@Morpheus That she was so young. And you were also, that’s heartbreaking. My son is 35 and 8000 miles away and I haven’t seen him in two years and it’s really difficult. I don’t think he’ll ever move back to the US. He doesn’t want to. His life is there now. I wonder if something happens to him or me and we never see each other again? It’s even hard to write this Sorry to get so personal. And then my daughter is too close lol
@Morpheus I'm not in your shoes yet - my kiddo is still school aged. I disagree with many of the comments on the thread in that yes, parents DO have rights. But those rights change over the years and they're always balanced out by responsibilities.
Anyways, at age 28, it's a bit much to "expect" a daily check-in from your daughter, but it's wonderful and amazing for you to WELCOME it from her if she wants daily communication. Always, always, always let her know that she can get in touch with you any day that she wants to, even if it's just to say 'hi'.
You have something very special in your parent-child relationship. I've known too many people who have bitter, toxic relationships with their parents, and there's no shortage of folks posting on these forum threads to that effect.
@Jubal Yep. I disagreed with many of the posts as well and most of them are from people who do not have children and are taking everything from an anecdotal perspective of their childhood.
I have adult kids and any parent that was involved with their child’s upbringing knows there is no right or wrong way because it is all dependent on each individual child. My son and daughter are completely different. My son needs almost daily contact and it’s usually for advice and my daughter just checks in once a week and we do FaceTime. She turns 20 in about 10 days and is over 600 miles away and my son is 24 and local. The important thing is they know they can call or text whenever they want and I will never begrudge that they do or ignore them. But none of it is a requirement. Now I do have AppleTags on my daughter’s car because she is at college away from me. This was non-negotiable and strictly for safety purposes. She knows about it and understands plus she knows I don’t spy on her and never have.
@Morpheus i haven’t read all of everyone’s responses, so I’m not sure if this sentiment has already been shared..
As someone’s 28-year-old daughter who lives on the other side of the country from my parents/family, some days I talk and text my parents all day everyday, and others I go a day or even three without communicating. It’s not a reflection of my relationship with my parents, but more so how my day/week is going. The further we get into adulthood, the more taxing it is on us -mentally, financially, physically, emotionally, etc. Sometimes after a long day at work I like to go home, walk my dog, and not speak to anyone just to rest up and be my best self the next day. Sometimes my social battery is fully charged and I’m out with friends all day and neglect to check-in with my family. Plus, there is a difference between communicating for the sake of chatting and communicating out of urgency. I know when someone is calling just to chat vs calling/texting a couple times because something is pressing. Ultimately, I think that’s the good thing about close-knit families; we communicate so much that we always know we’ll hear from one another at some point even if a couple days go by.
I'd have a hard time with expectations of daily communication with anyone. Even when I was dating a woman I was thoroughly in love with -- in love with enough that I still love her after being separated for 8 years -- we didn't talk every day. I've even had to cut off communication with people who had onerous communication expectations. I don't need that kind of unnecessary pressure. I recently had a friend move in with me and we don't talk every day even living in the same house. Some days we miss each other in the morning and he's gone to bed by the time I get home from work/skating/dancing/etc., and that can happen several days in a row.
When my dad was living with me, he expected me to call him if I was going to be a few minutes late from work or anything even slightly outside of a normal schedule, and that caused a lot of resentment in me. He'd berate me for making him worry when I didn't call, and tried to make me feel guilty for it. I hated having that constant pressure for no reason. I wasn't the one making him worry; he was the one making him worry. It was not my responsibility to report my every movement to him, just as he didn't (and I didn't want him to) report his every movement to me. It's partly a relief that he's passed away, now, because I no longer have that burden that I never asked for. He refused to negotiate anything, so I had to grow callous to his judgement for not bowing to his requirements.
I talk to my mom about once a month on average since she moved out of the country. I used to drop in every few weeks for a visit when she was nearby. I'm going to visit her for 3 weeks next month, and it's been kind of hard dealing with her constant texting trying to come up with plans. I know she's just excited, so I've not said anything about it, but sometimes I have to just ignore her texts for a day or two and do my own thing. This will be my first time visiting her since she moved away about 6 years ago, and she has never visited me.
My best friend and I get along so well largely because we share a lack of expectation around communication. We can talk every day for a while or go months without talking with no shame or guilt. We just pick up where we left off when we're both ready. It's no big deal if one of us messages the other and gets no response for days. It's wonderful to be able to enjoy communication without any associated burdens. It's like free ice cream, chill and sweet at no cost. I wish all of my relationships could be like that: 1% expectation and 99% appreciation in both directions. Everything is a gift, and nothing is a disappointment.
@TheFunCartel Someone putting a tracking device on me is non-negotiable for me, too. A hard NO requires no negotiation. When my previous employer wanted a tracking device on my vehicle that I drove for work, I quit after 10 years with them. That is entirely unreasonable to me; it shows a dangerously extreme lack of trust. Tracking someone doesn't improve their safety or honesty. If someone needs to know where I am at every moment, they're going to have to spend the time to personally stalk me.
@Mailleweaver one, you are not a woman. Two, you are not my daughter. Three, it was partially her idea. Four I prefaced that I do not spy on her. Five, it is for safety reasons and why she brought it up as a female. Six, you are single with no children so I wouldn’t be so hasty in your judgement about what a parent does with their child when we discussed it. Seven, I agree if they put a tracker on your personal vehicle that is out of bounds, but if it is a company vehicle then it is for insurance purposes.
But I will break it down for you since you decided to offer a judgement of me. I told her if she goes out of state and the wrong people know she is young and isolated from home she is a potential target. If she were abducted or anything happened to her I have nothing to offer the police except a picture and the names of her friends. I said we absolutely need to figure something out for her safety. At first she said she would think about it, until one night, coming back from a visit to the same university we stopped at a gas station and while I was pumping gas she went to use the restroom. The pumps are a ways away from the store because trucks come in there. As I was pumping gas I watched as she walked to the store and a guy came from the side of the building and said some things to her. When she came out she ran back to the car. She said the guy asked if she wanted to ride in his truck and added that she would enjoy it all the while coming closer to her. We left and this guy followed in his pick-up. I pulled off on the shoulder and the guy slowed down then passed and I got his license plate. I have no doubt if it was just her he would have stopped.
After that she said, “Get me some air tags dad”. And she has been cool with it. I even forget it is on her car half the time.
So my suggestion is stop comparing your apples to my oranges because you just don’t know.
@Mailleweaver
When my previous employer wanted a tracking device on my vehicle that I drove for work, I quit after 10 years with them.
Was this your personal vehicle or a company owned vehicle?
@TheFunCartel The vehicle my previous employer wanted to track was my property. They can track their own property all they want, but not mine. Their given reasons for tracking had nothing to do with insurance; it was supposed to make sure we were truthful in mileage reporting. Tracking vehicles would not make their drivers any more honest about what we were doing, though; it would just require any dishonest drivers come up with lies that would be consistent with tracking data. We were fixing copiers, not carrying time-sensitive cargo that belonged to someone else. All of their focus on reporting and pressuring for reports that fit expectations encouraged people to falsify reports, which skewed those expectations beyond reason. I quit because I refused to falsify my reports to look good like others were (self-admittedly) doing and I didn't appreciate being judged negatively for that by corporate management.
Your statement that putting tracking devices on your (adult) daughter's car was non-negotiable insinuated that you were forcing it on her. That misunderstanding is what prompted comment. One adult forcing something on another adult is dangerous. And doing so while saying that it's for their own good says that the one doing the forcing doesn't trust the receiver to know what's good for themselves. It's a different situation if your daughter requested the tracking (without coercion) and you freely provided it, because that's not forced. Even so, she still has to be just as careful to ensure her own safety. I say that air tags don't improve her safety because they have no effect on the likelihood of assault or abduction. Air tags won't stop a stranger in a truck from picking her up (either to abduct her or to just give her a ride) if her car breaks down on the side of the road. They only provide a possible starting point to search for the perpetrator after her safety has already been compromised. She can't rely entirely on you to keep her safe if you're not physically with her. Her safety is her responsibility, regardless of tracking data.
Apples and oranges are both fruit. Comparing them is reasonable as long as one isn't being judged for failing to be the other. A parent forcing something on their adult offspring is similar enough to the thread's discussion of expectations a parent has of their adult offspring to be worth commenting on. They both involve one adult assuming some level of authority over another. One adult has no title to rights over another adult. Once we reach the age of majority, we're each independent and free of the authority of our parents.
@Mailleweaver yea that’s odd that they wanted to track your own vehicle. I drive a company vehicle which is tracked but it’s a company vehicle. All of our company vehicles are tracked. I’m sure they can also ping my company issues work phone, iPad and laptop if they wanted to. All good, it’s their property. Your personal property though, no way.
@Morpheus I just want to say that she is a lucky girl to have you wanting to be part of her life that frequently. I wouldn't know what to do if my dad cared that much. Maybe I wouldn't feel as inadequate as I do today at 43.
The little girl inside of me needed more.
Between my brother and I, he has 5 grandchildren. FIVE. He doesn't know any of their birthdays, never comes to special events in their lives. It doesn't surprise me anymore... but it will never NOT hurt.
I'll save my compassion for people that want it. 💔
Interesting variety of feelings from actual parents. My children are in their late 30s, one will be 40 soon. That one I see and talk to nearly daily, she’s the mom of my grandson and I’m very involved in their lives, she is too dependent on me and makes me want to get away. To the point that I need a break, feeling overwhelmed. But she isn’t typical. I’ve always been extremely independent. My parents were also. When I was 23, just after college, I took off ALONE to backpack around Europe for 6 months. No internet, emails and barely able to communicate. 2 phone calls and some letters. during the 6 months. I’m sure my mom was so worried but she honored my desire for freedom. She didn’t make me feel guilty. She wasn’t needy, she didn’t cry for me to come home. It was an amazing experience and I wouldn’t trade it for anything. It really made me who I am now, those experiences at only 23! Now my son has lived 8000 miles away for 11 years. We talk every couple of weeks. He’s just like me. Very independent and needs space. I only say all this as a reminder that each of us has different needs from our families. Too many here think their own way is the only way. That’s why we have this forum to express different experiences and opinions. Why does it upset others so much when someone doesn’t agree with them?
@Morpheus my mother was 53, I was 26. Her mother also died at 53 when she was 28. Sometimes it feels a bit like we have an expiration date stamped upon our foreheads, no?
@carrieanne because everyone thinks they’re right, but when it comes to parenting and trying to tell someone advice it’s often taken as critical even if the intent is not malicious. We should always remember what works for you might not work for someone else. That’s why people are unique and we’re not always so alike how people tend to believe. We grow from understanding differences and trying to adapt them into our lives if possible.
@lonelytauros agreed 💯 I hope I communicated by example exactly what you’re saying. Some of us actually need a break from our kids lol Ive thought about running away many times. Sitting alone on a mountaintop in complete nothingness. Not everyone wants to be around their kids all that much and some kids might feel the same about their parents. I do understand the worrying though, it can be paralyzing.
most of them are from people who do not have children and are taking everything from an anecdotal perspective of their childhood.
@TheFunCartel rather I think most of us have been speaking of our experiences as adult children, not just from childhood. And unless the parent wants to completely disregard the wishes of their child and just satisfy their own concerns, the perspective of the adult child is equally important here. And @Morpheus did in fact ask for people who do not live with their parents to chime in. You can disagree with our positions all you like, but please don't invalidate us participating as if the child's experience in a parent-child dynamic is somehow less important.
@Mailleweaver I get where the misunderstanding happened between you and @TheFunCartel . I too read it as one person forcing their will upon another without their consent or under coercion. The further explanation makes more sense given what I know of FunCartel from interacting with him for some time now, so I think it comes down perhaps to word choice in his original comment.
I too struggle with communication demands, especially if they are unvoiced and are silent expectations. At least if people state "I need you to call me x times a week" or "I need you to respond within x amount of time", I know what's expected of me. But often people don't communicate those expectations and just get upset when I don't respond quickly or often enough. With ADHD I can often be Out Of Sight Out Of Mind, so unless I set multiple reminders I'll forget to reply to people in a "timely" manner. With people expecting daily communication, this just leads to constant disappointment, guilt, and shame, and eventual breakdown of the relationship so I too tend to choose friends who are more flexible with their communication needs.
Judging by your communication style and profile, I believe our brains work fairly similarly, so at least know you are seen and understood
@cuddlefaery I know @morpheus asked for those without children’s input and I definitely was not referring to your posts. Nor am I invalidating any of the others who are not parents who opined on the subject BUT the truth remains that if you are not a parent you do not have the whole picture because some of the points made as single adult children are the same thoughts I had before I was a parent but when you become a parent some of those assertions become VERY gray. And some are valid too. But a dude questioning how I address the safety of my daughter when she was an active participant and judging me by comparing his boss tracking his car as a single male is beyond the pale.
Thank you, @cuddlefaery and @carrieanne. There's also a big difference between experience/opinion, and researched healthy relationship dynamics, as well.
I would recommend to anyone that they read up on Attachment Styles, so they can determine theirs, and work toward Secure Attachment, whether it be with their child, parent, significant other, or friends.
Here is a general breakdown...
Here is how parental style affects children as adults...
~ Sunset Snuggles
🦄 Enthusiast 🏞 Travel Fiend 🐘 Animal Lover
@SunsetSnuggles yeah. I probably should have separated out what I shared between personal experience, things learned in therapy, and professional learning about developmental psychology and family dynamics as an educator - but it gets very wibbly wobbly and there's a lot of cross over eventually. 🤷🏻♀️
One of the things that people often miss with attachment styles is the fact that pretty much everyone has a mix of multiple styles depending on the relationship. You can be anxiously attached to one parent, avoidant to another, reactive to a friend, etc. Further, the severity/intensity of the presentation can vary from relationship to relationship, person to person, change over time, and even the entire attachment style change. Attachment styles are not static labels or traits, but rather just descriptors that describe multiple spectrums of behavior.
@Mailleweaver I said, if you read carefully, that if it was your personal vehicle it is out of bounds. The insurance part was if it was a company vehicle. And when I say non-negotiable on my daughter—it was non-negotiable in the sense that there has to be someway to know where she is for safety reasons. How that looks was up to her. I don’t think you are aware of the level of violence and sexual assaults on females there are on college campuses when you say the stuff you said. My daughter and roommate go to a gym off campus because there are way too many creepers who make comments, try and insinuate themselves into a work out, or follow them back to the dorms. The university won’t do anything about it unless a crime really happens. Word of advice—never question a parent about how they strive to ensure the safety of their child unless you really want to get an earful or worse. That is out of bounds dude. Don’t care how abusive your boss is, it is not the same and quite frankly I would be confrontational in real life if you said that to me. Unless the child is being abused, starved or beaten, your best option is to STFU. You can offer your opinion on the thread topic, but you singled my situation out and that becomes very personal.
Apples and oranges are both fruit. Comparing them is reasonable as long as one isn't being judged for failing to be the other.
Apples and oranges are both fruits but DIFFERENT kinds of fruits. Men and women are both human but DIFFERENT types of humans. Workplace drama that you don’t like is DIFFERENT than parental decisions. And finally, nothing was forced on my daughter. Seems you fail to grasp that. So drop it. I don’t really care if you like it or not. You need to take a step back. I think you wouldn’t like it if someone started attacking all your personal life choices. And whether you realize it or not, that’s what you did.
@cuddlefaery For sure. I have completely different ones with my mom vs. my boyfriend vs. my brother vs. various friends. It's very insightful.
@TheFunCartel I don't believe @Mailleweaver is attacking you, so you may wish to take a breather. It reads more like he is reading what you wrote quite literally and is speaking very directly...like I do. Remember how we used to butt heads?
It reads to me like @Mailleweaver wasn't trying to claim his experience with his boss is the same as the safety of your daughter. He was making an analogy of intrusion of one adult trying to control another through tracking, because he thought that was what you had said you were doing (as did I originally).
He also is speaking VERY literally about safety.... Tracking is in fact not preventative safety, but a means for reactive recovery after safety has already been compromised. He was merely stating that fact and how the preventative safety is on your daughter, which it is - the same way all of us women have to take steps all the time to try to prevent dangerous situations before they happen.
Perhaps take a break or scroll on by for a bit, because I don't believe Maille was intending to trigger you like this.
@cuddlefaery Agree to disagree and my daughter does do preventative safety but here is where we part ways on this. If my child disappears I at least know where her car is. I NEVER said the Apple tags were preventative, but if it ever turns into a missing person case or a stolen car case I can offer something to the authorities. Parents do understand that and we had a case of that at my daughter’s high school her senior year when one of her classmates was murdered and missing. The car was tagged and it led to an arrest and the eventual discovery of her body two miles away. It probably saved another girl from the same fate…perhaps my daughter because the guy had some screenshots of other girls.
So you guys can talk about your preventative vs reactive as long as you don’t address my situation specifically. Making excuses for how he reads things dismisses the fact that I care only about my daughter and not how he processes things. And that is the disconnect—you guys are talking logic and philosophy while as a parent I am talking about a deep abiding love for a child while providing her freedom of choice. It is a balancing act you do not understand until you are a parent. It is easy to point out the shortcomings of parents and it is also easy to see things in hindsight, but that is not parenting. Parenting is hard and involves an array of dynamics, the ability to say you are sorry, the ability to stick to your guns at times when they seem to hate you for it, and the ability to let them do things that perhaps you don’t approve of. That is only a few things on a very long list. As for my daughter and I we discuss things, she is independent, she is an overachieving student, she has tons of friends and she is happy. She chose the tags. But equivocating a workplace situation to my situation is out of bounds. and no matter how you rationalize it, that is what he did. This we will butt heads over.
I didn’t think he was attacking me but he was attacking my actions. That is the bone of contention and despite me providing more details he still persisted. Yet you make excuses for him and tell me basically to take it and not say anything else. No this is my daughter and how we handle things and he is an interweb stranger who thinks he knows better than the parent who has spent 19 years with her and has a wonderful relationship with her. Nope, not having it. He even misinterpreted the insurance comment I made about company cars and applied it to his personal card. He is more concerned about being right rather than boundaries. And there are boundaries between a parent-child and strangers and he overstepped.
@TheFunCartel yes, we will have to agree to disagree, because what you read as him "persisting" and being "more concerned about being right", I read as him providing further explanation to back up his position - just as you did. I suggested that you take a break because you are reading his words through a filter of your emotional reaction rather than taking them at face value, and naw you are doing the same with what I said. With some perspective of distance, you would be able to see the misunderstanding that is going on, but right now you are in the heat of it.
But yes, for the sake of not further derailing this thread, let's agree to disagree. My inbox is open.
Edit to add: one note - I don't know @Mailleweaver from Jack, have never interacted with him prior to today (to the best of my knowledge)...so perhaps ask yourself WHY I'm defending him (or making excuses for him, as you put it). I have no skin in this game, so why would I speak up?
@cuddlefaery Maybe ask yourself why I have skin in the game as you put it is a better question. But as I inboxed you I know why you are defending him but it is still a bit tone deaf.
Would it change anyone’s opinion if I told you that my daughter is epileptic. She has it very under control, has a seizure maybe once a year but can’t drive and has to take either Uber or public transportation everywhere she goes?
@Morpheus I feel like you buried the lede on that one. Lolol FWIW, I have my opinions on communication with family, but it seems like you and your daughter have a great relationship.
@Morpheus I don’t think that makes too much of a difference what matters is and what’s admirable is that you and the other parents on this site care about your children and are protective over them everyone’s parenting style might differ a little bit but y’all love your children and that’s what matters
@Morpheus That does shed more light on why you want to hear from her daily. I have compassion for that, for sure.
I would still stand by my previous statement and say that her live-in boyfriend is the one who is top on the "need to know" list. If she doesn't come home, he'll know; if she gets into an accident, is he not her emergency contact? He's her daily person, now. If something happens to her, he'll find out very quickly and he will contact you, if she cannot.
I truly believe that if you offered her the choice to contact you at her whim rather than yours, it would only improve your already great relationship.