I mostly agree about PR, but this is a forum of people who have already come together on the interest of cuddling. I think people on this website, particularly pros, can be way too quick to judge sometimes and silence any conversation of this type, which only closes communication and teaches people simply to not mention it. You think that sounds good, but actually results in professionals putting themselves in a more dangerous situation. Do you know how many people I've seen over two years who thought this was sex? One. And that was my own fault because the situation caused me to go lax on screening. Encouraging people to feel comfortable communicating is key to everyone understanding exactly what this is, and everyone (professionals and enthusiasts) to stay safe. Yet again, we just disagree. Even with PR, you have to understand your audience. Or maybe I suck, lol. But if I were doing a news piece for college students, you KNOW their mind is going to go right in the gutter, so better to put it out in the open and explain what it is and is not and the boundaries involved. If you don't bring it up, they're just going to assume and go into the situation with that assumption. But I'm tired, ha. We just aren't seeing eye to eye... 😇
My policy has always been to try to treat people as they wish to be treated ; and when dealing with a large group, err towards the feelings of the most sensitive.
1) That cuddle curtain, you can only use once! Or you'd have to disinfect the one side of it for each use... (of a new person)
2) I know on here, there is a avoidance of the PR word due to the fact that it's illegal in some places, etc. (And I can't remember all the details) but even personals had to be removed from Craigslist for fear of lawsuits, etc. So you don't talk about it. I knew someone that worked in the industry years ago... and in all honesty, some people weren't looking for anything sexual. They were just looking for what we are all looking for... Attention? Someone to be there? talk to? a hug? to be held? That was where they knew they could go.
In some aspects it's the same idea. Being there for another person. Professional Cuddlers just have a hard line set on the "Intimacy" category. (You could put a counsellor into the same concept. Their physical intimacy line, is even less than a Pro Cuddler. But how deep they may go in a mental health, behaviour, etc conversation would be deeper than a Pro Cuddler. )
@ubergigglefritz But if I were doing a news piece for college students, you KNOW their mind is going to go right in the gutter, so better to put it out in the open and explain what it is and is not and the boundaries involved.
laughs totally. Being able to have an open and honest conversation about what it is, and what it is NOT... AND being able to still have that conversation during if you're ever unsure of 'where the line is', etc.
@Dante_S My goal is to encourage open communication and never encourage someone to question whether they should ask or say something, worrying they might get kicked out of a session (anything that would cause that is usually brought up in advance and they never end up seeing me in the first place), get in trouble, or that I might judge them. That keeps communication open, which helps keep me safe and the client more likely to be happy if they decide to do a session. Communication, acceptance, and firm boundaries are all so important in this work...
@ubergigglefritz You're amazing
@ubergigglefritz One of the few people on these boards who thinks rationally and makes sense.
☺️ I'm not perfect by any means, but thanks for the recognition. I feel seen. Can't wait to get back to in-person connections. 💜
I have been thinking about this myself. Overs, I miss cuddling but at the time it’s not safe to do so and my bed feels empty at times.
I’m working from home so that’s a plus on my side, thinking about other safety measures however, washing hands is of course a must, I also take a full shower before I cuddle a few hours before my session. Do we wear clothes that cover our legs and all skin? There are times when I enjoy wearing shorts.
These are some of the questions I have in mind.
@Dante_S I liked your point that a counsellor, or a pro-cuddler can have a very strong emotional connection ; which takes effort. It is probably similar to a "method" actor, suffering the same emotional effect as if they were actually enduring the events of their character.
I'm reminded of Hannibal Lecter talking with Clarece Starling in "Silence Of The Lambs" ; through a solid physical barrier, but nevertheless having a very strong emotional effect on her.
A very good counsellor can similarly be very beneficially effective, without any physical contact ; and I suspect that in some cases, good pro-cuddlers have been effective "remotely" during the Covid-19 lockdowns, because physical contact is often only a small part of the process.
@geoff1000 Thanks I think the big part is just enabling the other person to feel 110% comfortable with you. Most people are scared to open up, and be their authentic self. (And when cuddling, that might be feeling lonely, sad, hurt, depressed). Especially with men... we're not "suppose to feel emotions". So, just having a place you feel you CAN be sad, and not be judged, can mean the world. While cuddling feels amazing! I think sometimes, that's just a bonus if you're with the right person. The rest of the (stupid, annoying, stressful, judgemental, full of hate) world... can just disappear.
I've had friends... dates... cuddle sessions... Tell me things that they've told NO one, and afterwards tell me "Woah, I can't believe I told you all that... I haven't told anyone... I just felt really comfortable with you" I generally don't even 'ask' too much... I can't explain it, other than I enjoy understanding and hearing others stories.
I'm not a counsellor (hah, far from it), but a lot of us do more telling than listening =/
@Dante_S I was a part-time taxi-driver for a while, and the conversation would sometimes go along the lines of : Me. Rough day ? Passenger. I don't want to talk about it. Then out it all came . . .
I can understand why people who work in "pastoral care" find it so addictive.
I have been thinking about using face shields during sessions. You can make a diy face shield out of of a headband and a plastic page protector for very cheap. Unlike a mask they do not press up against your face or muffle speech and most likely easily to breath in and you can see the person’s entire face through the plastic. The only issue is laying on your side might be difficult but its hard to say without testing it out. Any thoughts?
I just don't think cuddling with a face shield would be very fun at all. I love it when my cuddler and I take turns nestling our heads in eachother's necks/shoulder. Its soooo comforting. A face shield? I mean it would just keep bumping into eachother with it and it would just make the whole thing seem ridiculous.
If one has to wear a face shield to cuddle then it isn’t safe to cuddle. I wouldn’t even consider paying for a cuddle if I had to wear a shield. I cuddle to relax and recharge, not to suit up for a NASA space mission.
@FunCartel Seconded 👍
My feeling is that part of the emotional benefit of cuddling, comes from the fact that one is letting down one's physical guard ; and / or that another person, is letting down their physical guard. I get that psychological reward when someone in the passenger seat falls asleep while I'm driving, even though there is no contact.
I think I would get more out of a "cuddle" which took place at a social distance of 6 feet, than with physical contact but face-shielded.
Having said that, if the distance is intended to separate the mouths and faces of the parties, would proper social distancing rules allow actual contact between bare feet ; if the parties were for instance sitting / laying down in a public park ? Most adults have an outside leg measurement over 36 inches.
"Cuddling" via video, also has a physical barrier ; but that is offset by the saved commuting, and explained by the physical distance. Another idea would be cuddling in scuba gear, while under the sea ; I've heard of wedding ceremonies being conducted this way.
I like the idea of a "cuddle curtain" when one party is especially vulnerable, or even has an illness ; but having a barrier just in case, rather negates the idea of cuddling. That would be like knights shaking with their left hands, so they can continue holding a sword in their right.
Tested positive for antibodies!
@Ironman294
I've seen that test mentioned in the news, but without much detail.
Was it a one-off test, or part of a medical trial ?
Have they told you if that result means you are immune, and if so for how long ?
Was there a time when you thought you had the symptoms, so self-isolated ; or might you have passed it onto someone, while you were infected but asymptomatic ?
Are you planning on doing anything differently, on the basis of the result ?
@geoff1000 I'm curious about your other questions, but they still don't know about future immunity if you have antibodies or how long they will stick around. Unfortunately. That's one thing they hope to learn from conducting more antibody tesfing...
Lots of good conversation here.
I definitely agree that communication is so much more a part of a session than we think, and a good session is so much more than touch. That's one reason I don't take clothing requests and don't wear too revealing clothes. It doesn't cause my ideal clients to have a bad session, but it easily filters out my less ideal clients who feel little interest in cuddling with ME if they won't get as much skin to skin contact as they think they need.
In the beginning of the stay-at-home time, I felt like I could really help, just through texts and calls, bit haven't been doing as well later. This isn't because the lack of touch makes it useless, but I'm just not a big phone/video call person, so this isn't playing with my strengths at all. Also, with the added stress and inability to self-care and live as I usually do, a lot of my time and mental energy is being diverted. I'm also helping my parents with shopping and cooking, so I have another "part-time job" to be concerned with. Right now I'm focusing a lot of energy on doing everything I can to be ready to leave once I think I can. Everything is just Topsy turvy and crazy. Can't wait to get back to my old life, but also want to be safe about it. In addition to my life requiring a lot of planning to get back to it. I need to be all current with laundry, deliveries, stocked up, and this time before I leave, I'm hoping to get my RV washed, pet's dentals done, I forget what else, etc. I'm tired, ha.
So I would be less convinced a face shield would be worth the hassle. I like to say that the easier it is to breath, the worse something is doing at containing your particles. It would be awkward uncomfortable enough with a cloth mask. 😞 I could see the benefit of having a space with hanging plexiglass, if you are starting sessions before things are 100% safe, and that would make everyone feel more comfortable. That would allow "risk free" eye gazing while holding hands or something. I am considering reducing eye gazing or face to face cuddles in the beginning. Not sure. And that will be missed...
Similarly, how do you feel about cuddling with face masks? I can't decide. I don't want to wait until there is ZERO risk, but cuddling is one of the highest risk activities we can do (close contact for a long period of time which increases risk, but also only one other person which decreases risk). My health and livelihood will nearly 100% depend on my clients, since I have virtually no risky exposures outside of them. And getting sick hundreds to a thousand miles away from family would be far less than ideal. And of course, I don't want to be responsible for spreading the virus at all, let alone to people I care about, some of which are higher risk. We will be depending on each other to stay safe for two weeks prior so we can keep each other safe. But if you trust each other to do that, are masks necessary? Sigh. 😞 Thank for feedback...
@ubergigglefritz It is always a very difficult decision between : doing the job even when one isn't able to do it very well ( because of circumstances or distractions ) vs. not doing it at all.
Phoning and video-calling needs a stronger "presence effort" than a physical meet, which is why I can understand that is particularly more difficult at the moment. "Zoning out" for a second may not be noticeable during a physical cuddle, but it would probably spoil a virtual one.
I'm reminded of a scene in a Jason Bourne book, where a good friend is reluctant to help him, because he thinks he would do more harm than good. Only you can make that call, and part of being a professional ( anything ) is knowing when the counterintuitive is actually best.
I really hope, for you and all the pro-cuddlers out there ; that as the lockdowns slacken, the pent-up demand is released.
@xandriarain ,
Interesting idea, just wondering how it would affect the cuddling experience!?
@Lev136 yea its hard to say how it will impact the cuddling experience before trying it. I think it would be easier to have the face shields in some positions and others would be more difficult.
For some the shields may be a grim reminder of the pandemic while for others it would bring some piece of mind. I get why some others are saying they wouldn’t want to pay for a session with face shields.
I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how to safely resume cuddling because at this point I am running out of options and need to be able earn a sustainable income. The reality is that if someone is an asymptotic carrier no amount of showering, clean clothing, hand washing/sanitizing will stop the spread of the virus. If you are spending an hour or more cuddling with an infected person and have no barrier over your mouth, nose or eyes the chances of getting the virus are very high. Even without coughing or sneezing the virus can spread through talking. As a cuddling community we have to make a decision on how to move forward. We basically have three options.
A. Wait until the virus is completely gone and let the pros go without their livelihoods and the clients go without much needed touch. B. Use some kind of face protection and try to adapt so we can still have our needs met while keeping our risk lower. C. Use no face protection and just hope that no one we see has the virus and put ourselves in a very high risk situation.
In some areas the chance of catching the virus may be very low and maybe a mask or face shield seems extreme. For me personally I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia which was hard hit and most of my clients live in NJ and NY which is the epicenter of this pandemic.
It is not about the face shield; it is the fact that the only safe time to do it is not right now. A pro cuddler can always find another line of work, but they cannot find another life once they are dead. Same goes for enthusiasts. Everyone should consider their own breath as a possible instrument of death. You may be asymptomatic but your transmission to another could kill your loved ones days or weeks later.
I was reading a 1972 first-aid manual recently, and it said that between opening the sterile dressing, and applying it ; you should not cough, or talk. This recognises that talking is micro-coughing.
I don't understand why the social distancing guidance, doesn't tell people that it is rather foolish, at the point of closest approach, to point one's mouth towards the other person's face, and effectively cough at them ; by talking. That seems to mimic the proximity fuse of an air-to-air missile.
When having to get close to people, such as on a narrow path between hedges, or in a shop with narrow aisles, it is surely best for one person to stop and face away, while the other walks silently past. The verbal greeting can be done a dozen feet away.
Some cuddling positions are less face-to-face than others. For instance, spooning is less risk to the big spoon ; and a mirror some distance to the side would allow visual contact, while also not causing eye strain of being close up face to face.
A face shield is probably useful for physical health workers who spend short minutes facing a patient from a distance ; but cuddling is so sustained, usually in a confined indoor space, that I don't know if one would help very much.
Aircraft are criticised for recirculating most of the cabin air, with the result that illnesses are easily spread between passengers. The "common cold" and similar illnesses, are more prevalent in the winter, because people are more cooped up indoors. Perhaps it would help if the cuddling room was very well ventilatied, or it was done outside with just enough screening for modesty, while allowing the wind ( real or artificial ) to blow through.
Unfortunately, cuddling is such a "niche" activity, I can't see governments and scientists around the world, rushing to find ways to make it specifically safer.
Your options make sense . Overall, I don’t think that there is going to be an effective vaccine/treatment for some time. As an enthusiast who enjoys cuddling, want to make sure that I not my partner transmits the virus to the other. I’m waiting for the virus to calm down and move forward.
@FunCartel ,
Cuddlers might be able to find another line if work, but if have put in enough time into this and built up a business around it, would you want to change so fast?
Does anybody think social distancing would with in cuddling?
@Lev136 Explain to me how a dead person cuddles? That is the point I am making. I was comparing cuddling when it isn’t safe and pointing out the options. No one said starting a new business is ideal. But if the other option is dying or possibly killing others it becomes the ideal option.
I understood your point about others dying. Just asking if you would really want to stop cuddlers if it was part of your livelihood if you didn’t have to?
@Lev136 Kind of a ridiculous question to ask isn’t it if you understood what I was saying. What person wants someone to fail at their business? Makes me wonder if you really understood the point. Right now, if everyone really wants to be safe, you should not be cuddling. Other people in other industries have stopped so why should cuddlers be any different? No one wants anyone to stop but ethics and being a good human dictates it currently.