Men...is this your reality?

SunsetSnuggles

My guy friend just sent me this and I'm heartbroken. Men, is this your reality? Is this why so many of you are here? What can we do to change this culture?

https://youtube.com/shorts/9mLZM4AwoSA?feature=share

You can always "call" me...

~ Sunset Snuggles

cuddles_ndream

I agree with your friend ! I wouldn’t say this is true for every single guy when they joined, but yes.

OhioMike

@SunsetSnuggles my initial reaction is that’s a bunch of guys feeling sorry for themselves. I noticed a lot were young. I have 3 adult sons who call me daily. Maybe these young men don’t have that family connections. Idk.

I’ve been here awhile and I’m here to meet people. It’s a great site for that 😊

Wouldn't personally say that's entirely my reality, but it does reflect it for the most part.

I generally call my dad if I have any issues that I think he'll be able to and want to help with but those are never anything emotional or mental, more things like asking for information he might know or help with something like fixing my door handle. We've almost never talked about emotional topics beyond some of our shared trauma from my mother, and occasionally some other things here and there but never in much depth.

Want to say I call my best friend if I'm really feeling down but I don't really and haven't ever called them out of something like that, maybe a couple of comments but usually change the topic quickly to avoid dwelling on it, a lot more used to being the person that helps people deal with things than the person who gets helped. Part of that is just down to my personality, I'm less comfortable dealing with my own issues or being especially emotional with people. It's shitty but it makes me feel selfish to talk much with others about how I'm feeling or things I'm dealing with. I need to be pretty close to someone and trust them to talk about things like that and most of the people who I've come to trust ended up not being trustworthy, so that also factors into it.

Won't claim that the above or what's in that video is reflective of the experiences and situations of all or most men but from what I know it does apply to a lot. We're expected to bottle emotions up to a degree and the problem with bottling something up is that it either gets suppressed a bit, or explodes, or a bit of both.

As for what can be done to change that aspect of culture. I'd say normalising self expression for men more, thankfully things are improving in that regard. But also views on what a man is, what makes a man, should change. All too many times you hear about people saying someone's a manly man or a real man and what they mean by that is that they don't let anything get to them, or are incredibly strong either mentally or physically, they're expected to be ambitious and on top of the situation at all times.

But for a lot of people I reckon that strength is a façade, and things do get to them, it's just that they can't let others see or can't recognise the issues that are being caused by particular patterns of behaviour.

RadiantHugs

This is certainly true for a lot of men, the notion that men shouldn't express feelings outwardly was so ingrained by society early on in their childhoods. Fortunately, I see good signs that our society is changing in this respect. Just from anecdotal evidence, I've been consistently participating in an online men's group for a few years now, and it's always fully booked at any given time. Men have started to warm up to the idea that therapy, support groups, and vulnerability, are no longer a sign of "weakness." I must admit that outside group hours though, I don't have a list of male friends to call for emotional support - though I'd frequently plan activities with men or ask them for help with logistical stuff - "hey can you come and give me a hand moving this couch?" Rarely though - "hey I need some support with a life situation." That latter scenario only happens for me during scheduled group meetings. So it's still a work in progress.

achetocuddle

@OhioMike I basically agree tho there may be more to the story.

Young people grow up so differently than some of the rest of us. Sometimes parents are not together, neither parent got to stay home with them AT ALL, no feeling of community anywhere, the human race as a group seems more self-absorbed (that cut's both ways), people not learning before they are grown how to verbally express themselves and not many examples in their lives of how positive it can be to be vulnerable with the right people. I could go on and on. I imagine the aspects of interpersonal relationships that I find easy are possibly bewildering or just plain not doable for them.

I do try to power/suffer thru my low times because so many of the people that do care about me work long hours and have their own chronic stuff to get thru. I don't necessarily recommend this. LOL.

entwine

I feel that @achetocuddle , your post was well said

But I feel like that could be anyone's reality, not just men.
And I wouldn't have gone as far as saying "nobody cares because I'm a man". I think it's just like what OhioMike said, they just don't have anyone in their circle that cares. Or at least they were too embarrassed/worried/ashamed to even ask to find out if they do care. It seems we tend to project our own thoughts onto what others may do before we even give them the chance to have chosen for themselves. At least that's what I seem to do a lot.
I need to be better about giving the people the chance to reject me themselves instead of choosing to have them reject me myself. Because otherwise there's not even the chance of having them care.

Anyways, good thread and replies. It got me to look inward at least.

PeopleLikeUs

No. The way forward lies in recognizing their plight and incouraging them with love, support and understanding, not just the guys in this video but everyone in every area of gender. We're all interconnected and we all play a part in this dilemma.

jaswbrown

I genuinely cried watching it, because damn, that use to be me... I was married, father of 2, and an Air Force Non-Commissioned Officer responsible for 40 troops and countless millions of dollars worth of equipment when I hit my lowest. I was overwhelmed with anxiety, depression, grief, and trauma... I didn't recognize the fact that I was SURROUNDED by people that I could've been vulnerable with. I ended up having an emotional breakdown in front of a subordinate that I've worked with for years, who only asked "Can you talk about it?" I was beyond words so I only managed to shake my head. He then offered to drive me to the Mental Health Clinic on base, and after reassurances from the therapist that there would be no repercussions from my leadership for my sudden absence, I eagerly admitted myself to inpatient treatment in a behavioral clinic. I credit my coworker for possibly saving my life, because I had always believed that it was MY responsibility to be the strong one in all situations. There are some things, though, that no one can be prepared for and I didn't want to burden anyone else with my struggles.

I was fortunate to have a literal life-changing (and saving) experience during my inpatient treatment. I learned to value my vulnerabilities, to better express my emotions, and to allow myself to accept help from others. I became an outspoken proponent for mental health at work, which gained me a little notoriety with some of my leadership due to the increase in numbers who were seeking therapy. "Wouldn't it be nice if we could do a great service to our country, AND be happy at the same time?"

I'm not here as my only emotional outlet, or as the only place I can feel safe while vulnerable. Cuddling is no replacement for professional therapy, but the 'feel good' chemicals are nice and do help. I like to augment my weekly therapy sessions with the occasional cuddle.

My message to other Men (anyone, really): It takes Strength to ask for help. Be Strong and ask.

CuddleDuncan

I would guess that's the reality for a lot of men. (And not just men, obviously.) It's certainly been the reality for me a lot of the time. Cuddle Comfort has meant that it's not the reality for me at the moment: I do have people to call and I do call them and they are sympathetic. It's difficult though, because not calling is so ingrained.

I'm sure it's true for a lot of men that no one cares. They don't mean no one cares about them at all, they just mean that no one cares if they are down. Common responses from any man they told would include things that boil down to 'pull yourself together' or some jocular remark that covers up the friend's inability to deal with emotion. Or their own sadness.

If you tell a woman that you are low you risk being shouted at or otherwise criticised. If you want a wife or girlfriend who is certain to be supportive in that circumstance you're aiming very high indeed. It's not at all rare for women to be highly intolerant of men showing emotion, particularly low emotion. This forum provides repeated examples of that.

@OhioMike I didn't see anybody feeling sorry for themselves. Your sons are lucky. Would you have made a remark like that if the video was a bunch of women saying something equivalent? If you had, you would be hounded into apology then silence. Yet nobody has a said a word. It's socially unacceptable to not believe women's experience, yet your first response to men's experience is basically, "I don't believe you".

@entwine

And I wouldn't have gone as far as saying "nobody cares because I'm a man".

I definitely, definitely would go as far as saying that. In fact I would say it's the heart of the problem.

JoyfulHeart

It used to be my reality. Joining this site is one thing that has turned it around for me.

It can be discouraging to have one's emotions discounted over and over, but I've found that there are people in this world who are willing to hear me.

Some men haven't experienced that acceptance yet. If you're one of them, don't give up.

Like @SunsetSnuggles I'm here to listen to anyone who doesn't feel heard.

achetocuddle

@entwine I agree.

sunnysideup

Hmm, not sure I’d say this is all men’s reality. I think anyone can be alone regardless of gender.

If anything, based on my personal experiences, it seems that women are generally without friends more than guys are.

Maybe what this video is insinuating on is a pressure on men to not show emotion (well unless it’s agression/on the toxic side of being assertive), to ‘succeed’ or be the best or whatever, deal with problems on your own, etc

achetocuddle

@sunnysideup Certainly this applies to both genders. It is not necessarily all or most young people. You might be right about men generally having more friends that women, especially if the women are married with children, and work a public job on top of that. In certain social circles, men are pursuing their hobbies, etc. with each other and women often don't have time or energy to pursue hobbies. Sometimes women are afraid to spend the money to pursue a hobby because they perceive the man to be spending too much. I know this works both ways. I'm just mentioning some things that can cause men to have more opportunities to make friends.

I don't in any way feel that any of this is absolute and don't mean to imply that.

I don't know why in my previous post that I spelled cuts as cut's. Maybe cause I picked strawberries yesterday and I am tired.

@JoyfulHeart I always love hearing about your experience and turnaround. You are one of the poster "children" for this site. I hope that is OK?

Somehow that video smacked a little of bias or undue influence? but I feel for every one of those guys that are genuine.

RadiantHugs

@CuddleDuncan writes: Common responses from any man they told would include things that boil down to 'pull yourself together' or some jocular remark that covers up the friend's inability to deal with emotion. Or their own sadness.

I agree this is a huge part of it. If I had men in my circle who were able to offer a sensitive ear and empathy for my situation, I'd certainly call them when I'm down. But as it turns out, most men I know in my proximity (colleagues, neighbors, activity buddies, etc) just don't have the skills. Not through any fault of their own, not because they don't care, but because they just never were taught them. Stepping into a vulnerable space with another man is highly uncomfortable for them - so it's a lot easier for them to try to help by simply "fixing" the problem temporarily or by dismissing it. I'm definitely guilty of having done this often.

jaswbrown

With my military experience, I can only speak to my own or to what I've had my troops confide in me. What I've noticed, is that the need to keep your vulnerabilities hidden and keeping up appearances that you have everything under control, affected more of my male troops, but the stakes were higher with my female troops that were affected. I was shocked to learn how much harder even MY own female troops had to fight for recognition, and a lot of it seemed to stem from balancing a military career with a family life. I noticed instances where a male member would ask for 'family time off', and it was viewed as positive thing, as he was 'a rock for his family; a true provider', whereas a female member would be viewed as 'having difficulties balancing priorities'... I had to have words with one of my superiors after he had a discussion with one of my female troops where he said "I don't feel you are in a position with your family life to beneficially advance your military career..." I was SO genuinely mad at him for saying this to one of my best troops, who happened to be a new mom seeking on-base child care.

So yeah, the mentality that we have to have 'all our ducks in a row' at all times, and that "seeking help is a sign of weakness" harms ALL OF US... The Mental Health stigma needs to stop. That's one of the things I like about the 'Cuddling Community'... I feel that the majority of the people here (and in the forums, especially) are caring individuals, fostering something that can provide someone that extra bit of comfort and security they may need to hold them over during rough times, or times of loneliness...

achetocuddle

@CuddleDuncan Good thoughtful points that I will have to ponder. And you are correct about numerous examples of men in some forum posts being highly intolerated by women for being low. Now I am considering that maybe my own thinking and notions seeming more masculine (to me) is due to my dad doing what dads so often do to their sons (discounting their emotions).

@SunsetSnuggles Great thread.

Wonderfully thought-provoking responses. Bravo.

achetocuddle

@CuddlesByDeep Once I realized that men trying to offer solutions to my problems (but nothing else) was their way of showing how much they care, I and they were a lot better off. I'm just glad I learned this

CSnMUS87

Just watched it and definitely felt some feelings there. I must say for me it's pretty true. It wasn't always this way though. I just don't really have anyone I turn to anymore to talk about these feelings when at my lowest (which thankfully isn't often). I don't have as many friends as I used to when I was younger, and the ones I do have would probably say nothing, or make some stupid joke or comment, so I just usually keep it to myself when I'm feeling that way. Another reason is even with some female friends, I feel like I would be bothering them with my insignificant problems when I know they have a lot of their own to worry about. And I don't want to lose any friends I do still have by complaining all the time.

houdini2019

For a lot of men the video is a reality. Showing vulnerability means risking that that vulnerability will be used against you, particularly by other men who may consider showing vulnerability Ito be showing weakness.

I've had people in my life (mostly women) who I could share that vulnerability to but it's always a risk, unless it's in therapy.

I think things are changing and men are getting less resistance to showing their vulnerability, but it is still a significant risk. Show it to the right person and it is comforting and provides a sense of please. But showing it to the wrong person could be catastrophic.

pmvines

Nobody knows when I am at my lowest. The space between my ears can take me to some dark places. Pitch black somerimes. But nobody knows because I choose to not share this . I dont believe that this is due at all to me being a man . It has to do with my personal choice to keep my business personal. I know that a bad day does not equal a bad life , and have no interest in showing off my demons due to a bad day

With my lowest? No one.

With day to day things, I have a few people I can talk to.

But my darkest thoughts, my truly despairing places... It is my duty to protect others from those things, not inflict them.

And, as to emotional vulnerability, I have yet to share it with anyone and not have it later used against me. Later might mean within seconds of that sharing, or months later. But every single time I have regretted sharing my fears, or my weariness, or simply the day to day hurt and bewilderment we all feel.

TheFunCartel

@pmvines 💯 I think that kind of loneliness exists, but it is a gross generalization based off a YouTube video. Unfortunately, I think YouTube and TikTok are more of a reality with people. I think generalizing genders is wrong anyway. It leads to stereotypes and false assumptions. I mean can we generalize that all women are never isolated and alone because they have a better network?

Chris04

wrench

yea. literally noone. i work my ass off on the road for 6 months looking forward to that time off and when im having low nights i just eat junk food and watch tv till i forget why i was sad, then lay awake all night miserable. most men dont have people to call and say hey im feeling like crap lets hang out.

GentleMan1111

This is not true for me currently but there have been times Ive felt that way, and I talk to guys that do feel the way the men in the video express. And honestly this is a subject that I could talk a lot more about but I’m always afraid of getting jumped on.

JoyfulHeart

@JoyfulHeart I always love hearing about your experience and turnaround. You are one of the poster "children" for this site. I hope that is OK?

@achetocuddle Yes, that's ok.

Ricky43

True for me. Especially since my divorce. Sometimes I talk to my parents or my brother. But I really don’t have any friends. Not trying to sound sad, but it is currently my truth

sunnysideup

If I can add, most of the pressure I feel to be super confident, assertive etc comes from women, not men.

I’ve encountered many women that have treated me like absolute dogshit because I had low self esteem and didn’t know how to set boundaries. The guys in my life were never as cruel.

DaringSprinter

I'm not a man (or a woman, come to that), but since my earliest years it's never occurred to me that calling another human might be an option when I'm down. I was raised religious, see. Burden another weak human with your weakness? Nooo.

You're supposed to rely on God for that. Talk to somebody who never replies—he'll help you get through it! Pray, and it'll make you feel better.

And sometimes it does. Sometimes, you know, all you really want is to vent and feel like you've been heard. Imaginary friends are good for that. But sometimes you could really use some kind of response. And at times like that, you're told your faith is weak. You should believe he's there, listening and caring and supporting you, without any evidence at all.

"There's nothing me and God can't handle."

To say otherwise is to admit you're not only not a real man, but also not a real Christian.

These days, things are different for me. I'm no longer religious, so I don't have to gaslight myself into thinking this thing or that thing is a sign of divine intervention, and I've got @HogboblinZwei—a friend who sticks closer than a brother.

I don't have to be strong for him, nor him for me. We can cry on each other if we want.

It's nice.

RaveHeart

This is me. I grew up in a household with an alpha male-mentality older brother and a traditional mom who didn't think boys should cry. Any time my brother spotted me crying he would just tell me I'm soft or "be a man" and "crying is for little girls. You gotta man up" and my mom would just say boys shouldn't cry, that I have to be stronger than that.

I once hugged an old high school friend of mine who was crying because his dog ran away and my mom saw it and lectured me not to do that because "boys shouldn't be hugging other boys". To this day, I try to be the most understanding, comforting, thoughtful, and compassionate person I can be to any friend of mine who needs it, but I just can't bring myself to be vulnerable to most of them.

This is why the one time a close friend of mine agreed to cuddle with me a couple months ago I cried three times in her embrace. I hadn't been allowed to be that vulnerable, that soft, and that small to anyone in a very long time, and when she allowed me that space to be vulnerable, the tears just flooded their way out of me.

Despite that, I still feel like I don't have anyone I can go to consistently who will console me the way I do for others.