Good experience with cuddler, but apparently expecting mind-reading

deefine

Not sure how to talk about this, but this ended up being one of the few bad experiences I've had from someone here. Maybe someone can clue me in on if I need to ask someone if they want to do the opposite of a suggestion they agreed to.

A few days ago I drove an hour to meet someone I got along with well in chat, everything was determined beforehand, not complicated, which was great, I got there and she was very shy, I was nervous, but her shyness was to the point of seeming like she was uncomfortable with even just basic platonic touch. It was awkward when I got there anyway because it was broad daylight and when I saw the areas outside she wanted to cuddle in, I felt a little uncomfortable. Because of the awkwardness I decided to chat and walk around with her a bit to feel a little more relaxed and more familiar with each other. I didn't outright ask if we should go do the thing in the place we agreed to (is the guest supposed to push that?), so ultimately we decided to take a drive to the park to chill out since it was a nice day out.

It was a nice walk in the park, though hot, and we settled on the grass and chatted and cuddled, but it was very minimal from her part. She was honest and said she was trying to re-integrate socially and wanted comfort. She had her head rested on my chest but her arms and legs together, and after I said it was OK to put her arm across me, she declined. I did a little toesy (footsie) but she was reticent so I stopped. We did a shoulder/back/arm rub and then left.

I thought we'd try to relax and get to know each other and went around town, saw some scenery, joked, got some ice cream, which all seemed great, then we got back to her place, still daylight, and she said she was going to bed. OK. Well, she said previously she wanted to not have it even go to 9, which was fine. So I left thinking maybe it wasn't as good as it could or should have been, but I enjoyed her company and she said she was open to a next time.

I contact her today asking how she thought it was, and she said she was disappointed it wasn't mostly platonic cuddling and closeness... :facepalm:. So now I'm confused. I know what we agreed to, but when someone's reticent in person to the thing they say they want, and says nothing about actually doing it, and only responds to questions and suggestions (and never initiates or suggests or pushes for anything), then agrees to do x, y, or z, and then later says we didn't do the opposite (and when we did they weren't much open to it)... I can't read someone's mind. This kind of thing drives me crazy.

Am I supposed to explicitly ask and suggest and push for the things that the other person says they want? I haven't been with someone this reticent and mixed in their messaging and actions. When I tried to clear it up, she blocked me. Live and learn I guess. Apparently I was her first, I'm no newb at this, I don't know where people's lines are exactly with touch, but communication is part of the learning process. When you don't get a second chance for not reading someone's mind, and they don't communicate in person, then I feel like I was supposed to be their butler and know how to cater to them like I've known them for 20 years.

Sorry for the long post. I'm just flabberghasted. People, please COMMUNICATE in person, don't go limp-wristed and be blown around by the wind and then have a problem later to the point of blowing someone off and wanting nothing to do with them because you didn't tell anyone you didn't actually want to do what you agreed to do! I hope she doesn't do this to anyone else.

blueocean2020

Damn, that sucks she blocked you. Sounds like a pretty awkward experience. It seems like she was really shy. Sometimes when shy women get anxious, they end up acting cold towards you. It doesn’t really reflect anything about you. It’s their anxiety. And then they feel uncomfortable about feeling uncomfortable and if not in touch with their feelings, will project the source of their feelings onto who they are interacting with. So it seems she felt like you were the source of her uncomfortableness when it was really just anxiety. And then, she ends up blocking you. That really sucks and will probably make you feel shitty or like you did something wrong, but it sounds like meeting up with you was way out of her comfort zone in the first place and she has to work on her anxiety and communication before cuddling with strangers to avoid hurt feelings.

On your side, best not to take it personally. Sounds kinda like a bad date or something. I guess if its a pro, that would be diff, but she’s not really obligated to do anything. Sounds like she got cold feet in person. You are lucky you were even able to meet up with a non pro. Seems pretty rare.

Anyways, thats just my stab at it. Thanks for sharing. Was nice to read about someone else’s experience on here even tho it didn’t go as planned. Great details! I felt like I was there! 😄

UCpaaHVg6u0

@davebutton I don't see why you are wasting more mental energy on her at this point? Lots of fish... Maybe not in this lake, but in the ocean. And lots of awesome pro cuddlers.

Sheena123

I think even though she was incredibly shy, definitely come out and ask if she wants to do what you guys agreed on in chat. Maybe say it like this:

“Hey, I know you and I were talking about doing this: (whatever it is). Do you want to?”

If after you bring it up and she declines it, she certainly has no right to blame you that it never happened. I think asking her in a way that says “this Was your idea too” will remind her what you both agreed on and let’s her know you want to fulfill what was discussed as long as she still wants to. She can’t blame and block you at this point.

If she’s shy and says she’s changed her mind because Of anxiety, you can’t push her but at least you tried and that should be recognized. If she still somehow blocks you, that’s a “her” issue.

geoff1000

@davebutton
No man ever went to jail for NOT having sex with a woman.

My advice would always be to err on the side of caution, and touch less than you think is wanted at the time. If afterwards they say you didn't touch enough, that's their fault for poor communication.

The last thing we want is men saying "but you promised" and pushing for that, then women feeling they were pressured. A man with too much enthusiasm, is much more likely to get into trouble.

I'd say congratulations for doing what was appropriate at the time.

pmvines

@davebutton I don't feel the answer is to start a thread about someone every time something doesn't go your way or as expected but that's just my one and two quarter cents . May end up shooting yourself in the foot cus folks will be afraid they will be dissected on the forums after meeting you . I'm not sure if you are being passive aggressive and hoping the people you are starting these threads about see it or what. I just personally feel it is a bad idea

ubergigglefritz

This is why we have problems. People can't read minds, yet people expect them to, because they are incapable of communicating their wants, needs, and boundaries. Frankly, it's one of the many purposes for a professional. 😇 All the work I've done with people just practicing asking for what they want, saying "no," etc. It's hard for a lot of people, and particularly scary doing it in a vulnerable situation. I've grown IMMENSELY in this area just being a professional, my ability to communicate consent (or lack thereof) and boundaries is so much imprived in my day to day life and is incredibly impactful, and I hear lots of stories of other professionals who are terrible at it (which only worsens the client's issues with this stuff). Anyway, it's a skill many are lacking, but you should never use that as encouragement to be more pushy or do things opposite of what people say.

geoff1000

Part of the difficulty may be that vocalising a want to someone, then increases the severity of the letdown if it : doesn't happen at all, doesn't happen exactly as you want, or doesn't stop when you want.

AshLewis

Hi Dave. I talked to a moderator and have decided to respond. The reason I mentioned I was kind of disappointed was that we had developed a list of things to do previously. I did not say anything because I felt you were very pushy, and opted to try to be accommodating, because you drove so long. Your pictures you sent me on Kik do not appear to be you in your profile picture, and thus I was incredibly more hesitant. I do not like confrontation and was hoping to just allow it to pass. In the park you had continually pushed me to talk about a subject I had mentioned and I had tried to not dwell on it, a subject which you brought up in conversation later to insult me. I did not wish to put my arm around you or play footsie, as i had not felt comfortable with my body position for the time being (I was in an awkward position laying on your chest and so it felt more awkward for my body for me to reach over all the way or play footsies). My only trouble is that you had opted to respond to me was upsetting in the sense I did not think it best to continue communicating. I had mentioned not liking the continued messaging on different platforms, and wanted to address it over Kik, the messaging app you requested we use. You had sent me another message over Cuddle Comfort, and via Text message, thus me mentioning i did not feel the greatest with the conversation across several platforms. Furthermore, I wanted to make it clear my intention of not feeling comfortable, and thus let you know the situation of me not feeling comfortable continuing to talk. I did not like how you spoke to me, and it was not very appropriate when I chose to be kind. I understand if my wording in my message perhaps came off bad. We had agreed on sharing space, and relaxing. I was fine with that. It was when the plan shifted to driving around that i got uncomfortable as i was not in a familiar setting. I chose to let you know my feelings of the situation instead of ghosting you, and trying to communicate with you.

I know you cannot read minds. Nobody can. But it is also hard for me to understand why you would begin to swear at me when it was not warranted, especially sending me a text message after the fact. I am not trying to start drama. The mod has approved me to respond. I have been told i am allowed to attach messages to show my side of the story and have blurred out your information as recommended by the mod, in addition to me not wanting to share your personal information. I understand your lack of communication, but I had mentioned in response i was working on it. I am not blaming you for anything. However your reaction was not appropriate. I also wished you the best, and wished you had a wonderful weekend. I still wish you the best, and do not have any ill feelings, however have opted to reply as I feel my side of the story deserves to be shared. It is not fair to be talked bad about and not be able to respond with your side of things. I hope you have a wonderful week, David, best wishes.

Pic #1 messaging me over kik

Pic #2 Agreeing on time, and you asking how I felt. My beginning response.

Pic #3 My response
![](https://i.imgur.com/7qq

Pic #4 your response then and my last response

azuj.jpg)

Pic #5 Your response then, opting to use part of the conversation we had, of which you pushed me to share.

Pic #6 The text message I got.

Well, the above certainly puts a new spin on things. Communication is for sure a massive potential issue but when someone isn't feeling comfortable enough to express themselves properly due to circumstances as appears to be the case then that's another matter entirely - that's not a communication issue. Being downright abusive to someone via text though I'd absolutely count as one.

pmvines

@davebutton So then if the thread indeed was started as a passive aggressive means to get attention of intended target, it seems it indeed worked . Great job. Also great job with lashing out in a hurtful entitled manner because you didn't get your way and the other person didn't behave how you wanted them to . And then you whine about how you were treated unfairly? Have you read the messages you sent her ? Cus I just did, and you are a bully who deserves zero sympathy
Perhaps the reticent behavior is due to something you did ? Regardless, people have a right to change their minds and nobody really owes you anything. You act like a childish brat towards her, start a thread rant about it , tell her to grow up while hurling insults and curses, yet she is the one who managed to handle this with maturity, grace, and dignity .....

ubergigglefritz

There are always two sides to every story for sure. Thanks for sharing your side @AspinL 😊

SweetCamiXO

VinDin

@davebutton i can understand why you might feel hurt or insulted. I do not feel it was appropriate to curse and personally attack a woman who was shy and was neither rude nor disrespectful towards you.

You have some issues you need to deal with that have nothing to do with @AspinL

Get some help. You need it.

pmvines

@davebutton I also want to point out that you are 42 and she is 19 . You are old enough to be her father and you are behaving this way and saying these things ? Shame on you !! You should know better !

dharma1257

Pmvines this is the second time in a short while i am calling you on your harshness and judgemental tone. I will not call you again on it but you might want to take a look at yourself in a mirror before judging others and condemning them. Aspin herself still wishes Dave well and seems more understanding. I am glad she came forward and both sides were heard. We are all human and have issues and things to work on. Lets all remember to have love and understanding for each other.

pmvines

You are right @dharma1257 I am being harsh with this person . I feel he needs to be admonished for his behavior. I realize you may disagree with how I have done it and I respect that. I have no sympathy for bullies and he is old enough to be her father . Perhaps I am influenced by the fact that my son is also 19 , and I can imagine how angry I would be if someone my age said those personal, hurtful things to him He doesn't get my sympathy. But I hear you and understand your side .

snuggleme123

Thank you @AspinL for standing up and speaking out. The responsible way you have handled this is a great example of your character. You must be an amazing person! I hope you have much better experiences here down the road.

snuggleme123

Thank you to the mods for helping @AspinL and allowing the light to shine over this dark act and expose it for all to see.

dharma1257

pmvines, i was just coming back online to edit my post, as to not single you out, but you read it and responded and dont seem to mind it, so i will leave it as it is. I will try to stay out of your business in the future, it is not my place to keep asking you to look at yourself or others to do the same. So sorry for singling you out, that is wrong on my part, even though it is meant because i care.

This is a crazy time here in USA and i am especially aware of judgements and condemnations of people, including myself. I was on a Buddhist forum and i thought all views, opinions were welcome, well i found out that is not the case and i was banned for sharing and holding a mirror up to some others who seemed blind in their views.

I used to post a lot on here in the forum and read a lot but for months now have hardly read and hardly participate now due to the atmosphere i feel is here. I find it harsh and judgemental and lacking loving and caring and understanding for where we are all at.

Dave the Original Poster, hopefully learns something from this thread, but i feel there is a way to go about it that is kinder and more loving and caring to try to help him out and also not to demonize or attack him in the process. He is human and made a mistake, error probably, might regret reacting and saying what he said to her, because he possibly felt hurt in some way by her. She shared her side and even wished him well, so it is handled well by Aspin as snuggleme pointed out.

One last thing, many on this site are lonely or hurt in many ways, might be socially awkward, etc, please give some slack to them, have more empathy and understanding and try to see both sides, before judging them so quickly or condemning them. They might do wrong things, but give them a chance to learn from it and grow and become a better more balanced human being, and not quick to just crucify them or want them banned, etc. Every one deserves love and respect and understanding.

snuggleme123

@dharma1257 The righteous indignation in @pmvines post is warranted in this case. He is not condemning Dave for life but condemning his actions in this instance. Dave's actions in this need to be called out so that he can hopefully grow from it as well as support @AspinL. In light of this you have to wonder about the other rants. There is always the other side to the story.

pmvines

@dharma1257 I respectfully disagree with you about this. I do hope this isn't a reflection of how this person usually is I only have what I see to go on and what I see is rather disturbing. The way he treated this person and spoke to her and the way he portrays himself as a victim and casts a net hoping for sympathy is not something that should go unnoticed . I am not being judgmental. I am reacting to behavior that is , in essence , just plain wrong. No judgment of mine, simply factual . Wrong is wrong and this is not opinion. Last thing I will say about this is that it was handled impressively by @AspinL . It is her honor that I am speaking for, however I don't feel she needs it because she has done a remarkable job speaking for herself so I will no longer be making this thread about my gripe with OP

dharma1257

snuggleme i hear you, but please be careful in accepting righteous indignation from anyone, and how to know when they are right and when they are wrong, when they judge a innocent person wrongly? He might be right in this case, but i guarantee you, he is not always right in his condemnations of peoples actions. Unless one is God or all knowing, one cannot know all the reasons why someone did what they did. It is a slippery slope when one becomes the judge, and jury of all. I have been on too many forums and have seen too many things, including banning the wrong people. I will leave it at that, but thanks for sharing.

AceCuddlerMike

@dharma1257 @davebutton

I mean, is there ever really justification to talk that way to a young lady? Walk away.

snuggleme123

@dharma1257 I get what you are saying about how things go to far and can be unfair, untrue, uninformed. However, you can condemn actions and not condemn the actor. if not corrected a child will almost always get worse not better and it does the kid no favors down the road. Adults are just older bigger kids. We all need called out sometimes cuz the laws of entropy suggest we wont generally get better on our own. Dave was operating in darkness that he thought was safe, then light was shown onto it. He got stung. Hopefully he will grow from it or at least learn from it. Thank you for your effort to keep things from getting out of control. IMHO, @pmvines did not get out of control. I wish you the best, thanks for respectful debating.

dharma1257

yes, thanks Snuggleme too. It is a pleasure to discuss with people who are willing to listen and discuss openly and sincerely. I hear all your points and see what you are saying .

I hope DaveButton can join in at some point and share if he learned anything from this or if he is sorry for some of his language towards her and maybe share a little why more he reacted the way he did. There is always a reason usually or a past hurt or something that causes us to react.

I am not defending Dave or condoning his actions, i just am hoping since it was brought out in the open by him and then so honestly by Aspin, that more honest, sincere discussion can take place. But maybe i am just a dreamer :-)

acecuddlermike, i am not defending his language towards her, i am just staying open to the fact that he reacted to her for reasons we dont know. She wishes him well still, so that is all i can go by. I have no hard and fast takes on this incident, i am not judging, i dont know enough, but yes i will say that harsh language on his part was indeed inappropriate and she has the right to never talk to him again, to just walk away and block him. But from personal experience, i have said or done things in the heat of anger and reaction that i didnt mean at the time, and luckily people accepted my apology or at least saw where i was coming from when i explained my reasons.

hugonehugall

Never forget the Yankees blew a 3-0 lead to the Redsox in '04 !

snuggleme123

So true!

MrKinder

As a majority of cuddlers and customers are basically strangers, the moment either party says to stop communication, then you must.
No "yeah, but" or "if I could only" or "but you didn't" - just stop. If you just stop, the problem is over. It's frustrating and it stinks, but continuing to communicate against their wishes crosses the line.

AceCuddlerMike

@dharma1257 Well I personally wouldn't consider vulgar harassment over multiple platforms spanning hours and days a knee jerk reaction, but rather outright rage that he was rejected, even though said rejection was done politely. And I doubt that she wishes him well after having been spoken to that way. Surely you've heard people say "have a nice day" when you know they mean "die, please". But I don't pretend to know Aspin's thoughts. Maybe she's actually an angel and meant it. Even that wouldn't make it ok for speaking to her that way and not one comment about this has been what I consider "too harsh" given the way he acted. Premeditated and prolonged harassment. One certainly has ample time to think while texting something that lengthy and before pressing send.

AceCuddlerMike

@hugonehugall …..yes, and that was extremely cool to see. I was in N'zerekore, Guinea, with a satellite dish : )