Man-man cuddling. (I’m not homophobic...)

b_link121

I’m sure this has been addressed in earlier posts, but I couldn’t find any. I’m curious what the opinions or feelings are, from women as well as from men, regarding man-man cuddling, in my case, a straight man with either a straight or gay/bi man. Obviously the intention of this cuddling is not sexual, so one would think that gender plays no role. But, probably for many differing reasons, I assume men are way less likely to be comfortable cuddling with the same gender as women are. In my case, I’ve never felt comfortable around males mostly because I relate much better to women and I never really had any male figures in my childhood that I trusted or was close to. But what do you all think? What might be other reasons for this? Is it a good idea to push the boundaries of comfort and try out cuddling with another man, maybe starting with just eye contact and holding hands and then moving on from there?

RainbowZebraSam

I think a big part of the reason straight men won't cuddle with other men is because they're afraid the other guy will be attracted to them... so basically the same reason why a lot of women feel uncomfortable platonically cuddling with men.

respectful

Here's a relevant thread (not to prevent any new discussion though!): Men who don't cuddle men, why not?

There's a brief summary of some people's responses too.

Personally, I think men would be a lot healthier physically and emotionally if they were comfortable sharing affectionate touch with other men.

People assigned female at birth, thanks to the way they're raised, hug and cuddle and don't even think about going further. I think this is great. Platonic touch for the win. So why should people assigned male at birth be raised to avoid it? [sigh, shrug] Beats me. It sucks to be taught (in a million subtle ways) that you can't get snuggly with someone without also having sex.

If you can get over those stupid, unhelpful lessons, I think you should go for it.

b_link121

Yeah... @DarrenWalker I think you are absolutely right. I’m disturbed when I really think about the divisions that are engrained in us growing up that are unfair or unreasonable. It’s just amazing to me that they have such a powerful affect. And, being the self-confident person that I am, I’m even more amazed that I am so much affected by it. I will also check out that thread, thank you. I guess part of trusting and being vulnerable is letting go of my fears in a safe setting and accepting the idea that men can be trusted. That’s what I hope women will think of me after all.

jaekast11

I love cuddling but I disguise it in the form of wrestling and football. #notonegayboneinmybody #ijustliketohug

@jaekas11 is laid out in the middle of the mat!

@chococuddles off the top rope!

ELBOW DROP!!!

psych.

It was a cuddle awwwwww.

(disqualified)

ColouredCrayons

It might be just me but somehow holding hands feels way more intimate than spooning especially when there is no specific reason for it (ie lost in a crowd). Think most people would agree eye contact is some next level intimate stuff if nothing is being said. Probably might want to start with hugs and leaning on somone's shoulder. Do whats comfortable for both of you but definitely give guys a try.

mickcuddle

@b_link121 Here’s what may be an unpopular explanation for some men’s reluctance to cuddle other men. Ask any professional massage therapist about the frequent occurance of male clients becoming physically aroused when there is no sexual intent from therapist or client. It happens. So many straight men fear arousal during a male-male cuddle session. The forum is full of commentary on the evil erection in male-female cuddles. You change positions,take a break, etc. But the fear that a similar physical maefestation during a male-male cuddle woud lead to some accusation of sexuality at the least, and some homosexual sex act at the extreme. The straight guy might even fear that he, the straight guy, would be the one who gets a random, unexplained erection. I get it. But if men would talk about it more, they might be able to find cuddle partners (THE most common complaint) and engage safely within everyone’s boundaries. I don’t expect it to happen.

b_link121

That’s very interesting. I haven’t thought about that point before. I don’t really fear that happening. I know that erections or arousal can happen for many innocent and non sexual reasons. I do think that fear of romantic or sexual intent being perceived is a big factor. As it’s been stated already probably many times, culturally we are taught, directly or indirectly, that if a man touches a man in a tender way then it is viewed as a homosexual act. But sexuality shouldn’t be an automatic assumption. Connection takes many forms.

TallMuscleGrad

Awesome post?. I am Straight and actively date women. For platonic cuddling purposes, I see no problem with being close to a man or woman. The feeling of another person being close to you feels amazing despite gender, from my point of view. I have positive experiences on and off of this site, with no gender preference type cuddling.

4cuddles

I also wonder if some men do not find/ think the physical make up of other man would be comforting to cuddle.

As someone who would prefer a cuddle with a bigger, taller person, to a smaller slim person. I wonder if some/ most men don't want to hug other men because they find the "softer" shape /feel most women have more comforting.

I prefer to cuddle women but it depends on the energy.

I'd rather cuddle a feminine smooth boy than a masculine gruff female.

I have no interest or find any appeal in cuddling someone as masculine as myself.

I'm a-ok with whatever that says about me.

mickcuddle

@b_link121 well said friend. One of the first thing my father taught me about the outside world is that you don’t speak with other men in the public washroom. And my dad was your typical small town guy. He spoke with everyone he passed on the street. But never in the can. It’s from lessons like these that we begin to learn skepticism over intimacy with men. But it wasn’t a bad lesson to teach a youngster. You want to keep your kids safe.

UKGuy

Heterosexual men are not socialized to touch other men. That's not going to change unless society changes. For women, it's much more socially acceptable. Hence the large percentage of straight women who have 'cuddles everyone' or 'cuddles only women' in their profiles.

b_link121

@4cuddles that’s a really good point. I definitely feel that men and women compliment each other and that feeling the embrace from the opposite gender, whether that’s from a loving parent, friend, spouse, is something we are wired to connect with. As someone who didn’t have a close relationship with my mother, I feel very very comforted to be accepted and touched (non sexually) by someone of the opposite gender. It feels like the accepting love that we are supposed to get as a child.

@b_link121: Then who am I supposed to give compliments to?

...Oh, never mind. It's not as though I have a gender anyway, so I suppose complimenting or complementing somebody "opposite" would be pretty well impossible in any case. Maybe that's why I'm not wired to connect with feeling the embrace (whatever that means) from any specific a/gender!

Could be.

chubbybunny

Isn’t the point of this site is it’s not sexual?? So there shouldn’t be any problem with same sex cuddling. The only reason you wouldn’t want to cuddle someone is if their body type isnt comfortable to you personally (jabbing bones, rock muscles) or if you don’t click with them as someone you can get along with.

UKGuy

@chubbybunny - read my last post again. Heterosexual men are not socialized to touch other men. Whether it's platonic or sexual makes NO difference. Maybe you cannot understand that because you're a woman and are socialzed completely differently.

b_link121

@DarrenWalker well I suppose it depends on what kind of complimenting you are talking about. In a strictly biological sense, men and women are able to reproduce. A sperm and an egg produce a baby. Speaking romantically, each person chooses who they wish to be with and compliment. For me, a straight man, that would be a straight woman. I think ideally we are supposed to be able to receive affection and intimacy from childhood from our parents, whatever their gender. But depending on how our brain is wired or what our sexual orientation is, we prefer the intimacy of one gender over the other. That’s my opinion anyway. I didn’t mean to imply that only straight men and women are able to compliment someone else. That’s just what the case would be for me.

b_link121

@chubbybunny when I think of how fulfilling and warm and blissful it would feel to embrace and be tenderly embraced or my hair stroked or my face touched softly by someone of the opposite sex, it is not for sexual or romantic reasons that it would have that effect on me. I strongly desire the company and friendship of kind warm hearted women and to be honest I don’t know if it’s something anyone can really quantify completely. Could be our childhood, personal experiences... even though it’s platonic interaction, it could biologically in our brain wiring have something to do with our sexual orientation. I think the point is that the type of people that we feel most comfortable with, and like you said, who we click with as someone we can get along with varies from person to person, maybe a majority of the time it varies from gender to gender or sexual orientation to sexual orientation. (I have no idea about the last two by the way, I could be conpletely incorrect.) We all need to connect with others and I think it’s important to be balanced and connect with all types of others. But physical touch is a very special thing and I think maybe it’s important to listen to what our heart is driving us towards for the most part. That way we can have the most fulfilling and comfortable experience and connection.

b_link121

@UKGuy I totally get what your saying and I think you may be right about socialization. But it does seem a bit rude to say someone can not understand something because of their gender or how they were raised... Maybe it is just a matter of semantics but I felt I ought to address it since I started this post... I don’t want things to turn negative. We are all here for positive vibes and to grow.

@b_link121: Well, when it comes to complimenting people, I think there are three basic ways of going about it: you can compliment someone's personal appearance, their personality, or their skills. Formulating the compliment's usually pretty easy for me—it's the delivery that tends to trip me up.

[cough]
More seriously....

As a straight man, it makes sense for you to feel that men and women naturally complement each other, and that feeling a connection to someone of the opposite sex when they embrace you is something we're all wired for. Thanks for not insisting that has to be the case for everyone!

@UKGuy: Aren't men socialized to see intimate touch, like cuddling, as either sexual or "platonic" (meaning "leading-to-sexual")? Actual platonic touch isn't really a thing for men... is it?

BlueIris

@DarrenWalker Ten points for knowing the difference between compliment and complement.

b_link121

@BlueIris I’m so disappointed in myself right now... lol.
@DarrenWalker Yeah, even feeling a connection when embraced is probably different for each person. For some it’s the opposite sex, some it’s the same sex, some it’s both, ideally if we are talking about true platonic connection we should all be able to experience that freely with all people, but unfortunately we’re all messed up and broken. But yeah, I guess I feel that the type of connection that happens in my mind with platonic cuddling isn’t romantic or strictly friend...ic... friendic? friend-based. I feel that there’s an area of intimacy and trust that is not romantic or sexual, but can exist outside of those circles. Maybe it’s similar to the joy and pleasure some feel from holding or cuddling with their favorite animal. (I am NOT calling anyone an animal. This illustration probably gonna be misinterpreted...) What I mean is that most of the time I wouldn’t really describe a relationship with a pet a friendship, maybe. Definitely not if it is a random animal, not a pet. Yet we feel fulfilled and happy when we hold it and cuddle it. We get something non sexual but very pleasurable from it. It feeds our soul. The difference with people is that it’s two-way. We give and receive that feeling which makes it that much more fulfilling. I don’t think it’s bound to just being the opposite sex that gives us that feeling, regardless of sexual orientation. But I do think many if not most people, only feel it with one gender. I really don’t know why. Maybe our upbringing. But it does seem to be true that often, daughters feel closer to the father and sons feel closer to the mother, or want to anyway... who knows why.

Yay, I got points! Thanks, @BlueIris.

Also, as @me2 once linked, while men might not be comfortable touching one another these days, that wasn't always the case. Whether or not a thing is seen as sexual (or leading-to-sexual, à la The Physical Touch Escalator) makes a difference.

b_link121

@DarrenWalker What do you mean “that was not always the case”?

PaulaDahla

Looking at jackast11 & @chococuddles earlier replies let me tag in @darrenwalker (hey guys).

I assume to believe what Darren meant by that was that in earlier days, times before the internet and national connectivity and even earlier like the days of knights/crusaders or gladiators/wars or even our current military men touched each other often and closely. These men understood the basics of humanity - that need to touch, to be close to another soul who isn't trying to hurt or threaten you.
They slept together, eat together, groomed and passed gas together, they were injured & healed with help from other men. When a man is faced with fear, hardship, loneliness, or any other emotions not typically considered manly it's noticeable by the other men around him and they also see how he deals with it. Often those guys need him to have their back, their lives may depend on him being 'good'. That creates a close emotional bond. Even in colleges/universities and sports teams today you see the emotional bond.

Trust me our recent asexual/bisexual/pansexual/cis words and definitions aren't new either. In fact the best shamans were often bi or asexual. Those identifiers have been around since Adam and Eve. Men didn't care because they saw the personality/ability and character of the man. He was accepted and an equal member according to his strengths and abilities just as men still are today.

Those men had to be close for survival, sharing blankets for warmth, being naked and spooning for survival, holding another as he grieved for a loss, or just 'lost it', carrying him to safety. Happiness, fear, grief; all emotions experienced in an all male group fostered that very closeness. When you have no one else that man or men standing or kneeling next to him was at least a friend who understood.

So yeah, earlier times men had no problem being vulnerable with each other. It was okay to be emotional; to touch another man. Get comfort from another guy. Adrenaline has a way of removing social awarkwardness.

Tagging back out @darrenwalker

b_link121

Yeah, that all makes sense. I think circumstantially, nowadays we have less reason to touch physically. We are taught directly and indirectly that connection and vulnerability are weakness. And the fact that we are given almost anything we could need at the click of a button definitely hinders interpersonal reliance and connections resulting from that.

Other than that though, I can’t think of many ways different to now in which men used to touch each other just by pure choice. Admittedly, probably less men do it, but I don’t imagine many men used to cuddle for comfort with other men back in older times. I could be wrong, I’m not very culturally educated.

b_link121

I do know that in other cultures it is more socially acceptable or even accepted that men hold hands or kiss cheeks or something, which I think is great. There’s no reason that it should be seen as wrong to hold a mans hand except that as stated it is ingrained in us that holding hands is only done as a phase of dating or expressing romantic compnionship.

I was in sports year round for many years and there was a certain level of closeness, intimacy (showered together but not together), and a certain level of love for my brothers in battle (football, track, wrestling) but it's possible to fight alongside someone and still never want to cuddle or snuggle up with them. I've wrestled with good friends in practice, went out drinking and had plenty of laughs and shared some intimate details but I never had any desire to cuddle with them.

When we would run out to the mat to face our opponents in wrestling the head coach would shake our hands firmly and slap us on the butt on our way out.

To me it's not about being vulnerable but just being honest with yourself. Comfort can be found in many ways with a variety of people but I don't comfort or find comfort in everyone the exact same way.

No amount of history or social enlightenment will change that.