The devils are everywhere!
I love both the characters named. I often appreciated hogboblin's dark sarcasm, imagery, wit and gallows humor and I'm sad they left the site. They made me laugh out loud often. There were more folks than these two who occasionally piled on during one of the sarcasm feeding frenzies. FunCartel has shared a lot of useful stuff and supported many of us in varied ways. It's less spicy without them around though I do empathize with those who got bonked -- I got bonked once and it took me some days to want to share much again after that, and I'm a forum animal. So I heartily welcome them back (though I think our hogboblin is gone gone gone) and say, game on! Let's see if we can be funny AND kind, together, and help each other know when we're crossing a line without attacking back.
On principle, I am against bashing people in their absence, however, after so many posts, I thought their identities needed to be known if any productive discussion was to follow.
@2dogmom It is unfortunate that some people take pleasure in harming others. I just think, maybe they need love, or maybe they are phychopathic. They may be seeking online altercations with others to satisfy their need for sensation seeking via intense arguments.
In any case, the best way to deal with this type of behavior is to ignore it. Avoid responding, it’s not worth your time or energy. If you want to do something, flag and report offensive posts and let the moderators handle it. As is often said, “Don’t feed the trolls”.
@pmvines and @Groucho I don't think names needed to be used because my intent was to highlight the BEHAVIOR, not the person. Also, my OP was an example of the recent situation, however, as @cuddlerforu24 noted, there have been others in the past and there will likely be more in the future. The bigger takeaway here is that NO ONE who ridicules for sport should be tolerated.
The last month the forum content and contributions have been stellar and I'd love to see the spirit and enthusiasm continue. Yes, @Sideon. Me too boo! As also noted by @cuddlerforu24, bad behavior can derail good discussions and can cause them to be shut down.
@PeopleLikeUs their gender is irrelevant. Again, as noted by @cuddlerforu24, both genders have been instigators.
@littermate I don't like spice. It gives me heartburn. I welcome anyone who is funny and kind, as well, but one does not need to sacrifice one for the sake of the other. Again, I am not sad to see anyone go who gets their jollies going after well-meaning folks trying to reach out with behavior that is far less than welcoming or understanding IMO.
@MrPaul I agree in ignoring people... to a point. But when the behavior continues day after day after day, at some point someone has to stand up and say nope, not acceptable.
Well said, @2dogmom . Thanks for reminding us that you're differentiating behaviors from the perpetrators. Love the spice analogy, and I'd add to it that if folks are going to be mean to be mean, then perhaps they can stay out of the kitchen. I break bread with those who want to connect and honor individual perspectives, not those who are going to mock the cook, the meal, and the various spices du jour.
Here's hoping for more meals (where spice levels may vary) and breaking bread together.
@Sideon 🧂🧂🥰🥰❤️❤️
Ignoring bullying is an excellent textbook solution, and is something we should always strive for, but it is not always realistic, Some days are just harsh, here in my personal life. I like to be able to come here, a platonic cuddling community for encouragement and support instead of seeing all of the harassment and negative crap. Platonic cuddling is such a precious gift, but the negativity on this site can make you question it at times.
I think “bullies” are put into our paths to test our resilience. They’re everywhere and if you see them as opportunities to be benevolent and to take the high road you’ll feel better. Just like our mothers said, “ignore them, they’ll go away if you don’t react. They’re just trying to get a rise out of you.
To bully or not to bully, that is the question. Is it nobler in the mind to sling the arrows of outrageous wit, or to take arms against a sea of negative characters and, by opposing, encourage them?
Obviously I stand on the side of the bullies.
...To quote a certain Yu Wo: "Everyone, hitting me is enough, don’t throw things!"
Perhaps Star Wars can tell us something.
I think most people like to feel they make a difference to other members of the human race, else their life is meaningless ; which is one reason why solitary confinement is so unpleasant. The Dark Side of making a difference, is much easier.
The movie industry says that a comedy is much harder to make than a horror movie. Being unkind is just lazy ; easier to put a stone through someone's window, than to help them fit a new pane of glass.
@geoff1000: Do people really care that much about making a difference in the lives of others? That's kind of touching. I suppose I sort of figured folks online said the things they said because it made them feel good to say them—and that they'd say them even if no one listened or cared.
More to my earlier point, though: who seriously asks "What do you think about bullying?" as though they expect someone to pop up with their hand raised going "Ooooh, I love it!"
It's not really a question. It's a simple "I think FunCartel and Hogboblin were bullies and I'm glad they're gone! You all agree with me, right? Even if you don't agree with me, don't be mean about it! They were sarcastic and hijacked threads and thought they were witty and they hurt people emotionally. That's what I think, and quite a few members agree with me—I supported them when those two bullies scared them off the forums!
"Things are much nicer now those two are gone, don't you think? Hooray for them not being here anymore, and if they come back we'll all gang up on them, right? Yes, of course we will, because things are so much pleasanter as they are now! Thank you, everyone!"
But I thought it was funny that the thread title was framed as such an obviously rhetorical question, so.
@DarrenWalker you're not entirely wrong but any defense suggesting your "pet" was witty is like saying the Taco Bell $5 box was sent from heaven or created by Wolfgang Puck. Puck no.
Sssh. Quiet. Can you hear it? Beneath the puerile cooing and gleeful sputtering, one can catch the sound of flesh on flesh; sharp smacks and meaty thuds.
There’s a shuffling and a sloshing as numerous feet displace a viscous liquid. Hisses, grunts, cries—and then a chant:
“This is good. We did good. We are good.”
It’s the cult of grinning martyrs. They’ve assembled, and they don’t care much for dissent.
@DarrenWalker points read and taken. In turn, I've changed my rhetorical question (yes, I did realize it was one) to fully crib from Shakespeare.
Again, while I was honest that I was not a fan of the two people you mention, I am more concerned about the BEHAVIOR which, again being an online forum, will sadly continue to probably be present with or without them.
And I fully did not expect everyone to agree with me--and they haven't (see @pmvines and @littermate)--but, yes, I do appreciate that they were respectful about their differences of opinion. I have zero problems with respectful disagreement and zingy sarcasm. I didn't like reading what you wrote, but I welcomed your comments because, IMO, your points had some validity and were not cruel.
And, I do not advocate "ganging up" on anyone, however, I do believe if the discourse becomes pointedly personal and mean spirited, it's time to call people on that behavior not being acceptable.
At the end of the day, however, it is truly up to the majority here to decide what they wish the "culture" of the forum to be. That was the ultimate intent of my post: What do you want Cuddle Comfort's culture to reflect about the people here?
@Groucho Please don't bully Taco Bell : )
@BashfulLoner Agree with that on every count!
@Groucho bahaha... good analogy. Though I do love me some Taco Bell.
@exsanguinate LOL. I feel you probably are taking a dig but I don't mind wearing the mantle of martyr. Though the term does have some negative connotations, the true meaning is someone who "sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle." So, yeah, I will stand by my principles stated on this thread and if that makes me a martyr in some people's eyes, well, ok.
LOL I didn't even notice those two were no longer around. Guess I had been skipping over them for some time.
@Groucho: Dear me, was I defending anyone? Didn't mean to. Just thought the thinly veiled self-congratulation (and other-bashing) was funny.
@2dogmom: ...The title's less funny without the "Where do you stand?" Oh well.
What do I want Cuddle Comfort's culture to reflect about the people here? I want it to reflect whatever's truly there to be reflected. I want kindness and cruelty both, so that no one thinks everyone on this site is some sort of saint.
I want the nastier people to feel comfortable expressing their darkness on the forum, so folks who're thinking about cuddling with them will know what they're getting into. I want the nicer people to feel comfortable expressing their lightness on the forum, too—so people who're thinking about cuddling with them will also know what they're getting into. Returning to the kitchen analogy: if you don't like spice that's fine, but don't try to throw out all the habanero!
Sure, it burns. Does that mean it's unacceptable? Does it mean you should "call people on" using it?
"I don't know what will happen when those chefs are allowed to return to cooking," you might say, "but I am asking those of you who have enjoyed the things this kitchen's turned out in the past month or so to continue to support a non-spicy, sort of bland, occasionally sugar-sweet kitchen experience and, if anyone tries to cook something we don't approve of, to stand on the side of not allowing a few people to change the output."
Sometimes those two put more hot peppers in than even I can handle, yes—but I wouldn't "basically equate them to bullies," nor say that I feel their comments were often "at best baiting and at worst mean-spirited." Did they really "have to 'hijack' almost every post"? Was their snark really "sarcastic barbs thinly disguised as 'wit'"?
Don't get me wrong: I love it when someone as self-proclaimedly peace-loving as you attacks folks this way!
But why pretend it wasn't attack, self-congratulation, and a call to arms against metaphorical chefs putting in what you think are too many metaphorical hot peppers?
edited to fix a name
@DarrenWalker One person's attack is another's self defense.
@Groucho: And a good offense is the best defense!
...Wait, what were we talking about? Oh, right: whether calling people "bullies whose supposedly witty comments are just thinly veiled, cruel sarcasm"—after they're accountless and can no longer defend themselves from the name-calling, no less—counts as an attack, or as self-defense.
Whatever, Karen
There! See how much fun it is to play with the young folks, Mabel?
A witty bitty, I am
@DarrenWalker to answer your questions... yes and yes. IN MY OPINION. And I'm pretty sure they didn't get a timeout for being choir boys. I guess my question back to you, and to run with your analogy, is how long do you tolerate the pain of the burn before you do something about it?
I suppose I also find it interesting when the person who is the perpetrator so quickly cries "attack" when someone stands up to them. That's basically gaslighting. And I don't remember ever saying I was peace-loving. I do try to be kind. There is a difference.
PS, my name is 2DogMom
@2dogmom: Aaagh, see what happens when you type too fast? Ugh. Thanks for pointing that out! I'll go fix it.
I'm pretty sure they didn't get a timeout for being choir boys.
Heheheh. That metaphor never ceases to amuse, 'cause choir boys can be a passel of problems. It's as good as "little birdies in their nest agree." But no, the temporary forum bans those two picked up from time to time were due to putting in more spice than the mods liked. How long will I put up with the pain of a "sick burn" before doing something about it? Not long! I go straight for the metaphorical bread of objective perspective pretty fast.
I suppose I also find it interesting when the person who is the perpetrator so quickly cries "attack" when someone stands up to them.
But FunCartel and Hogboblin can't cry anything. They left.
I don't remember ever saying I was peace-loving.
Oh. So you're not peace-loving? And when you said there'd been a little more "peaceful" feeling here in the forums for the past month or so, and asked those of us who've enjoyed the atmosphere the past month+ to "continue to support an open, inclusive, positive forum experience," you weren't implying that you loved peace and wanted it to continue?
Silly me.
At the root of the disagreement here is our understanding of what kind of a "place" the forum is. Some folks see the forum as akin to the common areas of a condo complex. Participants "own" their own units (profiles) and own the common area (forum) collectively. In this view, the group should reach a consensus on the kind of behaviors that will or will not be tolerated from others occupying the common areas.
Others see the forum as sort of a house party hosted on Mark's virtual patio. Everyone's invited, but none of the guests have an ownership stake or a role in the decision-making. It's up to the property owner and his security team to police the place. In this view, those who don't like the enforcement standards (or the speed or consistency with which they are applied) are free to stay in spite of their discomfort/disapproval, or find another party. And they are of course free to directly engage with someone they feel treated them poorly. But trying to recruit or organize other party guests to call out subjectively bad behavior seems inappropriate to those who take this view of the place.
I lean more toward the second point of view.
If I feel people have violated forum rules, I can flag their posts and let the mods make the call. But I don't see a need for us to devise any group strategy/group response beyond that. The "when so-and-so returns, let's all do THIS" aspect of it [see the next to last paragraph on the original post at top of thread] doesn't quite feel right to me.
That... does go right to the heart of it. Well put, @quietman775. I hadn't understood the "condo complex" point of view at all. Thank you.
Just for everyone’s information, when i see a long post if it’s not @DarrenWalker i only skim through. If i see something interesting I’ll go back, but i seem to learn from the previously mentioned.
My thing is this . When multiple people start to gain up on a user, present or past, and go on about how bad they are and how much better things are without them here, it is actually in and of itself bullying behavior.