Limited Mentality

lonelytauros

I know this may be an odd title for thread, but I’ve been wondering what is the desire is to explore environments that seemingly were not meant to explored such as deep diving into the ocean or deep space exploration again my mentality is limited, and I would like someone to share why they think that there is a benefit to the human race for doing this? Is it aesthetic? Is it resources? What could it be? Is the risk worth the reward?

TxTom

Without going into space, we would not have developed the technology for GPS, cell phones, satellites, etc, etc, etc.

TxTom

And, yes, the reward far outweighs the risks.

Short term, some people are compelled to eat the red berries. Those that didn’t learn to NOT eat the red berries.

Long term, someone figures out (having watched others try and fail to eat those red berries) that if you pick them, dry them, bake them, combine them with salt and sugar, you get a delicious and edible jam.

VERY LONG TERM, we have no idea what we might learn from exploring and discovering. But it is literally how we got to where we are now, and humans really don’t have any other way to advance except by trial and error, and rinse and repeat.

Bear

Some people just want to be the first ones there. They want to conquer something. They want to say they did it.

warm_embrace

As I get older (and I presumably have less life to live), I have somehow become more risk adverse. I’m not sure if that a result of wisdom, or low “T”. Lol

CuddleDuncan

what is the desire is to explore environments that seemingly were not meant to explored

But of course they are meant to be explored! That is the very definition of exploring!!

It's just curiosity. The desire to know what's on "the other side of the hill". The desire to experience. To know what it's like to be there, and to know what "there" is.

The benefit to the human race is that we're not extinct. Species that do not explore in one sense or another mostly don't last long, although I'm sure there are exceptions. All technology - and I emphasis all - comes from exploring. "What happens if .... "

The reward always outweighs the risks, although not necessarily to the individuals involved.

xandriarain

We are all wired differently. I am very anxious and risk averse, at least when it comes to certain things. But some people live for the adrenaline, adventure and novelty, and are willing to risk their lives for that kind of excitement. I’m not easily impressed or excited and if I were to take the risk of exploring space or the deep ocean, I think the novelty would wear off pretty quickly and then I would just want to go back home. I really don’t see a point in dangerous exploration when I can just see pictures online without any risk or cost.

JohnR1972

My answer to the OP is embodied by the quote below. I have a poster of this quote hanging in my workout area in my basement.

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” - President Theodore Roosevelt

That last line, “his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat” is a powerful, daily motivator for me.

Some people are more risk averse than others and that is perfectly fine. This is an often overlooked and under appreciated form of diversity.

But those of us who want to go into space, or to the bottom of the ocean, or who enjoy jumping out of airplanes… we view the world a little differently.

@warm_embrace

It certainly is not ONLY the “T”, but that is absolutely a factor.

Young me was immortal, and even more importantly FELT immortal.

Old me knows better.

Let the young thems run and explore and jump and crash.

CelestialTouch

to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before...or to see peculiar creatures like these:

TxTom

@CelestialTouch Cool. But that creature's sudden movement at 1:10 looks artificial. The sea creature is real, but I think the video has been "enhanced," shall we say.

Ripley54566

To understand more about the universe and world around us of course! That's what science is all about. The information we constantly gain from both the ocean and space is invaluable in the world of physics for example.

Each discovery we make can be documented and later used to create new things. This is what engineering does.

And this process is exactly what created the civilized world around you. When we understand one component of the universe, we can it as a building block to create something new.

It isn't like we are taking pot shots in the dark either. Space and Ocean Exploration are both very expensive undertakings. We (most of the time) approach them with very precise measurements using systems developed and understood for hundreds of years. And from an economic standpoint, if they weren't profitable endeavors then no one would be investing in them.

CelestialTouch

@TxTom
Caught in the rotowash from the jets/propellers and appears to have been injured as a result, unfortunately

achetocuddle

Some people live for doing things that they think will make a good? story later to try to get an abnormal amount of attention. They tend to be troubled in some way. I'm only speaking of people I've met IRL. I'm kinda comforted knowing those submersible guys probably died instantly. I hope they did not have time to be scared.

achetocuddle

@warm_embrace I meant to also say that I've become less risk averse as I get older. I think it's mostly wisdom. Older people tend to be better able to adequately access risk and know whether or not the worse outcome will bother them much. This doesn't happen to every person that lives long enough; some people are never able to adequately access risk or grasp statistics, etc. But you are one of the ones that can. I'm glad for you.

PrettyLuv

@CelestialTouch thats an amazing creature and so surreal looking. Its like a jellyfish but really amazing looking. I found another video on it:

Like others have said exploration is paramount to discovery and advancement. I think where the sub CEO went wrong was in making people pay for seats on a beta tested vessel. He could have at least alerted them to the serious lack of design certification and the real potential for design failure under that pressure.

society moves forward because of the quest for knowledge.

lonelytauros

I do find it interesting that some of the comments tie in exploration with technological advance, but when I think of it, I ponder the cockroach with no technological advances whatsoever that survived what dinosaurs couldn’t, and will be able to survive what humans cant if a nuclear catastrophe were to happen

Difference between surviving and living, although who knows?

Maybe cockroaches are having a magnificent time.

CelestialTouch

@PrettyLuv
Thankyou for that vid! They actually had some specimens at a local aquarium but they had to keep it like really dark.

Jubal

OP - absolutely the risk is worth the reward, and there is a benefit. Humanity eventually has to reach out and claim it's birthright among the stars - our 'only home' of Terra will eventually become uninhabitable due to events beyond our control. Extinction level events do happen from time to time ('killer' asterdoids', solar changes, etc) that have nothing to do with our care, or lack therof, of our world. Long-term, the only way we'll survive is through exploration and advancement, first through our solar system, and then eventually to other star systems.

As 'blech' as I find the idea of intentionally descending that far down into the ocean, with the crushing pressures, we're going to need to know how to handle such hostile high pressure environments in space - think places like Jupiter or Saturn. Likewise, the 'tourist' aspect of spaceflight, like the one that William Shatner went on, is important in making spaceflight commercially accessible to average people. Here's a really interesting article on Shatner's thoughts after making that trip - note all the redundant safety plans along the way: https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/william-shatner-space-boldly-go-excerpt-1235395113/

We learn even from the failures. In this case, hopefully, other entrepreneurs will take note that it's important to hire experienced, qualified people rather than seeking only younger, "inspirational", ones. Its also important to throughly test your equipment and have backup safety systems in place before risking peoples lives with it. Sure, the inspirational people may be more obedient and let you cut corners, but inspiration sucks when it results in being crushed at the bottom of the ocean.

lonelytauros

@Jubal interesting points and I do like what you’ve written sometimes I wonder if we were meant to inhabit let’s just say the ocean or space. we were definitely given two legs to roam the earth, but we were not given the natural born capacities I feel to inhabit other environments without the aid of artificial technology or assistance and I’m wondering if there’s a reason for that

TxTom

Excellent summations by @CuddleDuncan @JohnR1972 @Ripley54566 @Jubal have made this thread a great inspirational resource!

Stagnation leads to regression which is the death of humanity. The need to push forward, to explore, and to conquer Nature is practically written in our genetic code. We ignore it at our peril.

As for the cockroach that @lonelytauros @CharlesInWI pointed out, it's a parasite completely dependant on other species for survival. Its biology is perfectly suited for a basic, minimal existence, but with no innate capability of manipulating its environment or elevating its status. If the cockroach survives the inevitable fate of our planet, it will be by humanity's efforts, not its own.

lonelytauros

@TxTom with all due respect, a cockroach is an insect, not a parasite, and they did survive the fate of the planet without humanity’s effort when they survived whatever wiped out the dinosaurs

TxTom

@lonelytauros Lots of species survived the dinosaur extinction. That's not what I was referring to.

Edit: Yes, I know cockroaches are insects. I was stepping back and addressing a broader, macro perspective.

GrayMatter

We descended from the trees, conquered fire and pointy sticks, what more explanation do you need? What we do is inheirent in our DNA.

lonelytauros

@GrayMatter i’m not sure I understand what your point is so is it inherent for us to dive down into the ocean in a vehicle where we know there’s a possibility of death, even though survival is inherit in our DNA to look at some wreckage that would benefit us how?

craM

It's fun. He doesn't need another reason

Jubal

@lonelytauros What @GrayMatter said is directly related to my post. Human beings are unspecialized. What makes us different from every other lifeform (that we know of so far), is (1) our ability to manipulate our environment (including the use and invention of tools), (2) the ability to communicate with one another in fairly precise terms, and (3) the ability to 'time bind' (meaning that we record our past and can examine it, and can conceive of our future). These things allow us to "improvise, adapt, and overcome" anything thrown at us.

That spirit of descending from the trees into the land of dangerous predators continues to drive us to explore other dangerous places. Hopefully we never stop doing so.

lonelytauros

@Jubal chimpanzees use tools and communicate with each other but that’s not the point really. have you ever thought about the things that humans create or design are actually the things that are killing us and the planet. I understand that technology can be beneficial, but I think it’s important to look on the flipside.