes them less-than?
Honestly, it really seems like you have some kind of vendetta against me.
Heck of a thing to wake up to.
You never know actually. But don't let it get to you based on whatever reason it could be. Focus on those more appreciative of your time and what you have to offer and not worry about the rest. Personally, I just reject cuddling lately because of my work hours. Cuddling was just a side thing but my main work has been keeping me extra busy so I just avoid cuddling much in general. So either way, don't take it personally. I don't know their reason, I just know my reason, but there are others available. Your race is cuddle worthy either way.