Sorry all: had to take a nap. 10-hour worknights mean going to bed early....
Anyway—do in-text links not show up on mobile? I linked to A Photo History of Male Affection, see (just like @me2 did in the "Men who don't cuddle men, why not?" thread), and figured it was self-explanatory.
The 1920s weren't that long ago. "These days" are pretty recent.
@DarrenWalker Sorry, I didn’t see that link. I’ll check it out! Thanks. I am genuinely curious. I love learning about what things used to be like and why they have changed for better or for worse.
@b_link121: So they are showing up, after all—they're just easier to overlook than I thought. That's kind of a relief, because I don't like laying the whole link out there; it looks untidy to me. I can carry on with the in-text links, then! Even if only the sharp-eyed'll catch them. Oh well. At least they're working.
I hope you enjoy the article as much as I did when @me2 linked to it. The topic kind of branches if you follow the links in the article itself, too (and then the links in those articles, and so on). It's absorbing.
There at times in cuddle work shops that some exercises include group cuddles that is have shared with another man. Also during another workshop where I was paired with another male, during his massage n light touches of non intimate area, that I was aroused, nothing acted apron.
@b_link121 this is a great direction thanks. Yes it has been discussed before but i like the way this has gone so thank you.
One thing I also want to point out is that even today in fraternities and competitive sports teams there is still a lot of full body hugs, and large amounts of touch.
A few people have pointed out there are different levels of comfort and different types of cuddles. I in general am not a full body on the bed type of cuddler unless I'm extremely comfortable with them. I'm a couch or chair cuddler and public cuddles are still my faves. But the idea is that touch is touch. Cuddling is touch so that butt smack, those high 5's, the bend elbow quick hug, those are all forms of comfort and connection which is what we as a community are advocating. Connection through touch.
The above was directed at the idea of men feeling irrationally homophobic with close same sex contact not necessarily an illustration of full contact horizontal cuddling. Just a way to say men were more comfortable with touching and being vulnerable to other men in earlier times and not so hyper aware of a possible sexual thought flirting through his head while it was happening.
Plus one thing we fail to remember is that from the time we are old enough to start potty training boys, teens and men are always told to man up or suck up those emotions. That is extremely unfair to the physically male gender. Men still have emotions and need a place to feel safe to express a degree of vulnerability without being seen as off somehow.
I do love the reasoning presented about body dynamics. I don't necessarily like to cuddle someone who isn't comfortable for my particular set of body measurements. I'd prefer to cuddle a person who compliments those or we'd need LOTS of pillows to make up for the deficits. Male to male, female to female or opposites the physical size and shape is a better gauge of my willingness to cuddle than the sex or identified sex of the one I'm cuddling.
May I say that it is refreshing to see another poster who uses words and doesn't shy away from full sentences! I used to get harped on about the length of my posts!! Probably still do but the way I look at it is that if someone doesn't want to read what I have to say they are lucky that they can just scroll right through my page and a half or comments and easily jump to the next one rather than having to scroll through multiple little comments. So we(@b_link121 & myself) are doing them a favor by putting it all in one. :P :P
@DarrenWalker - that was a fascinating article, thanks for posting that link. Clearly male to male affection has become much less socially acceptable over time. I'm not sure how much weight I give to the old photographs though as no-one can know which photos show actual gay couples or which show friends. And it looks like more than a few photos feature brothers or other relatives who you would expect to be more affectionate.
There are also cultures as recently as the 90s and early 2000 where it was more acceptable for men to show eachother.
Prior to homosexuality becoming illegal in Nigeria it was common for men in to hold hands, dance very close & sleep together.
I totally see it as cultural. Scandinavians sauna together nude. Japanese people same gender bathe nude. I disagree with this American hypermasculine ideal..toxic masculinity
I'm pretty comfortable cuddling with other guys. My brother and I used to share the same bed when we were younger and we used to cuddle. There's nothing sexual about it. Intent is what matters.
@4cuddles I think your point definitely applies to me. I am straight however I'm comfortable hugging men which we did in massage school and do in my health company. When I think of cuddling however a woman's body seems softer and more comfortable. Also although men can be nurturing (I definitely am) I think most women are better. You can argue if this is by nature or by nurture however I don't think the deep relaxation and healing I feel when cuddling a woman would be the same.
i'd cuddle a dude
At this point in my life I'm not interested in selling, explaining, negotiating, nor arguing about why I like to cuddle men. When it comes to connection, then I put it on the table and if they meet me half way, we're golden. I don't care if he's straight, gay, bi, questioning, queer, nor trans. If he wants to cuddle, that's my line in the sand. Sexuality isn't a deal-breaker, but their homophobia is.
Naw I'm good lol
@Sideon I love your view on it. After all this isn't about sex or sex partners, it's about the connection, the touch, sound of a heartbeat that isn't your own.
Love it..
Paula
Lol man ya'll funny
@Sideon NAW I'm good
@Navyman1010 Relax. Try re-reading my statements. It's not like us gay guys get a toaster or a pink Mary Kay Cadillac for getting a straight dude to cuddle. Any other scenario is a bad porn trope that perpetuates more about what people fear and fail to understand about sexuality.
@Sideon
Your post is easily the best in this entire thread.
@Don17 I definitely relate to what you said. I have no idea whether it is by nature or nurture that many women just feel more comforting, comfortable, warm, kind, and nurturing or maternal. I know there are many men out there who embody those traits too to varying degrees. And there are men I’ve known, and women too, who embody the traits that I would personally associate with a kind and good father.
But I definitely feel that culture has a huge amount to do with our “training” or how we perceive things like that. Other national cultures or, even especially notable in America, sports cultures really make man to man contact a source of comeradery (no idea how to spell that...), fellowship, family, emotional bonding, etc. I often find myself feeling like I’m missing out on something wonderful when I see men (and women) who serve together in an army, on a sports team, in some kind of relief or volunteer work, or even in a family setting, who are so comfortable with and endeared to one another and who feel so comfortable and reliant on each other.
@PaulaDahla I appreciate the positive feedback. it’s nice to be noticed for that. I think your point is very interesting and true that what is so often pictured from the word “cuddling” is laying in a bed together holding each other or some such thing. It’s a new, reasonable, and positive idea to me that all the other physical connections we can make to express appreciation, love, emotion, and fellowship can also be seen as cuddling. It’s hard to break away from the training we receive in our lives, partly because it is so deeply ingrained, and also largely because it is often so close to what is true, or partially is comprised of truth. It’s like performing microscopic surgery trying to pull apart the tiny threads of truth from the lies. I guess it takes time and patience to do it right.
@Navyman1010 I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say that we-all are funny. Would you care to extrapolate so the rest of us can better appreciate and respect your views?
Whether you choose to cuddle men or not, I hope that you all are having a wonderful Christmas!!!????? We can atleast agree on a fun Christmas lol
Thank you same to you.
@TallMuscleGrad
Actually, no. There are many millions - maybe thousands of millions - of people on this planet for whom “Christmas” has no meaning. And if it did, it would be negative.
I would also like to add one comment to the topic of this thread that may or may not have been said already: if someone chooses not to cuddle with a person of the same sex, and he makes that choice specifically because he happens to be of the same sex, it does not make him “homophobic”.
As far as hugging men, I have many male friends who I greet with a hug. None of us, however, would have the slightest thought to turn it into a cuddling session.
@calineur Wow! Your vibe and last post seem so negative and critical. I have received many positive responses and will continue to be happy. It looks like you could use more joy in your life, instead of wasting time being negative. Thank you to all of the positive people that responded to my posts. One critical post does not stop all of us positive people. Oh so you hug but do not cuddle men. So I guess that makes you better than us, I don’t think so lol ?
My post wasn’t intended to be negative at all. It was, however, meant to educate you to the fact that people can be happy without it being related to an ancient Roman holiday.
@TallMuscleGrad As for the second and third paragraphs, they weren’t directed to you. Apparently you misunderstood that, and if I failed to make that clear, I am doing so now. Regardless, though, your response to that expressed viewpoint misses the point there as well. It was merely meant to add a perspective that I felt that many others think but won’t express with comment due to the likelihood of subsequent reactive comments, such as the one immediately preceeding this one.
As far as having a “negative vibe”, there might be something to that. But re-read the title of the thread and think for a moment. The fact is that I dislike commenting on threads that appear to have the purpose of either stirring up controversy or voicing personal ideology. But if we do, we should expect contradicting viewpoints.
@calineur We will have to agree to disagree. Also I am extremely educated with many University degrees and understand many cultures, due to being well traveled. Yes, there are many people in the world that may or may not celebrate but I am speaking on behalf of my and many others perspectives too who do. I don’t need you to teach me, I have known for a while. Your views do not fit me and many other people in this post. Also you are the one trying to stir up controversy, about my post. So your views seem to be in the extreme minority. Don’t even act or try to pass it off to someone else or others. If your views about celebrating and lack of openness to cuddling men don’t appeal, then maybe your on the wrong post. Enjoy your Friday.
@calineur I for one did enjoy your response. It had been mentioned civilly towards the beginning but has since gotten lost in the history lessons. The title even includes the word homophobic so your views are right on cue for this thread. You've been around long enough I know you need no help or defense as you're perfectly capable of backing up your own comments, as am I.
I agree that just because a man doesn't enjoy or want to cuddle another man doesn't make him homophobic just self-assured, he knows what he prefers to hold onto body wise. Same with women honestly; if a woman has no desire to cuddle another woman why isn't anyone giving her grief about it? (Yes, I realize this is mainly a male dominated website, that not many women comment or contribute here so logistics being what they are - it makes more sense to address the men rather then women. But maybe the OP was actually gauging how many men would be open for it since it would increase his changes for cuddles if he could find another man open to the idea)I for one, have a type I enjoy cuddling, not a sex. There are men that I don't have any interest in cuddling physically. So, if I'm cuddling as an enthusiast, I think that I should at least be allowed to pick the body type I want to be horizontal with! I'm very curvy, my hips and bottom are at least 15 inches larger than my waist, and that makes life interesting for me. Because of physical challenges I face daily, minute by minute; I have a body type preference and given a choice I will always choose that type whether man, woman, or any other identity type!
Why is it okay for me as a straight woman to cuddle a man? The presumption is that I would because I would want to have sex with him, but that's a wrong presumption. I want to cuddle someone who gives me the warm fuzzies, makes me relax, sends me silly texts or messages precuddle, someone who acts like a friend instead of a potential romance. Similarly no issue is being raised about two lesbian's or two gay men wanting to cuddle together? It's not about a sexual act. It shouldn't be regardless of a persons sexual orientation, as @Sideon stated so well earlier, it's about a cuddle only. In fact I find the pressure is off or at least lessened if I take the potential romance/sex out. No fear about typical worries with a cuddle only partner.
@TallMuscleGrad Only the first part of his comment was directed at you and it wasn't by any means aggressive or contentious. Christianity is the minority religion in this world we live in, indeed many people could and do take offense if someone were to say Merry Christmas to them. Why do you think that even here in America we no longer can say that simple phrase in schools or government programs? We are now limited to Happy Holidays or Seasons Greetings. But thank you just the same for the warm wishes to all of us, and I hope yours was happy and enjoyable as well, even though this isn't the thread for Christmas debates.
See the wonder today!
In fact maybe it's time to swing this thread around, tie a knot here and ask the real question.
How many men would be open to cuddling with another man in a non-sexual way?
Without regard to sexual preference since it's a non issue on this site.
How many men are open to cuddling each other as only men can? For the health benefits? How many of you long for A cuddle, any cuddle??
Men, do the majority of you understand how we as women can find joy & happiness in plotting long, vicious revenge for some silly thing? Do you get why women in general absolutely live to gossip? We as women in general have no idea how men can get mad at a guy, confront him, throw a punch and it's over. The two of you move on like nothing happened!! Huh? How?? That makes no sense to us. Men hang out and chat with each other differently then women do; why can't men hang out & cuddle differently then women do? Make it work for you! Talk about it, try it publicly - because even a public cuddle is better then no cuddle!
Stop trying to compete at the medal level if you haven't even practiced as a novice. Stop setting your standards so high!
What has that gotten you except frustration?
A few people have pointed out they feel sorry for my misadventures on this site but I don't look at it that way. It's discouraging yes, but I take the ones who don't know better and try and enlighten them by repetition. Constant redirecting & suggestions will eventually make us both good cuddlers and he'll be better at platonic cuddling when more women sign up so he'll be asked repeatedly for more cuddles because we practiced and both got better. A local guy currently is willing to try again to get it right so I keep trying to teach and learn right along with him. One from out west has been dumped altogether because he insisted on wearing a groove in my side with his continued dry humping! Repetition either gets you a win or kicked out.
If it's not working after all this time try something different; learn a new skill, ask for advice, be open to new things. Cuddling is a brand new thing, it hasn't been done before outside non legitimate avenues. We are at the front of a budding movement and it's flipping hard being part of the advance guard! Always has been; that's why only the best are usually in front. There are currently, and will be more male professional cuddlers, they can cuddle men just as well as women can.
@TallMuscleGrad your last post was very defensive, does that mean you are open to non sexual, friendly/platonic cuddling with other men? Without making it sexual?
In my opinion only - if a man were to set aside his learned prejudices and be open to learning new things or behaviors now it'll make him extremely in demand when cuddling truly takes off! We are all learning together! Including the pro's. If you wanna be a player when it's popular and mainstream you need to be a player now in the learning phase.
If you've experienced a truly platonic, friendly cuddle you understand the benefit of finding as many cuddle buddies as possible; so why not increase your chances by being open to cuddling with other men?
This thread is site wide which means everyone around the world is or has the option to read it. If a guy were to post here that he's open to exploring male cuddle partners and he lives within visiting distance to you, now you know he's open to the idea. -- if you don't like something, go do somethin about it! Sup.
@PaulaDahla I cuddle both genders and identify as Straight. I like how you stated points that other men may want to consider exploring cuddling men outside of culturally learned behavior. I agree from experience that cuddling both genders has increased my cuddling numbers and Karma. If fact women have wrote me before about interest in cuddling with me, due to being open to many types of cuddle partners. I agree that if more men would open up thier thinking patterns and explore if desired cuddling with other men, much positivity would result. I have opened up to the idea of course and still continue to benefit. Thank you!??
@casueno @DarrenWalker Thank you for acknowledging that this is more of a recent AND cultural problem, men not being willing to touch each other out some some learned fear of it being perceived as sexual.
@b_link121 If you want some proof that it's nuture, and not nature, that makes boys and girls act the way they do, and subsequently grow up into affection sharing / affection shunning adults, then try working with young children. I've done so for many, many years now. Boys and girls are initially equally affectionate, but then they get exposed to toys, societal expectations, and peers who have been influenced by both, and adults who set standards for how they need to act.
For the younger of the kids I taught and cared for, you might expect boys to have an affinity for traditionally male toys and girls, for traditionally female toys, but this is not the case. Many of the boys were not only happy to play with baby dolls, and dress up--plastic princess heels and all--openly and with all of their peers--but actually sometimes preferred it to the other toys in their classes because their parents wouldn't let them play with feminine toys at home and thus, it was nice to have that variety. However, sometimes parents came to visit their child, saw a boy playing with "feminine toys," and seemed embarrassed or visably upset. I even saw some two and three year old children scolded for their choices in play time. "That's not how boys act."
If left to their own devices, without shame or pressure from ADULTS, (again, it rarely came from their peers unless that peer was parroting their parents,) on average, they appreciated and enjoyed both.
On average, the boys and girls were initially equally affectionate to one another and to their teachers. But I noticed, as the classes got older, more and more rowdy play was encouraged for boys, and playing house / with dolls / other quiet, nuturing activities were encouraged--mostly by parents, but sometimes by teachers--for girls. The further up in the ages and grades you go, the more starkly you see the divide. It is learned. And we teach it distressingly early.
My ex (live-in boyfriend) loved cuddling with another man from his religious small group in Clermont, FL. Hence, the reason he's an ex. Decide if you are gay or bi, but don't involve others that will end up hurt by your selfish actions while you are attmepting to "figure out" your sexuality.
JUST BE YOU!