How are "Love Languages" appropriate for CC?

UCpaaHVg6u0

I see occasional mention of "love languages", which I don't really know about, but it sounded positive and life-affirming so I wikied it. The first thing it mentioned was that these skills/capacities are intended for romantically bonded couples. That's fine for that realm, but here it sounds risky. Being fuzzy about what platonic cuddling is, is probably not good for this place. On the other hand, we could certainly borrow things that are important in romantic relationships of they don't compromise the safety and platonic ideals of cuddlers.

Could anybody weigh in on this? Could we perhaps have some new languages for cuddlers?

CuddleDuncan

We could definitely start talking about 'cuddle language' as a companion to 'love language', I think that's a great idea.

Love languages are commonly discussed in the context of romantic relationships but in fact they apply to all relationships. Really, they just categorise people as to how they feel appreciated or loved. In other words, what's the best way to say something like thank you, or I appreciate you, or I care about you, to somebody? Some folks would like a present, others just for you to say it properly, some a long hug, some a thoughtful reciprocal act, and others for you just to make a point of hanging out together.

I propose that the four cuddle languages are:

Peacefulness (e.g. silence)
Movement (e.g. stroking)
Communication (e.g. listening)
Sharing (e.g. watching a film)

PS - The first two or three times I came across love languages it was in the context of cuddling.

The 5 Love Languages written by Gary Chapman had the original intent for helping married couples better communicate and feel loved by one another. However, he has since written and expanded on the concept of love languages to include parents and their kids, family, friends, etc. The basic concept is how you best and most naturally express and feel love (that love being between you and anyone; friends, family, pets, kids, teachers you had growing up, coworkers, random strangers, etc. not just romantic)

It comes up here at cc a lot because physical touch is one of the love languages, the others being; acts of service, words of affirmation, quality time, and gift giving. I think many of us on here are touch deprived and may have touch as our primary way of feeling loved, and therefore feeling unloved/unlovable.

Aren't we all just looking for love in some form of another?

I hope this helps you better understand/answer your question.

I personally believe there are more than 5. Like teasing is most definitely a love language my dad "speaks".

CuddleDuncan

Yes we mustn't forget that love languages aren't real, they're just a made-up categorisation system which is sometimes useful.

@CuddleDuncan Isn't all language essentially sounds we have categorized into a system to be a useful and easier way to communicate? 🤔 Don't mind me and my mussing.

JasonCuddles

Love languages are useful well beyond romantic interests. They can be used to better communicate with people, know what areas are sensitive, etc. In the end they're pretty broad and not exact, but if you know how someone's love languages rank you can very quickly know some useful things in how to relate to them.

I agree with @JasonCuddles . Love languages can be used when parenting, as a teacher, as a friend, as a boss. To know how the people around you feel best appreciated and valued is a fantastic skill.
I can speak the wrong language all day to someone and they will barely hear it. For example I love to encourage and affirm through praise. I love to hear it and therefore I naturally speak it. But my partner can’t hear any praise unless he is touched. So I cuddle him and then he can receive love.

I think this translates a bit to cuddling in another way in that I often touch my cuddle partner in the way I like to be touched. Not yet knowing if they like a scalp rub or a hand rub or to be little half spoon and feel embraced and nurtured. Those are discoveries for us to make together. Some of the most memorable parts of cuddling are discovering what myself and my cuddle buddy like accidentally along the way.

CuddleDuncan

@Ennea2HugU oh yes of course. But some of these sounds describe things that are real, and some things that humans have made up. 'Real' is not the right word, now you come to mention it: just because something has been made up that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't important.

Here's an example. The Sun is real: it has an existence independent of human thought. On the other hand chemistry isn't real, in my sense - it's made up. The interactions of the valence electrons of atoms are real, all of the science is real. But 'chemistry' is just a fairly arbitrary group of particular interactions, selected purely for human convenience. You could just as easily have four main sciences at school rather than the conventional three (chemistry, physics and biology), or two, or five, or stick to three but draw the divisions in different places.

Babichev

Food is one of my love languages that is not on the official list.

I think it might be useful in any kind of f relationship, including cuddling. For instance, I’m definitely a word person to others who communicate well with the written word definitely have an advantage with me here. Those who don’t - if they aren’t willing to write something about themselves in their profile and get to know me just a little online before we meet will be less likely to get a first meeting.

sillysassy

What a FANTASTIC conversation @UCpaaHVg6u0 thank you so much for starting it!!!! 😊
I agree with what was said earlier about this idea of "languages" we humans "speak" to comfort, nurture, validate, show gratitude and appreciation with each other.... when the word LOVE is used we tend to get a little freaked out but I think we all have different ways of showing kindness and FEELING kindness from others.

I am glad for all those chiming in about the beauty of this communication model as it relates to friends and family JUST AS MUCH as it does in romantic connections.

One way that it was explained is this... We all have gas tanks that need to be filled in order to function in our best capacity. Some vehicles need ethane, others need diesel, unleaded, leaded, some mixed with oil. We all have a natural proclivity toward one or the other that makes us feel the most "filled up" emotionally.

like @Ennea2HugU mentioned in Chapman depiction of this, out of the five most common languages we have a few that we need to feel connected. Maybe we could even replace love with CONNECTION.... hmmmm

I think many of us on here are touch deprived and may have touch as our primary way of feeling loved/CONNECTED, Aren't we all just looking for love/CONNECTION in some form of another?

Here's a real life example.... My kids trying to find a way to show their appreciation and affection for me. They buy me flowers, they write long lovely cards, they send me to a massage therapist, but they don't have time to sit down with me for coffee and take time to catch up on their lives. FOR ME, because Quality Time is my most prominent language, I feel a little detached and wonder if our relationship is on unsteady ground EVEN THOUGH they have done some very thoughtful things. Knowing what YOUR primary language is as well as others helps you to speak your truth in a way that they can actually hear and receive it. Giving them kindnesses is great but sometimes you're speaking Japanese and they are speaking Swahili!

UCpaaHVg6u0

@CuddleDuncan Those are really great cuddle language ideas. I would add "presence", as in being mentally present and checked in, being available to participate in the conversation. But perhaps that's implied in any conversation?

@Ennea2HugU The greater love that any two people are allowed to share, without threatening marital bonds or stirring enmity, is definitely what we all should be here for. Here being everywhere. I do professional massage, and I'm usually quiet throughout, just communicating tactilely. One could even say any therapist has a unique accent! Mine would be "Jersey", because I'm brash, to the point, and in your face (at least on your temples and masseters).

@JasonCuddles I'm constantly looking for tense muscles, to the point where it's second nature. Once found, I feel for how resistant it is to pressure, and decide if it's something that can be massaged into surrender. It may take some bargaining, placating, and subterfuge, or at least a workaround. When that fails, there's Biofreeze.

@Chris55555 Yes! How often do we fail to reach an accord over an issue because we failed to use a common language?

@Babichev Бабищев My favorite language is food! What I look forward to when I travel is trying out new cuisines. I'm heading to Ukraine in a few weeks, and I notice that over there Georgian food seems to be popular. I'll be carbing up!

@sillysassy Thank you for that! Connection is better to describe the essence of what we are after.

happybear

i think that ones love languages gives context to how you interact with one another be it in a romantic, platonic, or otherwise relationship. the better we understand ourselves, by introspection, the better we can adjust our love antenna, our cuddle antenna to others we interact with and can endorse ourselves and what we need and want that will make us happy, validated, heard, and appreciated an be there for your other similarly.

sillysassy

@happybear yes. THIS!!!

CTCuddleGuy

Not sure how it’s helpful to say love languages are not “real.” Do we really want to open that can of worms? how far down the rabbit hole can we go?

The “reality” is that the physical world of nature is real. The day and night are real. (Weekends, weekdays, weeks, months, years are not real – they are all days, we just came up with ways to classify them (workday/non-workday). Everything else, from money to religion to business to governments to politics, is a figment of human imagination. Some humans, somewhere and at some time, just came up with all of these things. Right?

There is, however, some research to support the concept of five love languages. Some researchers did a factor analysis of Chapman's LLs and fit a 5-factor structure, which is supporting evidence that his 5 "languages" can be well distinguished with a personality test. The researchers also relate their Love Languages measure to another measure called "Relational maintenance behaviors", which is also a 5-factor measure of relationship success. The authors use the relation between the two measures to evidence the validity of their own Love Language measure, so you might also be interested in checking out that other measure. As far as I can tell, that is the only research supporting Chapman's specific claims.

I think the more important question, rather than are they real, is are they helpful? As the father of children who have very different primary love languages (from each other and from me) I can say absolutely. If you want to communicate to someone that they are loved, surely you want to convey the message in a way that will be received? Right? People FEEL loved in different ways. That seems obvious to me. Doesn’t it to you?

If someone important to you doesn’t respond to hugs the same way you do, maybe try a different love language with them. It’s often easy to figure out what language they “speak” by paying attention to how they try to show love to others.

It seems likely the me that people seeking cuddles on a site like this have “physical touch” as (one of) their primary love language(s). All this really means, in terms of love languages, is that we find touch to be soothing, relaxing, and something that gives us the extra boost that we sometimes need. Touch triggers psychological and physiological responses. I think we all get that, eh?

I’d love to see a neuroscientist study levels of response to cuddling in those who test high for physical touch as a love language vs those who test low.

Whether “real” or not, the love languages are a useful construct (like time!) that can help people. So, why not “embrace” the concept? 🙂

nurturingman

@CTCuddleGuy I love the way you used research and logic to argue for the existence and benefits of recognizing love languages and how they relate to cuddling.

Amortentia

@UCpaaHVg6u0 Lucky you! Have a safe trip to Ukraine. That's my native country but haven't lived there for many years now. Do you go there often?

And oops sorry about the off topic. I shall redeem myself now.

So I don't think "love languages" is appropriate for a platonic cuddle. Maybe more of an "affectionate language" would work. Basically, you are being nice and respectful in your speech while maintaining all boundaries to make sure they're comfortable in your presence. It's like having a guest over but it's a cuddle guest. So use the same language to the cuddler as a gues except just a tad bit closer in each other's presence.

CuddleDuncan

I do think love languages is a useful concept. It would have helped my partner and I when things were starting to go wrong. It wouldn't have changed anything in the end, but it might have slowed or eased the process.

UCpaaHVg6u0

@Amortentia Hi! I've never been to Ukraine before. I felt a strong desire to resume traveling, and EU was not cooperating very well, though understandably enough. Ukraine has a rich, varied history, and has so many fascinating elements to incite curiosity. I plan to spend 5 days in Kyiv including Pyrohiv Rural Museum, then take a night train to Carpathians (Uzhhorod maybe?), then see Lviv, Kamianets-Podilskyi, and Odessa. There's wiggle room, naturally, and I'm thinking maybe I should see Kharkiv. Not planning on trying to see Donbass! If you have suggestions I'm open.

Just as there are many different types of attraction, there are many different types of love. Not all love is sexual or romantic!

As other commenters have said, love languages are useful in many different types of affectionate relationship—including the one you have with your cuddle buddy.

nurturingman

I love that second link, Learn the Different Types of Love (and Better Understand Your Partner) by Dr. Carol Morgan on Lifehack https://www.lifehack.org/816195/types-of-love! It includes both the eight kinds of love according to the ancient Greeks and the five love languages according to Dr. Gary Chapman. I remember learning about only three kinds of love: agape, eros, and philia in high school. I've always just thought of platonic, non-sexual cuddling for cuddling's sake in terms of agape, but now I see how it can also include philia (affectionate love), storge (familial love), and lutus (playful love). I also see how cuddling can bring a sense of philautia, since giving yourself the gift of a cuddle is an act of self-love, and the kind words and warm cuddles offered by a cuddle buddy can bring out a person's self-love. I also see how mania (obsessive love) can happen if one develops feelings for their cuddle buddy, or what psychologists would call "transference." My understanding is that transference can be handled by acknowledging it, affirming that it is natural, and reiterating the boundaries of the relationship. I also can imagine how longtime cuddle buddies, or pro-client relationships that involve many sessions over a long term can bring about pragma (enduring love).

Returning to the topic, I don't think the word love is terribly problematic in the context of cuddling, since as described above, there are various kinds of love that do not include sex. I can see how the following love languages relate to cuddling:

• Words of affirmation can be spoken by cuddle partners to each other, such as "you deserve to feel good / you are worthy of love / you are a good cuddler!"
• Acts of service can be what therapeutic touch is, in addition to showing your cuddle partner a good time with a clean place, clean body, clean clothes, pleasant environment, cushy cuddle corner, soothing music, soft lighting, etc.
• Receiving gifts can be extra time for cuddles over the time booked (such as an extra 15 minutes), or even something like a glass of ice water, unopened bottle of water, or even a fresh coconut to drink the coconut water and scoop out the soft flesh from.
• Quality time can be provided by giving your cuddle partner your entire focus, being in your body and present in the moment, being a good listener— basically making sure the cuddle session feels like "quality time" to the cuddle partner or client.
• Physical touch can be, well, duh— the tender/soft/strong/firm touches involved in cuddling!

cuddleYouMe

I'd say @nurturingman describes the love languages well in the context of cuddling.

The hiccup the OP seems to have is the word 'love' and thinking that the love languages only refers to romantic love, but when I see and mention the 'love languages', I see it as referring the particular ways that people like or may even need in order to 'feel' loved. Not just romantic, but to feel like someone cares about you or that you're important, and in that sense it can very much be useful in platonic scenarios.

An example is a parent who provides all their kids' physical needs (aka food, shelter) but never tells them they do a good job in school or when they achieve something. Or who tell them "I love you" but don't ever hug them or show it publicly. Some people are fine with that, others crave it. Some people really like to receive or give gifts, some people prefer to have the lawn mown. Those are examples of different love languages in action. Often, the ones you like to receive can be different from what others like to receive, so knowing that this concept exists can help you love or show love/kindness to others better, and/or in a way that means something to them

Many people here will reference a love language of 'physical touch' or perhaps 'quality time' to say that that is an extra reason they really like/need cuddling, because they feel they haven't gotten enough of it in their life or as of late. Most people will have a primary love language and 1 or 2 secondaries it seems. If you happen to know what those are, you can make the time more enjoyable for people by translating that to the platonic cuddle setting.

You can see the love language not as an absolute, but as a guide or general categorization. It's possible that there are more than 5 and/or that they could be more detailed, but as a general rule of thumb I see it as true in my own life, and I see others act it out as well. Similar to how science is our interpretation and understanding and trying to figure out how the real world works (aka chemistry, physics, etc), our understanding and models may be incomplete, but you gotta start somewhere.

sillysassy

YES @nurturingman Well said!!!! @cuddleYouMe yes indeed. Great word.... general categorization and addition.

sillysassy

NECROPOSTING AHEAD

YES.... I AM TOTALLY RESURRECTING THIS THREAD. And a few others as well because they tie into it a little bit.
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/forum/discussion/12863/0/#Form_Comment
https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/forum/discussion/13782/0/#Form_Comment

@narsal recently sent this tiktok about the 5 love languages and I found it incredibly interesting. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT83YA4GW/

BACKHISTORY/CONTEXT

When I was 20 ish, I learned this Love Language idea about the same time as I learned about Myers Briggs Temperament Indicator. They are both somewhat correlated in my mind. Before this, I thought there was one way to think about things (from my DAD, and if you didn't think like him then you didn't have common sense) AND the only difference between people had to do with gender. Conservative, CisHet traditional type stuff. "Men like this" and "Women like this" type of framework.

NOW that I am A LOT older I am not interested in that myopic point of view of the world.

(Also, referencing bell hooks book "The Will To Change" and the idea that the teachings of the Patriarchy hurt both men and women.)

The tiktok by KC Davis LPC, speaks about how men were trained to express emotions through physical intimacy but weren't necessarily encouraged to figure out the internal emotional experience and might not have ever figured out any other way to relate besides touch. She also commented on how this might account for the disproportionate percentages genderwise.

I really embraced the ideas of the 5 Love Languages even though they came from a man who I believe to be cringeworthy because of his hate for anything unrelated to Christianity. I'm seeing a few things in a different light today... and that is how this thought process can be limiting and also how it can be misused when people are being controlling and selfish.

Ways the love language can be used in toxic relationships....

Certain people make you feel like you are going crazy! You are doing everything in your power to make the someone happy and then they say you are selfish, high maintenance, too sensitive or lazy. Some people want you to do the work of the relationship as well as the work of their own growth! If they don’t feel “loved” because you stop filling up the bucket they feel it is their right to flip things on you so you take up the work of the relationship again. Their love language says, “If you love me you will be unselfish so I can be selfish.”

These people feel “loved” when you are proving your love and loyalty. They believe you are invested into the relationship when you invest more into them than you invest in you. They believe you care when they see you exhausted from the endless trying. They feel cherished when you feel weary.

Antoher article that points out the negative aspects of Gary Chapman's book.
https://www.canculturemag.com/feature-1/2023/2/10/the-loveless-truth-behind-the-five-love-languages

Additionally, the touch needs of queer, ace or neurodivergent folks, whose relationships with physical touch are fluid, might change depending on the day, the person or how over/under stimulated they are. This doesn't mean you do not fall under the “physical touch” category but rather that a relationship is an inherently ever changing dynamic, so its facets must also be treated as such. These love languages force you to settle into rigid patterns that disallow growth from both you and your partners.

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I know this might turn into a very controversial discussion, so as always.... please be kind and mindful when presenting your thoughts and opinions.

All of this sent me down a rabbit hole on this snowy Colorado day and I'm curious about your thoughts. 😊

TxTom

How are "Love Languages" appropriate for CC?

Considering we're all adults here and bestowed with a certain degree of common sense, the specific meaning of "love language" is obvious within the context of a website such as CuddleComfort.

BoomerSpooner

@sillysassy Excellent breakdown of the fallacies of the love languages. I would add that putting classifications using basic descriptors on love or any feeling is limiting and serves nothing other than making people to feel unique much like the Myers-Briggs test does. I think people are much more complex than that and as one portion of your quotes explains, there are agendas.

hugo_stieglitz

@sillysassy : when I moved to Boston first day there met Bell hooks. Second day Howard zinn. Third day noam Chomsky. I shouldn't have waited four more years to leave because nothing was probably going to get better than those three days.

I don't see why what you wrote would be considered controversial. For starters the scientific evidence for love languages is about as conclusive as whatever that test that tells you whether you are an introvert , extrovert, etc.. it is essentially unfalsifiable so doesn't even fit in the realm of science. But what do I know that might just be the Sagittarius in me.

cuddlefaery

May I recommend, instead of the highly problematic "5 love languages", the more inclusive (in every sense of the word) "Speaking from the Heart: 18 Languages for Modern Love" by Anne Hodder-Shipp.

https://www.themodernlovelanguages.com/

Some basic concepts around why to consider them:

• love is not just romantic/sexual
• neurodivergent and disabled people tend to express love differently
• queer, BIPOC, trans, polyamorous, a-spec, and otherwise non "white monogamous heterosexual cisgendered" folks exist
• most people fall in the middle of spectrums rather than on the extreme ends
• using a quiz to "determine" one's love language(s) assumes that they are stagnant across time and different relationships. It also tends to lead people to devalue their non-dominant languages, which discourages growth and better communication between people of differing languages. Instead, the value of talking about love languages is in thinking critically about how we express and communicate love, affection, and appreciation - and how we receive it. It should foster growth mindset and mutual learning rather than "well, this is just how I am" mentality.

I highly recommend reading the Languages of Modern Love FAQ for further breakdown into the why and how they were created: https://www.themodernlovelanguages.com/faqs

The author of the 5 love languages is a hugely problematic person, who created a problematic system that caters to his very narrow definitions of love and relationships. It's long past time we stopped supporting him blindly by copycatting what we hear others say, and instead think critically and support more inclusive and factually accurate language.

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Edit to add:

So to answer the OP - love languages absolutely are appropriate and useful to discuss in the context of platonic cuddling. The so called "5 love languages" as written by the author I won't give credit to? Not appropriate as they and he stand for everything that I believe goes against the ideals of platonic cuddling (i.e. non-consent, touch=sex, love=sex, love=romantic only and must lead towards marriage, touch can only occur between monogamous married heterosexual couples, accepting & including LGBTQ people when discussing love = bad, no need to update his system since there's only "one twue way" to love).

TxTom

...queer, BIPOC, trans, polyamorous, a-spec, and otherwise non "white monogamous heterosexual cisgendered" folks exist...

Questions:
1) Why are sexual/romantic categorizations being contrasted against racial/ethnic categorizations? That's a bit of apples to oranges.

2) Could "monogamous heterosexual cisgendered" folks also apply to other racial/ethnic groups? Why the singling out?

cuddlefaery

@TxTom to respond to your questions,
1) in this case because the author of the 5 love languages very specifically caters to an audience of white, cisgendered, heterosexual people. His system is not based off of science but off of his experiences, which exclusively are working as a pastor with married couples who fall into the aforementioned identities. As such, his system largely ignores and excludes the experiences of everyone else (and in particular the identities I mentioned in my original comment), and he has been vocally against updating his system to include other perspectives.
2) absolutely, as intersectionality is important to consider in general. They are not being singled out, other than the author's choice to exclude some people's experiences since they don't align with his values and own perspective.

Edit to add:
In case you have not already, I highly recommend reading @sillysassy 's comment above along with the included links, as well as the FAQ I linked, which also includes further information.

sillysassy

@TxTom
The title of the thread was not mine. @UCpaaHVg6u0 was asking this question because it WASN'T obvious to him.

the specific meaning of "love language" is obvious within the context of a website such as CuddleComfort.

You also said...

Considering we're all adults here and bestowed with a certain degree of common sense...

I really struggle with the notion of "common sense" for various reasons. The implication is that there is a singular way to look at something and if you don't happen to see it that way, then you are an idiot/without sense. There are a lot of people in this community who might not agree with you and I would rather leave room for them to have a different idea than to try and catergorize things as "common sense" or.... NOT.
More often than not I have learned some beautiful life lessons from people with different perspectives than me, but thank you for sharing your opinion.

@cuddlefaery I appreciate the website! It is definitely going to be on my list of books to explore.

For the FAQ's link shared... Its a great synopsis.

What is a love language?
Love languages are an idea related to the ways people express, identify, and receive love (and also care, affection, and respect). Think about them like literal languages: there are upwards of 6,500 different languages in the world, which means there are at LEAST 6,500 different ways humans communicate with each other. Many languages also have various dialects (German has 250!) which are like languages within a language. While we all may be saying the same or similar things, we use a wide variety of words, movements, and sounds to express them, and there is no single “official” or “correct” way to do it. Same goes for love.

Languages for Modern Love are just one tool among many that can help build, strengthen, and maintain relationships and community. But since you asked, here’s why I recommend it to most of the people I work with:
It can be tough (though not impossible!) to connect, understand, and relate to each other when we’re speaking different languages — especially if we’re expecting others to prioritize or automatically understand ours. This is why it can be helpful not only to recognize and respect all the unique ways people communicate, but also make effort to learn about them.

@BoomerSpooner I completely agree that people are very complex. Finding ways to appreciate them and make them FEEL understood and cared for is no easy task. I adore the opportunity to learn about someone who relates to the external world differently than I do. More than trying to cage someone or label them with a specific tagline of personality traits, I want to share more in order to understand each other. Another book called Please Understand Me had a different spin on the personality stuff. The Enneagram has been interesting as well.

I think some people finally feel ok in who they are after reading those kinds of books, because it helps them see that just because they see the world through a different lens than the majority of people, doesn't make them any less worthy of love.

To clarify why I called the author cringeworthy
In 1990, Conservative Christian Gary Chapman, who is an 86 year old white man, wrote the book The 5 Love Languages from his research in counseling "monogamous heterosexual cisgendered" folks. HE WROTE THIS BOOK FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE AND NOT FROM ANY KIND OF SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.
In the 1990's appoximately 90% of Americans identified as Christians but recent studies show that number to be dropping significantly. Its now around 60% based on Pew Research.

That being the case..... there are a lot of people who find Chapman's book to be a bit MYOPIC because he wasn't interested in any kind of expression of love outside of his perception of acceptable Christian behavior. Hence, a discussion that is now more inclusive of all kinds of thoughts about the expression of affection.

Some of the things Chapman wrote are incredibly hurtful to a LOT of people.