@FunCartel i do offer friendly emotional support. I also don’t allow my personal friends to trauma dump on me without consent. I’m talking about HEAVY emotional or violent topics. Some days I can handle deep painful conversation and some days I cannot. If the client says something like “Hey, I’ve had something pretty serious on my mind lately, do you mind if I share it here today?” Would help all parties have the best experience. If asked first, I don’t have to cut you off in the middle of your emotional story to tell you it’s triggering to me. The same way that you ask “do you mind if I touch your face?” during a session, or “do you mind if we switch into this position?” It’s a question that gives the other person an opportunity to consent to that particular activity before the activity begins. Platonic touch therapy does not mean “touch me anywhere and say anything you want to me.” Communication of intent will give the best experience to all parties. Obviously I can cut you off and tell you my boundary, but your feelings will probly be hurt more that way than if asking consent is practiced first.
Nowhere did I say: never talk about heavy things with a Cuddler. I said “Ask Consent.”
Twice over the last 5 years, women I was paying to cuddle me, ended up sharing their personal trauma and crying, for about an hour each time, while I was holding them in my arms. I felt honored that they trusted me enough to confide in me. In both cases they were upset with people they were related to (parents, ex-husband). In one case, the lady said I didn’t have to pay her for the hour that she was tearfully venting.
The only relevant training I’ve had is a 16-hour suicide prevention class that I took when I was volunteering for the military. Fortunately, neither lady was suicidal. They were upset over situations that had been going on for a while (nothing criminal). Neither of them are currently on this website (only one of them had been).
The part of my thread about entitlement was directed at a specific comment that has since been removed by a moderator. Because he was obviously incorrect for thinking that “because he’s paying us, that means he can talk about whatever he wants.” That’s not true. The site doesn’t think it’s true. And this thread is supposed to help y’all not traumatize other ppl and hurt yourself more in the process. If you wanna go around throwing trauma stories at people without consent, please do not book with me. Please see a mental health professional for psychotherapy assistance.
@CuddleButtLOL thats beautiful you could share those experiences. If both parties are consenting, sharing trauma can be very relieving of stress.
@MegaGoodCuddles Agreed, consent should always be a practiced here and in our everyday interactions as well. I think that must be a difficult part of being a pro - people assuming purchasing a block of time means adhering to their boundaries without respect to yours. I would hope it's a rare occurrence (or one that doesn't happen at all really) for a pro or enthusiast.
Not sure if that's a bit of a pipedream really🤔 But having discussions like these is important so people don't lose sight of what CC is about. Even in my short time on the site, it's taught me how to better communicate my needs and expectations with family/friends and others on CC. As well as respecting the needs/boundaries of others.
All in all, doing those things enhances the ability to find your safe space with cuddle partners here and in "real life."
@MegaGoodCuddles I get all that and I understand and practice consent BUT my point was you put all that out here on a thread in the forum which a small minority of the CC community reads, but it is no where on your profile. I see plenty of profiles that mention consent and that is especially important when you cuddle someone with mental health challenges. I never talk much about personal stuff with anyone but I can empathize with someone who is struggling. If you just say please ask for consent not only physically but emotionally it definitely sends the correct message.
@MegaGoodCuddles, I concur. 100% with every word you typed. I spent too many hours the first few years of my cuddle profession listening to alll the things. It burned me out. Consent is everything! Some days I have the capacity and others I do not. I now tell my clients they need to check in with me before getting into their stories. Like you said, communicating that will allow for less hurt feelings if/when I have to ask them to stop.
"I feel like most people who book professionals do so because they are “professionals” and probably expected them to be more understanding than an enthusiast."
Most professionals have zero professional training and I think people need to start realizing that. Yes, there are some professionals who are trained therapists or have some sort of mental health background, but they are a tiny minority. Just because you are getting paid to have someone hold you, does not give you the right to tell them your life's story.
Maybe it's time to consider adding a third category to our vernacular: "Paid Cuddler" this would go a long way in helping non-trained cuddlers to avoid getting stuck listening to someone download their woes and traumas to them.
Reported and reviewed. Removing comment due to denigrating pros. [Charlie_Bear]
If this whole thread is about “consent”, copy the first post and paste it on your profile page instead of just telling people in a forum what you don’t like. We aren’t the one’s looking to hire you.
@Matt462 you don’t have to read the forum or interact. That’s your choice. 🙏
That’s what forums are for, if you were just trying to make a statement, put it on your profile.
Solid points to both ends - I've done repeated revisions to my profile because of interactions on the boards and in messages so there's no confusion.
I think we can all agree consent/boundaries are important as well as clearly communicating them through our profiles or initial discussions with a potential cuddle partner.
I don't think anyone is trying to be hateful here but can understand the frustration from both sides.
I’ve been going through a lot, had a great cuddle with an enthusiast last week, she had no problem listening to what I was going through and it cost me nothing, she even offered some great advice! I just think if you’re going to call yourself a professional and charge $100 an hour you should be prepared to deal with people who are going through some things. And if you’re going to complain on a forum, you should expect that not everyone shares your opinion, and they have the same right as you to voice their opinion!
Reported and reviewed. Removing comment due to denigrating pros, again. [Charlie_Bear]
@Matt462 I'm trying to remain empathetic here but - while you acknowledge consent is important - you also seem resentful that someone is bringing up their own issues with it. Pro or enthusiast, the idea of consent should be respected. I think it can be discussed without being angered by it.
I don't feel as if I should "expect" a pro to tolerate more than an enthusiast (or any individual would). That "you should" thinking is a very slippery slope and - if directed at ourselves - most of us would be offended.
That's great you found an enthusiast match but I would hope you'd still ask her for her consent before discussing emotionally charged topics. There may be days they are also experiencing high emotions and don't have the mental/emotional space for it.
Could she specify her limitations more specifically in her profile? Certainly - most of us could. But I like that she brought it up as a discussion topic or many may not have considered or known how to approach communicating their needs.
I’m a big mental health advocate, and I guess hearing a “professional” complain about “trauma dumping” gets me angry! You can tell people, “I’m sorry you’re going through a lot right now, but so am I and I’d prefer not to talk about traumatic things”. Your profile should let people know your boundaries and what you are uncomfortable with, this would help you avoid “dealing” with people who also want to talk about why exactly they hired you. As a professional carpenter, if someone hires me to build them a deck and then want me to do their plumbing, I don’t do the plumbing then complain about it. I just tell them I’m not a plumber. And most likely tell them how they can find a good plumber!
Just sharing my .02 cents
When I sit in the salon chair with my good friend, I'm paying her to take care of my hair. Over the years we have talked and shared many difficult experiences. One of the reasons we've become good friends, I believe, is communication. Also, trust and consent. In @MegaGoodCuddles first post, the word consent really resonated with me.
I don't assume, just because we've shared a difficult convo before, that this moment is also going to be okay. When I sit and she asks how have you been? ... if something heavy happened, I will say "can I share something heavy, are u in a good space?" Or "I have something heavy, lmk when/if there's a good time to share." I don't vent without asking. I would never assume she wants to hear my crappy experience.
If she isn't in a good space, or it's not good timing for whatever reason, I've lobbed it out there and given her an opportunity to evaluate/respond.
The reason I do this is because 1) I feel like it's common courtesy and 2) I want her to be an authentic listener. Willing and able. It makes the "dump" much more satisfying for me, honestly. I don't want her to be internally rolling her eyes or giving the basic uh-huh, mhmmm, etc.
Connection is made when 2 people ask, and give, consent. I'm looking for the connection. But that's just me.
Also, I loved what @cuddlefaery said, too
Thank you for addressing this! 💕consent is so important as we are not mental health therapists. I enjoy creating a safe space, but I am not equipped with the tools to provide mental health therapy. This is where having a referral network could be so beneficial.
@Matt462 This is why we should reframe what the idea of a "professional" here means. As far as I'm aware, it isn't a guarantee on a particular type of cuddler - moreso that the pro has allocated a block of time to spend with someone and will be paid for that time.
It could be anything from holding hands in a park to hours of cuddling on a bed. It can be completely silent or with a music/movie/talking going on. It's so specific from person to person here that I'd find it difficult to expect the same experience from anyone. There may be some pros here with training in counseling, etc. but I wouldn't expect anyone here to function as a mental health professional or be my space to vent.
For people trained in fields such as psychiatric care or - as you mentioned, carpentry - the expectations would change. I guess the point here is to curb expectations and have more comprehensive communication with anyone we'd cuddle with.
If you’re charging people money you should make people aware of what you specifically charge for, do’s and don’ts. Instead of complaining about them trauma dumping after the fact, that’s what profiles are for. When you put your opinions out in a forum, expect that you may step on some toes. I give people a written estimate, they know exactly what I’m charging for, your professional profile should be your written estimate! Let people know what you do and don’t do. It’s that easy!
Boundaries usually shift and change a bit day to day. While some are "hard" boundaries, some are "soft" and more flexible. And as I've stated in previous threads, boundaries are NOT rules. Boundaries define yourself, your behaviors and actions - they do not restrict what others can or cannot do, but rather how you will respond to what others do.
If you have a boundary around trauma dumping, that is every bit your right - we all need to protect our own mental health and define the relationship between us and our cuddle partners. But if you are using your boundary to dictate what your cuddle partner can or cannot do, then it has become a rule. And if you are making rules that impact your mutual interactions without your cuddle partner's informed consent, imo that is every bit as unethical as them ignoring clearly stated boundaries.
We express our boundaries to others so that they know what behaviors we will and will not tolerate, and what our actions will be as a consequence of them overstepping. If you do not discuss your boundaries with the people you interact with, then they are not going to know what your expectations are not and frankly cannot be negatively blamed for stepping over an invisible line they did not know existed. If you discuss the boundary and they choose to cross it anyway? Then it is up to you to follow through and uphold the boundary because, again, boundaries define us and our behaviors, not those of others.
Coming onto a forum that your cuddle partners may or may not see to discuss the concept of trauma dumping and the harm it does you personally is fine, but if you are not clearly informing your partners of your boundaries and then expecting them to follow them? You've removed their ability to have full informed consent to interactions with you. So I truly hope the people who are saying this is a hard boundary for them are informing all of their cuddle partners before they hold them to such expectations, or they are at least allowing the boundary such flexibility to discuss it after the first incident, so that moving forward their cuddle partner can decide whether they wish to continue interacting or whether they would be better finding a partner more compatible.
@Matt462 I see your point and understand where you're coming from. I actually feel that anyone on this site should be specific about what they hope for during a cuddle experience as well as outlining their boundaries. Even for the sake of saving everyone time, it's a useful practice to follow. I rarely even look at profiles anymore because most are just stats that give me no impression of the person as a potential cuddler.
I don't think the OP's intent was to "step on toes" nor do I think her post means she should be subjected to being spoken to in a manner that could be demeaning/insulting, etc. That's not really a contract you enter into here just by expressing a viewpoint on a discussion board.
For me to be offended, I would have to assume the OP intended to offended people. Or the statement posted would have to be racist, sexist, etc. It's a "vent" - for lack of a better word - that brings up important points about consent, boundaries, and expectations people may have when utilizing CC.
Seems like this is simply part of the boundary discussion prior to scheduling a cuddling session.
Using the term “trauma dumping” is what gets me. It sounds like she had a client who needed to talk to someone. Communicating with that person is what should be done. If you live in the same area refer them to your therapists practice. If you are being triggered by clients words and don’t have a therapist, you should get one. That person is no better off now than they were before the cuddle session. And it obviously had an effect on the professional. If the only objective is to make money, that’s terrible! We need to help each other out, boundaries should be discussed before meeting.
I think @Calibrate715 is one of the few contributors here who understand what @MegaGoodCuddles was saying and took it in the spirit it was given. What Mega said was reasonable and supported by the site. It seems to me that a person should not and would not assume that something best handled by a therapist would be brought into a cuddle, especially no questions asked. Apparently many people did not know this and like Calibrate I think it's good it got discussed in the forum.
@Calibrate715 Great viewpoint about being offended:)
There’s a reason therapists call their offices a “practice” and not a “trauma dump”
@cuddlefaery I am saving what you wrote about consent; it is really really good.
I think the best thing a pro can do if they don't want to hold space for something is be graceful about it. Maybe very kindly say, "I don't think I can hold space for this right now, but I can cuddle you," or "You know, I think this is above my pay grade," or, "I'm not the right person to talk to about this," or, "I can feel myself getting triggered / not able to listen well. Can we talk about something else?" Whatever is authentic and reflects compassion for the two people in the situation. Start gentle but direct, and give them a chance to take the hint.
Doing this well requires letting go of narratives like, "I shouldn't even be in this situation. No pro cuddler would be willing to hear this. No pro cuddler should be willing to hear this. The client should know not to bring this up. This is the problem with people." If the fear is making them feel rejected, practice holding boundaries in a way that doesn't make someone wrong. People can't predict what is or isn't ok to share in a pro cuddle context. A client may have already shared something they wouldn't share with anyone else in their life, so they are encouraged to share more, not realizing it is in a different category for you.
The standard of making requests and receiving affirmative verbal consent has its place, but it shouldn't just be applied to something like conversation topics, unilaterally, post hoc, to create perpetrators and victims. I empathize with @Matt462, and the original post definitely made me feel a bit "activated," shall we say. I really value the people in my life who are safe spaces to talk about difficult feelings, including cuddle pros that I have seen. If one of them, instead of holding a simple boundary about a topic, were to blame and shame me for inappropriately "trauma-dumping," I would be mortified, and the trust and safety of our relationship would be greatly impacted. At certain points in my life, it would have even shaken my belief in the ability of anyone to feel safe enough (e.g. safe enough to say they don't want to talk about something, if they don't) to provide a safe space for me. I am extremely responsible about honoring other people's boundaries and would never want to vent or "unload" to someone who didn't want to hear it.
This thread is not going to change clients' behavior. It seems like there is this idea that now that we have social media, we don't have to deal with people as they are anymore, we can just change everyone to be as we wish they were by calling them out (shaming them) online, as if the people we are talking about are going to read it and take it to heart. And if we simply invoke the idea that people should always ask for consent before doing something that might cross a boundary, we don't have to hold our boundaries, or if we do, they are doing something wrong, so at least there's that. This is a great opportunity to reflect on consent and boundaries and how and why and when, and cuddlefaery has done a great job laying it out.
I think it would be a good idea if the “professionals” googled some therapists in their area, even visit a couple to get some literature. If someone starts talking about the trauma they’ve experienced, you can tell them that you can’t really help them with that specifically but give them some literature or point them in the right direction. You could be saving a life and not even know it!