The government things that by putting Everyone on lock down that this virus will somehow leap it's not going to leap will it slow it down sure may be temporarily but once we go back im sure we will have more people contracting the virus, If everyone is watching the news you will notice there it's still happening whether the restrictions are lifted or not no matter what the season it may be
@MissAdventurous not sure where you got the 200k dead Americans it stands at 63,000 right now. My 2 cents, you will always be taking a risk no matter what, just practice good hygiene. Wash hands and possibly wear masks. Other than that it’s just someone’s word.
@toaskornot "the virus is not going anywhere ever" "Ever" is a long time. Smallpox has been eradicated.
Before the contraceptive pill, people used condoms to prevent pregnancy. After HIV / AIDS, people wear them again, this time to prevent illness. We will probably need a new "normal".
There are many diseases around the world, with different risks ; what was special about Covid-19, is that it had a long incubation period, so symptoms weren't quick to develop. Many of the diseases in the world are localised by climate, Covid-19 doesn't seem to care very much.
I read somewhere that more Americans have now died from Covid-19 than in the Vietnam War, and that's with the lockdowns in place. Without them, the death toll would probably have been higher than the Second World War.
Open up the economy.
All these comments saying open up the economy have nothing to do with the question of this post.... can the moderators please mute the trolls?
I have put a lot of thought into this and these are some of my ideas. 1. Like other have said frequent showering and clothing changes and hand washing. 2. Regular testing for both Covid-19 and its Antibodies 3. Limit the number of clients you see and only see clients who are working from home and social distancing and have not been feeling sick or around anyone who had been sick. 4. Avoid close face to face contact where we would be talking and breathing into eachother’s faces.
As for the whole vaccine debate, I am very skeptical of a safe and effective vaccine coming out in the foreseeable future and I think having a check box of whether or not someone has gotten the vaccine is a huge invasion of privacy not to mention it would be difficult to verify. Covid-19 is in the same coronavirus family as influenza and the common cold. Influenza’s vaccine is often less than 50% effective and its reduces effectiveness within weeks and there is no vaccine for the cold. I believe that we will develop herd immunity within months of lock down ending and that with time the virus will mutate to become less deadly so it can spread more effectively.
It's good to see the Koreans are maintaining Social Distancing, while continuing their daily routines. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52518844
@xandriarain - The test for the active virus and the test for antibodies are two different tests and the tests are expensive. I don't think anyone is going to do that on a regular basis. And the very act of getting tested further exposes you to the virus. Where I live, you cannot get tested unless you are showing symptoms and a medical professional authorizes a test.
Vienna Airport is offering a test to inbound passengers who want to avoid two weeks of quarantine. The cost is 190 Euros = about 210 US dollars.
This rather spoils the idea of checking each morning if one is safe to go to work.
@xandriarain Thank you for your thoughts! I'd love to hear more concrete ideas like that from others. I'm with you on the vaccine piece, I've never once gotten the flu vaccine and I'd really only consider the Covid-19 vaccine if it's mandated by the government (as I said in an earlier post their is speculation they may try to make this the first vaccine that is an absolute requirement to get, I don't agree with forcing it on people but we may have to deal with that). As for the vaccine check box idea on profiles, perhaps we could make it an optional thing that you could opt into including if you wanted too. As for regularly getting the Covid-19 test and anti-body test, that would certainly be ideal down the road when the Covid-19 test is more accessible. With the anti-body testing I think we'd have to wait until they can fine tune the test to be more accurate. It seems right now the anti-body tests sometimes have false-positive results, which gives people hope they have some level of immunity to it when the may not, for this reason most American insurances don't cover the anti-body test yet either. Like @UKGuy said, the tests are expensive and not affordable unless insurance pays for it.
@MattsWeather for the enthusiast cuddler, or the occasional client the cost of regularly getting testing is probably not worth it but for a full time pro its much cheaper to pay for a test on a regular bases and be able to work full time than it is to stay home and not work at all.
@xandriarain Good point! Though, if you have a client that hasn't had the vaccine and hasn't recently or hasn't ever been tested for Covid-19 or the anti-bodies would you decline to have a session with them? Like you said clients/enthusiasts likely won't invest in being tested regularly.
I would not expect clients to get antibody testing or COVID-19 testing and the vaccine is a long way away. I would ask my clients the following questions. 1. Are you working from home or going to a physical location. 2. If you are working in a physical location how many people are around and what precautions are you taking? 3. Do you drive your own personal vehicle or do you take public transportation? 4. Have you been feeling sick or having any symptoms lately 5. Have you been around anyone that was sick or tested positive for Covid-19 6. Have you traveled recently 7. Are you attending social gatherings or are you still practicing social distancing?
On top of this I would try to keep a small inner circle of regular clients who made weekly or bi weekly commitments to see me and agreed not to see other pros.
@xandriarain The difficulty is that clients will typically give the "correct" answers ; being the answers most likely to achieve the outcome they want, rather than the accurate ones.
I'm reminded of the Ghostbusters scene ( not sure which movie ) where Sigourney Weaver asks Bill Murray "Are you the Key Master ?"
@xandriarain Good plan! Though @geoff1000 may have a point too. People may not be honest on some of the answers in order to get a session with you. Though @geoff1000 I would think that the vast majority of people would be honest because the majority understand the importance of being safe about this virus.
@geoff1000 that is why in the beginning when lock down is first lifted I will only be seeing my old regulars whom I have some trust with. On top of that get the testing because people lie.
@xandriarain This information about an antibody test looks promising : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52529294?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/coronavirus&link_location=live-reporting-story
@geoff1000 Cool! @xandriarain @MissAdventurous @SouthFlorida4U I'm also just thinking of how most states are going to have extensive contact tracing as part of their reopening plans. For example, if an active professional cuddler tests positive for Covid-19, then a contact tracer would want to know the identity of every client you've seen in at least the last several weeks. However, most pro cuddlers don't require you to show ID let alone keep a copy of an ID. So, unless you've exchanged phone numbers, you'd only be able to direct a contact tracer to look up specific users on this site in order for them to do their job, which doesn't seem sufficient. I feel like maybe when professional cuddlers resume in person it should be a requirement that they keep copy of a current state ID and a phone number for each of their clients in case it is needed. I also wonder about doing the reverse in the event that a client you've recently cuddled with tests positive for Covid-19 because they'd have to be able to give a contact tracer your information. Thoughts?
@MattsWeather I'm sure there are already many situations, where a person might want to keep secret, the people they have been meeting ; and I hope the contact-tracing mechanism would accommodate that, else people will simply not cooperate.
Perhaps it could be done by the infected person contacting the "secret partner" directly, who would then tell the contact-tracing team, "I might have caught it from someone, let's examine who I might have passed it onto".
I would certainly be very suspicious of a phone call out of the blue, saying "Someone you met recently has tested positive, tell me everyone you met in the last 2 weeks".
It is at least less concerning than a Sexually Transmitted Disease, which comes with an admission of infidelity.
How did this thread devolve I to a debate about the necessity and efficacy of vaccines Instead of a conversation on post covid cuddling best practice?? I was actually Interested in what ppl had to say along those lines. Stay on subject or change the header please
@Zeebie Post-Covid-19 cuddling best practice will be determined by what the law says we can do, and in turn what preventative measures are available ; just as Post-HIV casual sex usually includes wearing a condom, Post-Covid-19 cuddling is likely to be determined by vaccine availability and effectiveness.
Many previously deemed "non-essential" businesses are reopening ; but with Social Distancing, which is awkward for a business which fundamentally involves physical contact.
My feeling is that professional cuddling, unlike say hair-dressing, is so rare that governments won't consider the rules around it when they publish guidance ; so we'll have to extrapolate from something similar.
I think the only way I would feel safe is for both of us to go and get tested together !!!! here in Fl, the drug stores are going to have drive thru test stations, not sure how that is going to work, or how long to get test results back. One place here was saying 30 min's, that would be great. At my age and the fact I had double pneumonia once many yrs. ago, I just will not take a chance.!!!! Thanks to all who post, I like reading all the posts, stay SAFE
@Zeebie I hear you, I would have liked to have more of a focus on what can be done within an actual session. Though, if you scroll around on the two pages of comments we have so far there are a few entries with practical suggestions on what could be implemented within session. However, like @geoff1000 said, everything else that has been discussed on this forum does relate to cuddling because all of these issues are interconnected. While lots of people don't like to talk about vaccines because it is such a divisive issue, I think it's important to address with respect towards the variety of beliefs/opinions out there. Some may refuse to cuddle with someone who has not had the vaccine and others might not care so much about that, it's all fine and valid, we just have to do our best to address it all. @waynewv Thanks for your thoughts and the information.
Some countries are "pool testing", where several samples are combined, and tested as one ; which can report that some / none of the patients have it. If the infection rate is say 1 %, 10 samples could be combined. 90% of the time, this would show all patients are clear, and only 10 %of the time it would prompt individual testing.
Such a testing method might make it financially practical for all the members of a cuddle party just before a session, or a group of pro- / enthusiast-cuddlers on a regular basis, to check that they are all currently clear.
It could be done for a group of co-workers, or a class of children, or a family ; and as the cost / test reduces, this would further help to reduce the cost per person tested.
@MattsWeather Are we seriously planning on doing contact tracing manually in this country? 🙄 It could be automatic and instantaneous if we used our phone's Bluetooth abilities. Manual tracing is ridiculous and incredibly inefficient and inaccurate. Sorry. It frustrates me, lol. We could all reopen so much faster and more safely if we had a thorough contact tracing mechanism in place and I've always known Americans would never agree to the technology other countries are using. 😞
@ubergigglefritz The UK is working on a contact-tracing App based on Bluetooth, but it has limitations ; some people spend several hours a day in close proximity to their neighbours, through the brick wall that divides their semi-detached houses, and cannot catch the virus from them.
Similarly, if someone uses an ATM, they might catch the virus from previous users ; but I use the end of a biro to press the keys of the machine, instead of my fingers.
Contact tracing has to know exactly what you did, not just where you were. I think the Bluetooth Apps only say that you were recently "for a sustained period close to" someone who tested positive, they don't say the specific event. Even occupants of cars waiting next to each other at traffic lights, or driving in adjacent lanes, could trigger a "proximity flag".
No contact tracing method will be perfect ; and it is only practical once the percentage of infectious people in a community becomes low enough, that each one identified can be followed up.
Humans being what they are, will have "unconscious bias" ; in this case skewing the decision on if "contact" occurred, depending on if they want to isolate or not. They might be keen to go to work, or looking for an excuse to not go to work ; or paranoid / reckless about the guilt of perhaps passing the virus on to someone else.
My personal concern is when two pedestrians briefly pass, changing their route to stay just outside the 6 feet social-distancing range, and shout "Thanks !" at each other. Given that the virus is transmitted by exhaled particles, this must be more risky than passing closer in silence, or even holding one's breath for a few seconds. A Covid-19 thumbs-up would be better, but no official guidance mentions that.
Whether to open up the economy or close the economy for a longer period of time it won't make a difference, people are still contracting the virus and people are still passing away,whatever the government decides to do the virus is here to stay till theres a vaccine for it..so all these businesses thatcare still closed or partially open you are not making the virus go away in no way ,shaoe or form not even slow it down
Any form of automatic contact tracing will never work in a free society. People won't agree to have their every movement tracked. I won't load any such app onto my phone and no-one can make me. And not everyone takes their phone with them everywhere they go anyway. When I go out for a walk, I leave my phone at home and when I drive somewhere, I often leave my phone in the car when I reach my destination.
I don't know that would want my movements tracked, I got friends in some pretty low places ....
@toaskornot The UK scientific opinion is that with "normal" life, each person would pass the virus on to 3 other people ( Transmission Rate R = 3). With lockdown, this has become just less than 1. I think of a society where each couple has on average just less than 2 children who go on to have children ; it would eventually die out.
The same UK scientific option estimates that 4 % of the UK population has already had the virus ; say 2 to 3 million, and about 30,000 i.e. 1 % of them, have died from it.
We could not allow the virus to go unchecked, and hence lose 1 % of our population ; and the rate would in any case be much higher than 1 %, because there would be too few hospital beds for all of them.
However, if 4 % of the population has now had it, and IF that gives them sustained natural immunity, the transmission rate R, in any scenario, is reduced by that percentage. Over time, this increasing "herd immunity" starts to have a significant effect on the R value, particularly because a small proportion of people do most of the spreading.
A vaccine is ideal ;but more effective treatments, and something to block transmission ( as we have for HIV ) may be equally effective. In fact, given that some people will refuse vaccination and some won't benefit from it ; we need that "defense in depth".
While the rate is still quite high, I think I would be more comfortable if I was not relying on one method.