@AlfredNeuman Transmission of both is reduced substantially. The flu is less contagious than SARS-CoV-2 to begin with, so we would expect the impact on the flu to be more pronounced.
Or to look at it another way: In the past month, I've been in close proximity to fewer than 1% of the number of people I was over the same time period last year. Should it come as any surprise that I've had about 1% of the chance of catching the flu?
What's the alternative explanation? A massive conspiracy of medical professionals to falsify test results and misdiagnose 99% of flu infections as covid?
@mtp Harder to dismiss an agenda if we stick to facts instead of labeling disagreement as conspiracies.
I think flu being less infectious makes the impact LESS pronounced.
There doesn't need to be a large conspiracy.
Just stop seeing patients at medical offices or ER, which stops all testing for Flu.
Put government in charge of data. Conflate deaths with covid and those of covid.
Got my first dose 12/29 and go back for my second 1/26.
I only experienced arm pain from the first dose
One point, because it's late for me and I'm tired.
@AlfredNeuman says, "I think flu being less infectious makes the impact [of Covid precautions] LESS pronounced."
Think of flu as a bunch of enemies armed with a sticks. You and the people in your town are used to defending against sticks. You get bruised sometimes, maybe get an arm or leg broken, some people die—but overall it's not too bad.
Now imagine a bunch of enemies armed with swords turns up.
If you all put on plate armor as a precaution against the swords, how big of an impact does this have on the attacks of the enemies armed with sticks?
@DarrenWalker well we need some specifics to determine that, for one thing what kind of swords? Plate is great for longsword and other "slashing" blades as the thin sharp edges don't do much good now rapiers and thrusting blades are good for getting into the joints but they're smallish targets if you actually know how to use plate to it's best advantage, a blunt edged broad sword and its silk however are nightmares for you not as bad as axes or better yet mauls or picks but still... also define stick are we talking a yew stave or something like an iron banded oak staff? Because one is next to useless against you barring head shots where as the other can really ruin your whole day. Also what kind of plate armor? Light, half, field, full? It makes a massive difference in what will be your biggest problem defending against.
@NightShift39: Well, the sticks have HA and NA surface proteins—so they can do decent damage to an unprotected person but have a whole lot of trouble making it through stiffer precautions—and the swords have spike proteins, so they find it really easy to slide right into an unprotected person's body, but have more trouble when precautions are taken.
Edit: This is a really broad metaphor, but basically....
If you've got two things that attack (are transmitted) the same ways—whether that's via hitting or by way of touching and getting breathed on—a barrier that keeps out the stronger thing (by stopping people from getting breathed on too much, say) is gonna be really good at keeping out the weaker thing. Because they're both transmitted the same ways, it's just that one is more powerfully infectious than the other.
At the very least, precautions that work against the strong thing aren't going to have less of an impact on the weaker thing.
@AlfredNeuman you clearly didn’t read the article closely enough the organization that favors victims 70% of the time is not covering the covid 19 vaccine.
I trust the science and as a high risk person will be taking the vaccine ASAP
Just curious ... honest question for anyone to answer, if you’re really worried & concerned about the virus (asking respectfully) & you take the vaccine as well as your loved ones , why does it (or would it) matter if someone else doesn’t take it? Aren’t you & your loved ones protected?
Edit: & those outside of your loved ones take it as well
@introvme - It needs to be a collective effort. Our Healthcare workers needs a break from all this.
Think of flu as a bunch of enemies armed with a sticks. You and the people in your town are used to defending against sticks. You get bruised sometimes, maybe get an arm or leg broken, some people die—but overall it's not too bad. Now imagine a bunch of enemies armed with swords turns up. If you all put on plate armor as a precaution against the swords, how big of an impact does this have on the attacks of the enemies armed with sticks?
I don't have anything to contribute to the overarching discussion but I wanted to say that I enjoyed this imagery, @DarrenWalker .
@Mike403 that’s a good argument , it really is... but by reading your comment one would think or assume that right now hospitals are over capacity & that it looks like the apocalypse is taking place ... I just deleted a lot because I don’t want to say too much, but I’m sure there are people here who work in hospitals & will tell you that the long lines the media showed isn’t the case / that if anything visitors & family members aren’t allowed (which has made things soo much easier) this is not to dispute the validity of the virus , this is to say that it is the opposite, healthcare workers finally cought a break from the overwhelming family/visitor visitations. I just hope that people are honest if they happen to work in a hospital setting.
Vaccine protection is not absolute. If I am vaccinated, my risk of infection is reduced, but some risk remains. That risk can be further reduced if the likelihood of the people around me being infected can be reduced. The odds of people around me being infected can be reduced if the risk can be reduced for the people around them, and so on.
We need to collectively reduce those odds for everyone until the virus is unable to find new hosts to infect, and dies out. That's how vaccines work: by exponential decay.
I think we can find arguments for and against ... here is an article of a doctor who is against .....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/12/06/us/politics/anti-vax-scientist-senate-hearing.amp.html
One of the reasons I don’t want to take it is because the goal of the vaccines is to allow your body to produce antibodies against covid, ive already done so .... Naturally, but I encourage those who want to take it plz do but just don’t shame those who don’t want it, the fact that these pharma companies have been granted immunity from being liable raises real concerns.
@DarrenWalker that's a great metaphor!
@introvme two things. Firstly, the medical system in the UK is fully stretched. There are no critical care beds free. People are being moved 200 miles for treatment.
Secondly, it has slowly become clear to me in reading your posts that you don't fully appreciate how vaccines, or rather vaccination, works. You never responded to my velocity post, and I thought you would, which makes me think that perhaps you haven't seen it.
@introvme if everybody gets sick at once, the hospitals have to close and the fatality rate is horrific because nobody gets treatment. If everybody gets sick over a period of a couple of years, the hospitals are stretched but they can cope, everybody gets treatment and a large number of lives are saved. What matters is the velocity with which the virus progresses through the population. The slower the rate, the fewer people die. Washing your hands, wearing a mask, and social distancing significantly slow the virus's progression. A vaccine taken by everybody slows the progression rate to such an extent that the hospitals can come out of emergency mode and start treating people in the ordinary way. More lives saved. Whether the vaccine's effectiveness is 95%, 85% or 75% doesn't matter that much. It's more important that as many people as possible are protected by it. MaullySterling has had very bad reactions to vaccines in the past, so whether or not she should take it is a finely balanced medical question. If people in her situation don't take it, it doesn't really matter for the rest of us because there are relatively few such people in the population.
@introvme if everybody gets sick at once, the hospitals have to close and the fatality rate is horrific because nobody gets treatment.
If everybody gets sick over a period of a couple of years, the hospitals are stretched but they can cope, everybody gets treatment and a large number of lives are saved.
What matters is the velocity with which the virus progresses through the population. The slower the rate, the fewer people die.
Washing your hands, wearing a mask, and social distancing significantly slow the virus's progression. A vaccine taken by everybody slows the progression rate to such an extent that the hospitals can come out of emergency mode and start treating people in the ordinary way. More lives saved. Whether the vaccine's effectiveness is 95%, 85% or 75% doesn't matter that much. It's more important that as many people as possible are protected by it.
MaullySterling has had very bad reactions to vaccines in the past, so whether or not she should take it is a finely balanced medical question. If people in her situation don't take it, it doesn't really matter for the rest of us because there are relatively few such people in the population.
Read that twice and let it sink in for a bit.
@CuddleDuncan you’re right I didn’t read your original post (my apologies) but I read it once now & it sinked in the 1st time ... I completely get your position & it makes sense, but I still don’t want to take it (my apologies again) ... I really hope herd immunity is reached without me... the percentage of the population that needs to be immune for herd immunity is not yet known, & it also isn’t known if reaching immunity naturally has lasting immunity effect (same as the vaccination “, they don’t know if we would be required to continue taking the vaccines) .... therefore since ive already developed antibodies , I’m therefore in the same predicament as someone who has taken the vaccine & has developed antibodies ...
@introvme there is a lot we don't know. Thanks for reading that. I've lost track - have you had covid?
@CuddleDuncan i did sometime in spring of last year , & no problem didn’t want you to think I purposely didn’t read it.
So you may have some residual protection. Down to the bottom of the vaccination list you go!
It never occurred to me that you had not read it deliberatly, or not replied deliberately, but thank you.
Lol 😅😂 plz I rather someone else to take it by all means keep me at the very last 🤪
There's already a thread on this.
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/forum/discussion/9839/has-anyone-gotten-the-covid-19-vaccine
Both threads now merged. [-Sid]
I got my second vaccine last Monday! zero problems at all. (And I’ve still not grown a tail)
Did you get it from pfizer or moderna @cuddleanurse ?
I got mine a week ago Friday...will get the follow up in about 20 days.
@introvme I got the Pfizer vaccine. I’m now counting down my 14 days until I am fully immunized and will have little chance of getting it.
Wow! This is a touchy subject on the forum! I work in primary care and we have had SO many patients who have had covid recently. The first burst didn’t affect us much here in Tennessee but this time over the last couple of months - it’s a nightmare. We have healthy young patients who have died from covid and older patients with tons of health problems have very few symptoms. To me, it’s frightening from where I sit right now. Yes, it is everyone’s decision as to whether or not we get the vaccine - but remember you may have very few symptoms - but you can still spread it to people who could die. And the survival rate is better from covid now that doctors have learned more about the virus: but we have patients who have developed a blood clot from covid and had a stroke or heart attack; and yes they lived- but they have permanent damage and lifelong major health problems from that. Plus pulling an oxygen tank around behind you for months - or for the rest of your life isn’t that fun. That’s all for my soapbox for today
@cuddleanurse Thank you for the report from the front lines and i fully support your position and everything you said.
Thank you @cuddleanurse for the detail info ... also may I ask, do you think it would be necessary for me to take it if I’ve already had covid & developed the antibodies against it? Also, is there a preference between Pfizer & Moderna , I know they are both similar in that they both require 2 shots , but the Pfizer one requires more refrigeration than the moderna one ... Also, there’s a new candidate soon to hit market which is the Johnson & Johnson one & it’ll be only a single shot, (any feedback is greatly appreciated)
@introvme They are pretty sure now that the antibodies from having Covid only protect you for the very short term, not long term.
Thank you @FunCartel