how to shut down attempts at dry humping?

 This is a long post, I suggest you grab a beverage and a snack…

I'm extensively trained in obtaining consent, I often discuss issues of bodily autonomy with the families I work with, and I abide by the Hypocratic Oath in my work. Could anyone imagine a doctor/nurse/midwife/dentist or other health care providers humping a patient?  Rubbing their aroused body parts on you while providing care?  What about a massage therapist (unless it was one of those seedy "happy ending" massage parlors) humping or grinding on someone while giving a relaxing therapeutic massage? Stimulating themselves using your body while you lay there frozen in disbelief. If someone on a bus or public transportation did this it would be all over the news about some pervert was on the loose. 

But in this context of mutual PLATONIC cuddling, people almost kind of brush it off like it's part of the job description. 

NO. It isn't. 

 I expect that I will *not* be physically violated or degraded when I go to work. It's a very  normal and reasonable expectation to have. 

 This way of thinking "that it's part of the job, just get up and walk away" really needs to stop. Professional cuddlers aren't looking to be molested or degraded when we seek out healing human touch with others. 

My goal is to bring the same professionalism to this work as I do in my other work.  Being treated disrespectfully or like some kind of sex worker by a client, or the general public mocking and laughing on a news broadcast like in the video I posted above just goes to show how unevolved some humans still are. 

The fact that each individual human being on this planet still doesn't receive the same amount of mutual respect, understanding and care as the next is simply a disease of humanity.  Let's not take part in that disease, folks. 

 The fact that any human being would find it acceptable to hump and grope another human being because they lack boundaries or control over themselves is astonishing, actually.  It's immature. And it's downright frightening that some humans have the capability of being so selfish to not acknowledge the other human on the receiving end of the violation. 

This topic is truly one of the most disturbing aspects of cuddling that I have come across… The groaping and humping. It's truly disgusting that we humans have not evolved enough to understand how completely disrespectful and belittling it is for the person it's happening too. Without obtaining clear consent, without having a verbal conversation and mutual understanding, it goes so much deeper than the professional ending the session and walking away. The fact that any human being would grind on someone's leg or hip if they didn't have expressed permission or a mutual intent is just effing disgusting. 

Its happened to me twice since starting to cuddle professionally. The second time I reported it. Mark banned him and I actually got backlash from a professional Cuddler who had previously allowed this guy to grope and fondle her breasts (they even joked about it in the karma they gave to each other using the words "fluffy things" which he also referred to my breasts as "fluffy things" as he was grabbing at them like a kid in junior high school). The first person I didn't report, but it left me feeling defensive and unsure if I could continue feeling safe with cuddling.  And the experience helped me take much better precautions (even then, the second incident still happened!). I have decided to ignore the person it first happened with because they know way too much about me, where I live and work, my children's names and other identifying information. So I have decided for my own safety and well-being not to escalate the matter but keep a close eye on them. Plus, after speaking with another professional (who left this site after it happened to her) with the same client, he still texts me. And her. But it's very clear this individual doesn't realize what he's done is a violation because myself and this other professional both brought it to his attention, and apparently his thought process is if you buy a hotel room you are buying something more than just platonic cuddling. He laughed it off and made jokes about it and then continued pressing himself into me (and the same thing happened with the other Cuddler). After that session I took a very long shower and ended up  sitting on the floor of the shower in tears. It was an awful and confusing and violating experience, but not quite "rape" and not quite "illegal" and the most disturbing part is I felt like I had actually done something wrong!!! It really F-ed with me for about a week. 

But guess what?  If the other Cuddler or myself were to have made any kind of police report it would have been turned around on us… What were we doing in a hotel room with someone we barely knew and the fact that the exchange of money had taken place. See where that could be an issue for the woman??  Even though we did nothing wrong. 

 So I want everyone to think about this scenario. Be respectful. And realize it isn't just some thing that happens sometimes. 

Its not ok.   And it literally puts the professional in an awkward situation that she really can't report it to any authorities, Can she? So it goes soooooo far beyond bad behavior. It's a power game, really. And that is just wrong. 

 Humping and grinding and pressing your erection into someone is simply not OK unless it is between consenting adults who agree that your time together is of a sexual nature.  And that is the kind of relationship the two of you have established mutually. 

Otherwise its a BIG violation.  Not just some thing professional cuddlers should have to put up with as part of the job and just brush off if it continues to happen. 

Control yourselves and be gentlemen. There is another human being on the other end of that humping or pressing or grinding. 

I_am_Polylover

I have to disagree with you that it was not quite illegal.  It definitely qualifies as sexual battery, which is very illegal.  However, I do take your point that it would probably come back on you if you tried to report it.  It bothers me a lot that you and other women have had to go through this.
♥Jim

It bothers me too. Tremendously.  I appreciate you very much @Poly when men are responsible and they actually get it.  These types of behaviors are predatory, they are not innocent or "no big deal" as some want to make it out to be. 

the reason I'm sharing and being persistent in this thread is to take the joking out of it and asking that it stop being reduced to "just end the session and walk away"    

NO.

Dudes, stop humping people. This shouldn't even be a topic to discuss. Just stop humping!

Also, stop putting the expectation on the professional or the other Cuddler to put an end to the behavior. The responsibility is with the owner of the erection/person doing the grinding.  Not the other way around! 

Getting an erection isn't the issue we are discussing. That is a normal function of our anatomy like hiccups, goosebumps or sneezing. Just ignore the erection and put a pillow between the two of you and carry on. 

It's what happens with that situation if it ISN'T ignored. It is the MAN'S responsibility to carry on as if the erection didn't happen. And that part absolutely needs to be addressed. It's strange to me it's being made the other person's responsibility. Let's behave like adults. 

Its also extremely childish to hump someone in a non sexual platonic exchange. "Look I have a penis. Look look, it got hard" I mean it's really just shocking when a grown man acts like a child and can't be mature about his body. 

We really can do better as a group of conscience and empathetic humans. We can be the ones to set higher standards. Otherwise, why would we expect others to really believe platonic cuddling is PLATONIC?

i think the words "humping, moaning, pressing and grinding" and what to do about an erection need to be clearly spelled out in the terms of service better. I'm extremely clear in the obtaining consent part of my rules.  And I say it like 4-5 times in my profile this is platonic and non sexual.  

I even say the expectation of our interaction is what would be appropriate cuddling and embracing between a mother and a child. 

@ fire and blue :
your statement 
"it's part of the job.  Get up and walk away" 
it really needs to stop 

you are trying to make perfect , the imperfect world we have, 
good luck with that . I hope you succeed.

also you are right about the police report turning on you , 
you sold the client the right to touch you ...
you claim in certain areas only 
you are in an intimate bubble ,
he kicks it up a notch and may claim you gave consent,
or never communicated boundaries 

perhaps you might want to take a break from cuddling for a while 

 Excuse me? " you sold someone the right to touch you???!"

Ummmmm, no, I engaged in mutually consensual platonic cuddling. 

Take a break from cuddling because somebody else crossed the very clearly written and verbally expressed boundary line?

Victim blame much? 

 Gross! FFS men like this DO exist. Actually, if I were you I'd be ashamed of myself for saying something like that in public.  It's been a while since somebody said something so misogynistic directly at me, usually that shit is more subtle. Or less public. Or reserved for the "men" in our current government. 

 What if I were your sister? Or your mother, daughter, niece or aunt or a female best friend? Or what about your wife? Would you put the responsibility on HER to change HER behavior or would you hold the man responsible for HIS actions. 

 Along with that same line of thinking, should a woman who is sexually assaulted stop drinking? or stop wearing skirts? or going out after dark?  Maybe she should wear baggy clothes and not draw so much attention to herself… After all, it's her fault right? 

 Take a break? Lol

 Maybe the man who's acting like a perpetrator should take a lesson in how to act like a gentleman? I see absolutely no connection in his behavior and me going about my business with other clients who don't have any issue acting like a real man. 

Check yourself.  You actually crossed the line here. 

Brandi

Well said fireandblue.. I cant beleive the nerve some people have. They will never truley understand what its like to be in our position, its a risk to take on clients like that... To say we cant change this sick world that we live in is just incorrect...


by being assertive with our boundries and calling out anyone that doesnt behave, I have lots of faith that any human mind can have enough self control... or else hopefully proper consequences will be done.

Thank you @Brandi. You are correct that some people just don't get it. All the more reason to be even more careful before being alone in any space with a person who carries that mindset and is willing to display it in public. 

Buck

When I saw this thread, the first thing that came to mind was, "wow, like some sort of mindless animal behavior"  I just want to clarify my opinion.  It is not acceptable and should not be tolerated at any level.

Fire and blue .  What !?
did you collect a fee for platonic cuddling ?
that is a sale .
am I right ?

and the break suggestion was if I was a relative or friend .

 That is not the way your comment came across. 

 Being paid for a clearly defined platonic service is not a "sale of my body".  If you read my previous comments it would be just like a massage therapist grinding and rubbing themself all over you.  That Massage Therapist is being paid for a massage, not sexual grinding and humping. Plenty of people get in erection during a massage, but that is not an invitation to do anything about it.

  It's called self-control. 

The mindset of it being seen any other way is utterly shocking to myself and to a handful of other people I have had a discussion with about this thread in general. 

 Maybe because I have extensive experience with professional communication, and I take the written and spoken word literally, so when people use words "allegedly" or "claim to... have only offered platonic services" you completely discount the fact and reality that this is a platonic site.  It is the only reason I'm here, for platonic mutual non-sexual therapeutic cuddling. That's ALL. 

if I would have reported his illegal and sexually harassing behavior, I would have been the one wrongfully questioned, interrogated and made out to be the bad guy if I were to *defend myself* or make a police report,  something I should never have to do in the first place because it is clearly breaking the rules of this site.  Let's not forget this guy did this same thing to another cuddler who has left the site, a friend of mine who I am in regular communication with and I know her in real life. 

let's not forget this is a platonic PLATONIC PLATONIC  site!!! 

 So why are we even discussing humping and thrusting and erections beyond the fact that it's unacceptable to take it any further than ignoring it?

The simple fact that we would even *have to* carry on this discussion when people meeting here are on a platonic site, but then add in the literal victim blaming, or making it out to be like it's not a big deal, or that for some reason the professionals are the ones who have to curb the behavior is... effing ridiculous!  

I'm not a b*ner babysitter!

By the time a man reaches the age of adulthood it should have already been established that he, and he alone, are responsible for his actions and behaviors, and controlling his erections. If he can't conduct himself like a gentleman and use some manners instead of thrusting his d*ck on other people that is not my problem to manage. 

 Dry humping or rubbing an erection on somebody or even drawing attention to it and expecting someone to do something about an erection on a platonic site like this should be grounds for immediate removal! 

 I absolutely refuse to take any responsibility whatsoever for somebody else's erection. I'm a woman, I don't have a penis, and I don't go around thrusting my non existing penis on other people when the arrangement is absolutely and very clearly...platonic.  

 If a grown man can't manage himself properly when the wind blows or he has an automatic response or even if he is physically attracted to the person when he is cuddling, then he has no business arranging *platonic* cuddling. 

 Like I said before it is not an issue of whether or not an erection happens, it's what a person chooses to DO (or more specifically, NOT do) if that situation where to "arise". 

 So to clear it up, humping or pressing or grinding someone with your genitalia is intentional sexual stimulation...and it's NOT OK! 

 I don't know how to be any more clear or firm about it, but I do not expect to be molested or sexually assaulted when what I have signed up for is clear cut and dry PLATONIC cuddling. 

Thank you @Buck. A gentleman's answer. 

greenearth2

You really need to calm down.  Honestly people why all the ranting. 
Everyone here knows that humping someone during cuddling is wrong.   That's obvious now if it wasn't already obvious before.    Should have been but some people are slow.  

The point was how to stop it when its happening or stop it in general.   Shouting in here that it's wrong and no one should do it doesn't really help the original poster with that question does it.  

 "You really need to calm down…"

 ?  

Eww. 

No, I have just as much right to my opinion as anybody else. 

 Just like you go off on people on other threads about having never paid a professional on the site so they have no right to chime in on your comment? Soooo... When was the last time you were humped or someone thrust of their erect penis on your leg during platonic cuddling?  Does that happen to you a lot? Then you have no right to comment on what I have said according to your own logic. 

Also... Misogyny.  

lol

And haven't you been told many times before to not address me directly? I meant it.

Or are you one of those men that needs to be told several times before you listen when a woman puts a firm boundary in place?  Seems like it. 

 Just like a guy who would hump and grind on somebody several times after being told no? Takes a few times being told to stop, does it?

  Here are a few simple things to remember:

No... is a complete sentence.

stop... also a complete sentence. 

Leave me alone... is a complete sentence.

Stop harassing me... is a complete sentence.

 And don't address me directly... is a complete sentence.

If you'd like I can attach a link to reading comprehension websites. 

I did seriously mean it… Do not address me.  I've asked you more than a handful of times now and once was all that's required. 

And you certainly do not ever instruct me on what *I need to* say or do or think.

What you do need to do stop addressing me directly.  

Asking just one time in writing is all that is required before it's considered harassment. 

 Nobody tells me what to do, what to say or what to think. Got it?

 Good  

 

greenearth2

I recall a pro that I saw mentioned dry humping and when she told him to stop he left early.   Obviously that guy wasn't going to be happy with being rebuffed.   
Another told me that one client was perfectly fine with her friend but then tried humping her in another session.   So clients don't always do it with everyone.    
She tried to understand why the difference.  And having cuddled with both of them the only main difference I could tell was her friend was more direct about what she would and wouldn't allow.   She also seemed more stern if that makes sense.   It made me sad though to think that just because she seemed kinder and less stern it gave this idiot client a green light.   

Rapey behavior is rapey behavior.  If a guy isn't happy being "rebuffed" that isn't anyone else's problem but his own. How childish. Was his name Brock Turner?

It is never a woman's responsibility to be nice or firm or even say it more than once. I clearly don't have any issue with being firm, direct, and I don't mince words.  I'm also very kind, gentle and empathetic. It really just depends on which Gemini is awoken. Still some people are ignorant and think they can push boundaries that normal people would never dare to.   Present company included. 

 I am a short feisty fiery Irish redhead. I'm also literally a ninja if provoked (having been married to a Sifu and then in a relationship for over four years with a man who is 6 ft 7, an undefeated black belt, and an Officer in the US Air Force. My brother was a US Marine/ Sharp shoot/Recon). Each of them taught me how to fight my way out of any situation necessary.  Lethal, nonlethal, tactical and practical. 

 I'm pretty sure even though I'm only 5 ft 1 nobody wants to put me in a position where I had to say no except for verbally.  I don't have any problem defending myself if put in the position to do so.  

fire and blue , that is exactly what to do after the guy gets his warning to stop his groping , hands down pants , dry humping etc, and ignores your warnings
stop , walk out , as per client agreement if he tries to force himself out yourself in that ninja mode and beat the  #*^£"!   out of him 

funandadventure

@FireAndBlue, Dear Fire, Thank you for your input and I agree with all that has been said by all parties, To all new members here is an example of what we do not want on this site, it is not a dating, hookup site, Sex in any form is not part of this site, we are a touch therapy group and should be respected as such, As can be seen from above so many members do not get it and HUMPING happens, Even experienced cuddler's can become aroused by the close contact of another person, Male or female, it is what you do next that determines your inner understanding and thought patterns.
Have fun and please play safe. John Auckland NZ

pmvines

@sparkyblue-eyes charging a nominal fee for cuddling does not imply groping or sexually based touching, or grinding your sexual organ on someone. That is the issue at hand that is being discussed. That is not part of platonic cuddling even if there is a charge for it. Its still their body, and if they aren't comfortable with certain things, it is not debatable. Its not a matter of opinion or conjecture.

Vines I did not intend to imply the fee is for sexual touching .
i was trying to explain to the community that a fee is being charged for a platonic session , 
and since the essence of touch therapy is touch ( hands) 
there is an uphill battle in case ,
 a victim ,
makes an attempt to report a sexual attack of some sort , to a law officer 

also , I would like to encourage the pros that if it is not in them , to , use the client agreement as a tool to communicate a warning , and then walk away if the unappropriate touching continues ,
then an activity of a professional cuddrer, should not continue .

pmvines

@sparkyblue-eyes I did interpret it as that if you are charging a fee for someone to touch you then that sort of thing is to be expected from time to time. I don't necessarily believe you meant for it to be interpreted that way, but it obviously was by several people. I don't believe you are condoning the behavior at all to be clear. It does however seem to minimize the issue.

greenearth2

SparklYblue I understood what you meant. 
Proving assault would be difficult when you're agreeing to cuddle which involves Intimate physical touching.   Proving that humping even happened would be a challenge.  
Best thing is to ban those guys and leave bad karma and kill the session if it happens at all

Or...

 The behavior should never happen in the first place. That's my point. 

 That responsibility lies on the person doing the humping, not anyone else.  It's predatory. Stop it. 

 The original thread was a question: how to shut down attempts at dry humping... simple answer to all who are reading... DON'T hump people. Then nobody has to shut down your bad behavior. 

 It's not my job to correct the behavior, it's not my job to get myself out of a messy situation, and it's not my job to be put in a situation where I would have to make any kind of police report to begin with. 

 It is the other person's job to conduct themselves in a manner that they're not acting *literally* like a horny dog. 

 And all of the examples that I put above about how it would be inappropriate for a doctor or dentist or Midwife or Massage Therapist or the person who cuts your hair… Or anyone to hump anyone. Any professional should be able to do their job without being humped, it doesn't matter if you are a Cudler or not.  The idea that this behavior somehow comes with the territory of cuddling is the ridiculous part. 

Fire you are correct, one caveat is if people fall asleep. I had roommates talked in their sleep. And know some that walk if their sleep. I won't cuddle whole asleep because of what might potentially happen while unconscious. Not imagining dry humping would happen unconsciously but for my comfort I want to be awake to endure I don't grab or touch any area offliimits while i was asleep.

 Good point about "what happens while asleep"  but my own personal boundaries, and I would hope that other professional cuddlers would adhere to something similar, I would only do overnight cuddles with someone who has been a client several times and there is an enormous amount of trust built up already. These "hump chumps" seem to be newbies or people who are trying to push the limits and are not actually interested in platonic cuddling, but rather trying to find some kind of excuse to get laid or "extras"

 If I trust someone enough to see them a handful of times and book an overnight, I am not concerned with them all of the sudden turning in to a leg humping dog.    

Morpheus

I haven't read all the comments word for word so I don't know if it's been mentioned but not all pros live by the same rules. I do believe in following the rules but the pros who don't and allow more do cause some harm making clients think all pros do the same things.

 The terms of this site and what kind of cuddling is allowed. Strictly PLATONIC.

Sexual contact is off limits, the terms of the site are clear. Or does pressing one's erect penis into another person or rubbing it up and down on their body or calling attention to an erection not fall under the category of "no sexual contact"?  It's a body part normally covered by underwear/swimsuit, right?

im unsure where this confusion is actually coming from. 

https://www.cuddlecomfort.com/media/contracts/CC_Client_Service_Agreement.pdf

CuddleComfort.com Client Service Agreement

I (“Client”) understand and agree to all of the following:

Session Rules

1. No sexual activity is permitted. If a Client tries to force themselves sexually onto a Cuddler, the Cuddler has the right to leave.

2. Both parties will remain clothed the entire session. Undergarments do not constitute as sufficient clothing. If either party needs to change clothing this will be done in private and out of sight of the other party. If a Client shows off areas normally covered by undergarments purposely, the Cuddler has the right to leave.

3. No touching in areas covered by undergarments is permitted. If this occurs, the Cuddler has the right to leave. No kissing is allowed.

4. Cleanliness and adequate hygiene is required by both parties. This specifically includes showering/teeth brushed within 12 hours of the appointment, wearing freshly laundered clothing, and no (or minimal) perfume/cologne be worn by both parties unless requested.

Use of Website

5. Date, duration and price for all appointments must be confirmed on the Cuddle Comfort messaging system. This includes all further sessions with the same Cuddler.

6. We reserve the right to monitor your online conversations with a Cuddler for feedback and record keeping purposes.

7. You must respond to any follow­up communications we make after an appointment as to provide us feedback and confirm session details such as date, duration and price.

8. All contact with the Cuddler, including scheduling, should remain on our website unless absolutely necessary.

The Cuddler

9. The Cuddler is a third­party independent cuddler and is entirely responsible for the service they provide to the Client. We do not check the credibility or authenticity of the Cuddler.

 Payment

10. The Cuddler will ask for payment from the Client for the Full Session Price as previously agreed between the Cuddler and Client on the website. Payment for each session is due before the session or at the very start of one.

Cancellation Policy

11. If you cancel within 12 hours of the appointment we ask that you pay half of the session price. This is to compensate the Cuddler for lost business as it’s unlikely they would be able to find another client for that scheduled period at such short notice.

12. If you cancel within 24 hours and your session includes a rental space arrangement prepaid for by the Cuddler, we ask you pay the full price of that rental cost. This is to compensate the Cuddler for what would otherwise be a tangible financial loss. In the reverse scenario we also ask the Cuddler compensate you in the same way.

13. In the case of a Cuddler cancelling within 24 hours, they are expected to offer you compensation in the form of a discount for your next session with them.

Safety

14. Cuddle Comfort makes no claim that using our website to organise cuddle sessions is safe. Before any session begins, the Client should always exercise due diligence independent of our website to satisfy their own peace of mind in regards to safety.

15. Cuddlers may carry and use a non­lethal personal defense item to defend themselves, subject to local laws and regulations.

Miscellaneous

16. The Cuddler will not break any federal, city, state or county laws, statutes or regulations while performing services with the Client.

17. The Client will not break any federal, city, state or county laws, statutes or regulations while with the Cuddler.

18. The Client agrees hereby to indemnify and hold harmless Cuddle Comfort and CuddleComfort.com from any and all claims by the Client which may arise out of and in the course of the service. The Client releases Cuddle Comfort from any liability.

Your use of our services implies you have read and agree to these terms. Violation of these terms may permanently revoke your privilege to use our services.

Morpheus

I don't think it's confusion, I just think some pros don't follow rules. As I said, this leads clients to believe they don't have to follow the rules as well. 

 Seems like a ton of people are confused. Even you seem confused. On one hand you say you try and follow the rules and then in the next sentence say that some professionals allow more.  What is "more" exactly?  Humping their leg?  I don't see why it's so difficult to "try not to do that"

 Every single professional I have spoken to, and more than a dozen of us in a behind the scenes conversation ongoing for a while now about the absurdity and annoyance, each woman has said that they have been had unwanted touching, been aggressively groped, molested or humped or excessive attention has been brought to an erection instead of quietly covering or changing position. So taking handfuls of conversations about everyone's experiences and adding more than a dozen other professionals having similar experiences, plus the fact that this thread has been ongoing for a while now, I would say it is a chronic problem with platonic cuddling. And because professionals are almost entirely women, it is the men/clients doing the humping. 

 I'd say there is a ton of confusion surrounding this. Does @Mark actually need to add a "no humping rule" so it's more clear?  if so, I think I will lose all faith in humanity if men are really that ridiculous about their penis etiquette that they can't read rule number 1, 2 and 3 and not understand humping and groping and pressing an erection into someone doesn't fall under sexual contact.