Just throwing it out there, if anyone suggests anything sexual, please report them so the mods can ban them.
Let me come from a place of someone who does both regularly. I have cuddled both. I even have karma from 5 or 6 enthusiasts and the rest pros. Yes, the enthusiasts are the best because it is always about pure joy and it is more balanced and reciprocal. But for me, pros are important too and I pay them for two reasons: 1) because I travel for work constantly they satisfy my need for convenience, perhaps on short notice, and 2) I am able, if I so desire, to turn myself completely over to them. I don’t have to worry if they like the position we are in or if their needs are being met. That sounds selfish and it is but it is my money and I am paying for them to cuddle on my terms (within TOS of course). Now if I really like them I will hold them, ask them what they like, and make it more balanced.
With that being said, there are bad enthusiasts out there. The ones that have left me karma have been amazing. But I have had one that smelled of cigarettes—badly and I had to invent a way to cut short our time and then the smell lingered in the sheets for days. Another was all about herself and just wanted to run the show entirely and had no concept of give and take. So like pros it is a mixed bag. I will say that when I write pros it is different than when I message enthusiasts. I am friendly and convey my information and my interest in a session to a pro but I am not as open from the start as I am an enthusiast. Why? Because you do have to put in more work and form a connection and trust with an enthusiast because they are getting a crap ton of messages from guys that do not want to form a connection, are too needy, too selfish or just think this is match.com. You have to find out what makes them tick, what their needs are, and even their back story. I usually know much more about an enthusiast than a pro and that is the difference. The difference is more about the human connection than actually cuddling and it will require more time and patience—things many guys consider work. This is just my experience and may not be representative of yours, although I do not believe I am far off from the reality of the differences between finding a pro and finding an enthusiast.
@FunCartel I agree with your post about messaging an enthusiast vs. a pro. However, I will add that it is difficult to get to know someone if they stop messaging you back. But perhaps there is something wrong with my approach. I checked my message logs though and many of the times I’ve been ghosted I was asking something about themselves in a respectful way. Also, I’d they never respond to your first message it makes it pretty much impossible to form a connection. But perhaps I need to make my first messages more appealing somehow, just at a little loss as to how to sometimes, there a have a been a few times some people shared what they thought a good first message was and I’ve tried using that a a template.
@sunnysideup You are focusing on the ones that don’t respond or stop messaging. That happens and you move on. I never said you won’t encounter rejection, ghosting or pure old fashioned preferences. I did say it takes time but meeting an enthusiast can happen.
And let’s back this up. Meeting an enthusiast and cuddling one requires empathy. Female Cuddlers get ghosted, rejected, body shamed, and experience unwanted sexual advances too so it works both ways. Sometimes being in the minority makes things worse.
In summary, patience, empathy and communication are the three big keys. Being angry and resentful only leaves you angry and resentful.
@FunCartel... I really like your perspective. You pretty much nailed it all.
I would say, without criticism, what you are looking for from this site and what it offers are two different things.
Forget the pro stuff for a minute-I am also not interested in professional sessions. But this site is explicitly non-sexual. Your focus on the appearance of your preferred partners indicates you are looking for something that is sexual, or could become sexual, or that would not matter at all.
Perhaps you would be more successful on a dating site.
@GracieGirl
none of the women on here want you to "lower your standards" to them, they're perfectly happy cuddling people who actually like them 🤗
Totally saw a mic drop here!
As far as expanding standards goes, I was on here for a few weeks before the community helped me realize that cuddling other men could be just as rewarding. My first meetup on here was with one of the nicest guys I've ever met. When we held each other, I realized how much extra connection I've missed out on with a lot of my male friends.
Mic drop joke aside, I sincerely hope you stick around and open your mind to what this community can provide.
I believe there is there is an undeniable problem here, and it can't be blamed solely on the men. What I have seen in these discussions over and over is men saying they don't understand why they can't find women to cuddle with, and people (both women and men) blaming them for their attitude, their approach, and even the way they feel about the problem itself. It's their fault for wanting satisfaction; it's their fault for wording their messages a certain way; it's their fault for wording their profile a certain way or having certain kinds of photos; it's their fault they feel the way they do, that they're too impatient, too demanding, too entitled, that they want more than cuddles, or even that they're "incel" or "manosphere" — my goodness! Something is wrong here, and it can't be blamed on just the men. And please let's not jump to conclusions and accuse them of the worst.
I could cite hundreds of these comments, but I'll just respond to a couple in this discussion. @natickben says "Your focus on the appearance of your preferred partners indicates you are looking for something that is sexual, or could become sexual, or that would not matter at all." Have you looked at the professional women's profiles? It astounds me what lengths they go to to make themselves physically appealing— wearing tight and/or skimpy clothing, showing off cleavages, posting full-body shots of their bodies in silhouette profile, posing seductively, pouting or wearing other glamour-puss expressions, wearing a lot of makeup, using "makeup" filters… why? [EDIT: Using your logic, one could ask,] If they don't want sex and they're not offering sex, why all the focus on their looks? Now, don't get me wrong. If they look like that and a man pushes boundaries, I would never say they were asking for it. I don't believe that. I believe a woman has every right to make herself as beautiful as she wants, and however she presents herself is in now way permission for anyone to abuse them. But why all the focus on looks? Answer me that. And don't get me started on how, if it's not about sex, 99% the vast majority of the people on this site are only looking to cuddle the opposite sex the gender they are sexually attracted to. I mean, if it's not about sex… ???
I really admired @FunCartel 's response of 5:00 AM (MST) — well-written, well said! — but at 5:38 AM (MST) he said "Being angry and resentful only leaves you angry and resentful." To me, that's emotion-shaming and emotion-blaming. I believe there is no such thing as a wrong emotion. I don't think men who can't find cuddles on this website can be blamed for how they feel about it. And it's not fair or reasonable to say that because they feel that emotion all they are going to continue to feel is that emotion. There is just too much of an ongoing phenomenon on this site for it to be blamed on what men are doing, saying, or feeling. Now, I'm not saying women are to blame, but can we stop shaming and blaming the men all the time? Men want cuddles; that's why they're here. Why are the women here? Why don't they complain about not being able to find cuddles? Is it that they think they want cuddles, but really don't? Or that they don't really want cuddles, but are looking for a relationship? Or that they want cuddles, but don't find any of their suitors appealing? Do they ever reach out to men and get rejected? Do they get all the cuddles they want, thank-you-very-much, and that's why they're not complaining? It's a mystery.
I would think it would be in this website's interest to do something to help alleviate the disparity between what people want from this site and what they're getting. Maybe an anonymous survey of why they joined, what they're looking for, what they're getting, whether they're not satisfied, and if not, what are they not satisfied with. There's an undeniable problem here, and whereas perhaps no one is to blame, the problem persists.
@FunCartel I hear you on that. But after a string of nothing but rejections for several months, I can't help but feel I'm doing something wrong, or something about me is off-putting, or worse, something about me that I can't change is something people can't accept. I have been talking to a couple of nice people recently so maybe that is turning around.
@natickben Interestingly, there was a thread on here a while back on the topic of attractiveness in a cuddler. Many people did not factor in attractiveness, but a large amount of posters also made it known that physical attractiveness was important to them in a fellow cuddler, and a majority seemed to believe that having this as a preference in a platonic cuddler was okay (as long as all intentions are platonic). I'd pull up that thread, but I forgot the title. Maybe someone else can link it?
@nurturingman You mistook angry and resentful. You can be that but if you show that, that is what you will be left with. It is not emotion shaming, it is reality. It is no different than controlling your sexual urges—they are there but you need to control them. If an enthusiast came across as that I would pass. It is my time as well and life is unfair to everyone, but it does not entitle you to a session with anyone if you act that way. Feeling and actions are two entirely different items.
@nurturingman Just a note to say that my mention of the manosphere was in response to a comment that seems to have been deleted that brought it up as a better approach for getting cuddles. Incel and misogynist are titles these groups claim for themselves, I wasn't calling anyone anything and I wouldn't. As for the rest of your post I don't really know where to start. You suggest the only reason women could possibly use makeup filters is to attract sexual partners and then think it's a mystery that women get put off from cuddling with men. Yet when women (and men) explain this 'mystery' they're described as attacking the poster or shaming/blaming. Women aren't exactly known for not wanting cuddles! There's only so much you can explain if people aren't willing to listen. Regardless of the difference in opinion, I appreciate that we're all discussing the problem; thanks for sharing and hope you find plenty of cuddlers 🤗
@ZacRedBear Thanks for the cheering section 🥳although tbh the only time I'm likely to drop a mic is quite literally and accidentally as I'm clumsy as balls!
@FunCartel The thing is the OP didn’t say what emotions he felt; you labeled them anger and resentment. I might label them bewilderment and frustration. We might both be wrong, though, because only the person who’s feeling emotions can label them or agree with the labels we suggest to them. It’s not up to us to label people’s emotions, and even if they do feel certain emotion they can overcome those emotions and move on. There’s nothing self-defeating about feeling one’s feelings— at least for a little while.
or even that they're "incel" or "manosphere" — my goodness!
@nuturingman The thing is though, these people literally are lurking these forums, sometimes contributing from time to time. It's been a problem for a while, and I don't believe it's unreasonable to conclude that some men (and women) are spending time in certain online echo chambers, or engaging in certain content (that's actually harmful and not conducive to them getting what it is they desire), and then bringing their festered opinions in here.
There was even some sort of Facebook group chat a couple years back that someone told me a member of this site invited them to, and what they did in this group was try to push the boundaries of people and see how far they could get them to go, sharing information about who is actually offering extras and... just really, really toxic garbage from what I was told. I have no idea if this group chat is still around, but it's one example of lurkers bringing that kind of incel/manosphere mentality in here and going with it. I know it's here because of the mainstream attention professional cuddling has received (LADBible, Fei Wyatt's appearance on KUWTK, VICE, and more). People who believe in these ideologies sometimes target our community, it's plain as day. Whether they're here or not though, these ideologies are getting broader and indeed influencing many people. All you have to do is a few deep dives into Google (sometimes not even that deep when we're talking about general subjects), or check the comments section of any mainstream news source that has reported on cuddling as a platonic activity.
I believe in being kind and giving the benefit of the doubt, but I am also a snarky personality. Some like it, some don't. I don't give a hoot either way; I have no control over how others perceive my words or self. Some of us are more blunt than others. I will own my bluntness, causticity, and any other perceived negative trait that I have and I won't apologize for it unless someone comes to me and explicitly says they are hurt. That would be me apologising for being me, and my authentic expression.
Now I have to look up “manosphere” lol
Edit: seeing as I’m the only that deleted a comment (which I said I would do as I didn’t know if the person was in the threads & left the comment up for half an hour) & looking up the meaning behind “manosphere” , its pretty disappointing to think that anything I wrote was, or would be considered: quote on quote -manosphere - …. If anything it was completely the opposite of that ,,, but 1 thing ive learned is that no matter what, someone will find a negative behind anything you do or represent no matter your intentions.
@cuddles_ndream No, no! That wasn't your comment @GracieGirl was talking about. Wow, I'm so sorry you thought that was yours! Your comment was just fine. The comment in question belonged to someone else, and it was blatant trolling.
I can't speak for all markets but in my area there are not many active female enthusiasts. Even a number of 'pros' appear not very active if at all. There is no training or fee for women to be a 'pro' here unless they actually get any paying clients which may help explain the lopsidedness. Last i checked men get charged $19.99 a month to be a 'pro'. Figure out what you want and move on from there.
All I know is I'm now checking to see how long it will take me to drive to Canada so I can possibly meet @catloaf... She's cool! And totally adorable. Her rate is reasonable, unlike many on here. I wish she lived in Richmond! :-) so few here to choose from, but catloaf is the kind of professional I look for.
Unless I missed it, everyone is totally missing probably one of the biggest culprits and that is stupid covid. Looks like a lot of good candidates bowed out because of the virus. Glad to see things are starting to come back.
@PrinceDon From my observations, it seems the primary issues discussed here existed before the pandemic (based on the fact that I was member before the start of the pandemic, as well as seeing the recurrence of these threads and the recurrence of responses. though, the pandemic is likely exacerbating it). And yeah @Catloaf is cool!
Her rate is reasonable, unlike many on here.
Thanks for the love @PrinceDon.
Also, @sunnysideup and I have had a virtual session! I can vouch for him being a really chill guy, I just wish I could hug him for real.
Kinda off topic:
Pros can charge what they like, but my rate reflects the fact that I have received no training or certification from a professional cuddling certification body (yet). I also don't rely on this for full-time work. The last time I tried to do that, I burnt out, and relying on them to make my ends meet doesn't seem fair to my clients. I have a day job, because I'm so niche about what I want to offer. And I have no problem with that. The average for a trained cuddler seems to hover around $80-$100. I'm back and forth on who I want to go with, but I know I want to do it. From the people I've spoken to over the last couple out of the nearly 5 years I've been a pro cuddler, it seems not all courses are equal and they idealise the clients and focus less on empowering the professional to stand in their own truth, and navigate troublesome personalities or behaviours.
@FitSmartCuddler as a female enthusiast who is pretty much done with cuddling maybe I can answer why there are so few of us.
Due to the disgusting choices of a few men who have cuddled me and assumed my body is theirs to use as they please (even after clearly agreeing on rules), I feel like the few good cuddles aren’t worth the few horrible cuddles that literally had me crying afterward.
I also removed pictures of me at the gym showing my body type because men commented on my body. I am married and not looking for any sexual connection whatsoever in my cuddles. I just want to cuddle.
I have only been cuddling as an enthusiast for 3 months.
I have two completely platonic local cuddle buddies and that is a success.
Right now I don’t want to meet anyone else because it’s not worth the trouble.
I’m sorry that the respectful cuddlers have to pay the price for the pushy ones. And one or two pushy cuddlers can stop an enthusiast from cuddling.
Edit: the worst cuddle I had was with someone quite new to this site. So I would be hesitant to meet-up with someone who has been here less than a couple months.
@GracieGirl I wasn’t “suggest[ing] the only reason women could possibly use makeup filters is to attract sexual partners.” I was just saying I don’t understand why so many women pros’ photos look so seductive, and why a man should not post photos of himself looking the same way. Now, it might be because I’m not attracted to women, but when I look at a woman’s profile, I find too much focus on looks off-putting. If I’m looking for a woman to cuddle, I’m looking for a sense of therapeutic professionalism that presents a look of sincerity and nurturing. I am seriously curious why most pros’ photos are the way they are, but that’s a question I should post in the pros-only forum.
There's only so much you can explain if people aren't willing to listen.
I’m all ears!
@Catloaf How do you know that men from incel or manosphere sites are “literally are lurking these forums, sometimes contributing from time to time”? [Edit: Maybe I missed it, or maybe you added the info about the “Facebook group chat a couple years back that someone told me a member of this site invited them to,” but even that is hearsay, not evidence.]
I too can be snarky, and I can be sassy, sardonic, and otherwise. I’m not saying anyone should apologize for having (I wouldn’t say “being”) a personality. I’m just saying I don’t think people should make accusations against men who complain of getting no cuddles. It’s not just you; it’s like… systemic. And in case you’re wondering, I haven’t visited “incel” or “manosphere” sites — I’m merely reflecting what I’ve seen on this site. My heart goes out to people who can’t get the cuddles they need as well as to people who get something unwanted other than the cuddles they need.
@Chris55555 , I think what your are saying is that many men look at you as a commodity rather than a person. I think I already said to you or someone else, the best way to determine if someone is right for you is to have a conversation with them before meeting to see if you would want to know them. You can see their body language, hear their voice, etc.
Many of my best cuddles have been with women who I got to know before we met. We either had a series of texts on Cuddle Comfort or had a video chat prior to the session. It gives you a feel for the person, what they might expect from you , etc. It works well that way.
To all guys, what I do when reaching out to a cuddler is write a full introduction to myself, including: hobbies, job, and other detailed information about myself. It goes a long way and most cuddlers appreciate it.
How do you know that men from incel or manosphere sites are “literally are lurking these forums, sometimes contributing from time to time”? [Edit: Maybe I missed it, or maybe you added the info about the “Facebook group chat a couple years back that someone told me a member of this site invited them to,” but even that is hearsay, not evidence.]
I know because I’ve done enough digging into the terms ‘Cuddle Comfort’ and ‘professional cuddling’ on Google that I found indexed links back to places like Roosh V, and other threads where harmful opinions are spewed. As for the Facebook group, I’m sure said friend would have been happy to provide me screenshots if I asked, and if he had actually wanted to go in there. It was basically the same in-group of people running it, and at least a couple of said people are still on the forums for not exactly breaking any TOS. Nobody in a group like that is going to out anybody else. Regardless of where these opinions are coming from, they’re harmful, they’re here, and it’s part of a growing problem because of the spread of such a “movement”.
I see you’ve been here since October, so maybe you just haven’t been here long enough to get to know some of what goes on, or was going on. I’ve been reading the forum since 2017 (with this account created in 2018) and have seen a lot, and I mean a lot of stuff in here.
@Chris55555, I'm appalled that you had to go through that! And it's further appalling that there are men out there that can't follow the rules and are ruining it for the rest of us! To any guy reading this, please follow the TOS. If you're looking for more than just cuddles please go somewhere else! No pushing the envelope to see what the lady will permit beyond the TOS. No asking if it's okay to go beyond the TOS. True enthusiast of both genders really just want cuddles. No one wants to be groped! Before you place your hand always ask if it's okay to place it on a shoulder, on a tummy or any other non-bathing suit area. It's just common courtesy and respect! Chris, I understand your concern and you have a right to be put off. I hope you can manage to stay engaged and continue to have positive relationships that fulfill your needs and the appropriate needs of others.
Oh and @sunnysideup, I'm by no means suggesting that the problem didn't exist before covid. I'm just saying that right now it is exacerbated by covid. I can't tell you how many ladies I have clicked on that look like wonderful candidates haven't been on for like a year. Even the pro I was with recently said she has only been back into it for a week and was down and out for almost a year. I'm truly glad it's bouncing back now. Stupid covid! :-)
I am delighted that we are discussing the problem and I don't suppose there's going to be a solution, but if we don't talk about it there definitely won't be.
To the original poster, your attitude made me 🤦🏽♀️ Could be part of the reason enthusiasts like me are not interested. This. is. not. a. dating. site. Do you have those same requirements for all your friends off the site???
@GracieGirl & @Babichev 👏🏽 👏🏽 👏🏽 👏🏽 👏🏽 👏🏽 👏🏽 👏🏽 👏🏽
@PrinceDon ”. . . it is incredibly frustrating to have needs and not be able to fulfill them.” Are you aware that innumerable women are also in this situation? I came here to make friends and eventually have platonic cuddles. I have met several men since joining last fall, and in almost every single encounter I have had to field unwanted sexual advances and/or totally creepy behavior, and in one case the encounter met the criteria for a crime having been committed. Only a few meetups have actually been pleasant. My walls have been built higher and higher and fielding out of potential predators more stringent to the point that I am no longer meeting any new men in person unless in public. So. Yes. This site has been an extremely frustrating experience for me and the needs I came here to meet have not been met. This is not a problem only experienced by the males here.
Yes OP it is quite possible to meet non pro women . Just realize the more narrow your preferences, the harder it is. Instead of focusing so much on what you are wanting you may want to open up a bit and not be so concerned with the superficial like age, appearance, and weight . This is not dial a date . Try to ask yourself why someone would want to get to know and cuddle you and how you might help them meet their needs . It's not a one sided deal
Regardless of the difference in opinion, I appreciate that we're all discussing the problem
— @GracieGirl
— @PrinceDon
Thank you and amen!
@pmvines , that's what I do and give enough details to a cuddler as to why they might want to cuddle with you.