I was young, stupid, naive, and deprived of any positivity from the opposite sex. Now I know that I'm not desirable, so I'd know that something was suspicious.
I’ve never been a been in a relationship, so when a woman shows interest in me it’s extremely anxiety inducing because I’m afraid I’ll do something to screw it up, like all my other dates, or it’s not real and the lady only wants to use me. The most dates I’ve ever been on was with someone who wanted to use me. She was sweet and kind when I asked her out, but on the first date it became apparent she only wanted me as a human atm. But I stuck around for 3 dates because I was lonely until I then finally ghosted her.
Not true at all. Just a small sample of dudes in a video.
This doesn't help anyone, but it sticks in my craw that there are several kind, open and honest guys here that are not finding cuddles or at least getting them more easily. I wish you good futures.
@achetocuddle Not sure if I’m part of that group you’re referring to, but I’m okay with not finding many cuddle partners as I’ll just hire a professional when I start feeling a lack of touch. More incentive to make more money!
@sunnysideup Lol. I miss having some pretty good earning power.
I should mention that sometimes it sticks in my craw that I have a hard time finding a compatible cuddle. I'm not looking at the moment; too hot, tired and busy. The body heat might make me spontaneously combust
I will not post anymore off-topic on this thread. Good evening or good day.
@sunnysideup I feel that - the part about anxiety. I’m even afraid of just asking for cuddling even though I’m paying for it. Sometimes I wonder why I’m so different, like why do I lack so much confidence? I’m not saying you lack confidence, but I do. Did I not get the memo that my brain was supposed to allow me to ask for the things I want? My anxiety is too overwhelming, I don’t think it’s normal at all. And I’ve been trying to figure this out for years. I haven’t even been on a date it’s so bad. I’m sitting in my room on a Saturday night and my roommate brought his family over and I can’t even get out my room. But then when it comes time to work, magically my brain switches and I have the confidence to get out and talk to people. I don’t get it.
I don't know why, but I've been resisting reading this thread for a while. I think maybe I was afraid that I would feel impatient or frustrated because inevitably whenever women talk about their reality, there's some dude who pops on there to say #notallmen. And I was worried this was going to be a big thread of people invalidating each other's experiences. I'd like to say I'm deeply moved and I'm glad I committed to reading.
As I was reading through different men's stories I found myself seeing the faces of men in my life and wondering if that's how they felt. Even my life partner. I remember talking to him once about what we would do if one of us was in a car accident and I wanted him to come to the hospital if I was hurt, but he didn't want me to come if he was hurt and I just can't shake this idea that he's afraid that if I saw him like that it would be too much and that I would reject him.
There have been times in my life when I've experienced deep rejection, especially in breakups that have been emotionally violent. In those moments, I have told myself, "You can't actually trust anybody, not really, not in your true vulnerability. People say they want to be there for you, but they really don't. Not really. Not if it costs them anything". I love my parents, but they are not trustworthy with my true vulnerable self either. It's been painful for me, but I've also always had permission to be emotional and it's even been expected of me to be weak. I've had permission from my friends, my family, my job, and my culture as a whole to be a complete mess after going through a painful experience. I can't imagine what it must feel like over a lifetime of having people trample on your vulnerabilities and hate you when you are "weak". That must be excruciatingly painful, and I'm very sorry so many men have grown up with this experience. I think if this had been my experience, I would feel very angry and resentful because I had been robbed of a part of my humanity.
I'd like to ask the men who have wrestled with this, do you deal with anger? and how do you deal with the anger? (I also want to recognize that this is a vulnerable question and in light of this entire thread, I understand if you don't think the CC forum is a safe place to share).
Being angry over not having a part of my humanity is like trying to explain what the color blue looks like to a blind person. I'm not angry because I don't know what I'm missing.
I just hate myself for being dumb enough to be betrayed so many times. I don't really want to live in this world anymore, but unfortunately I'm imprisoned here by the people who would suffer if I left them behind.
Never really had anyone to go to when I'm at my lowest ever (some people shouldn't have kids), so I just rely on myself and the constant fact that time will keep ticking.
Some GFs of the past would listen to some, but most wanted an emotionally stable rock, not a dude not knowing what he was doing.
Shit is tough, but honestly, I'd rather wallow alone in my misery instead of opening up to someone (a GF) then having her use my weakest points in an argument later on. It's easier to just deal with my shit, instead of approaching a friend ill equipped with the expertise to just hear me out.
As for dealing with anger @MxSmith, when I was a teenager I would be filled with rage. Now that I have been smoking pot for nearly two decades, and due to my profession, I realized there is absolutely nothing to be angry about. Someone cut me off? Oh, they must have to take a shit. Co-worker got snippy at me? Well it really is fucking busy. Life isn't going how I planned? It will be alright, it will be over soon enough.
Nothing really worth getting angry over at this point in my life, though I can see how certain circumstances should bring out the worst of people.
I have so many friends, but no one that actively listens to me. I went out for drinks with someone yesterday for the first time who spent the entire time talking and venting but never even asked what I thought or felt. I'm sure I made them feel great because they wanted to do it again.
This is a pretty common occurrence for me. It really makes me question whether or not any part of me has any value, or if I'm simply just an object that exists simply to make people feel better about themselves. I've heard more about women having this problem than men though so I dunno if this is strictly a guy thing but I have to wonder what I'm doing wrong at this point.
Talking about my feelings on my own accord is something I rarely ever do anymore. It usually results in the other person trying to "solve" what I'm feeling or dismissing them rather than them listening to me.
@Ripley54566 I feel the same. It seems like nobody actually cares about men’s mental health until there’s either a catastrophe from some unhinged guy or the system we’ve erected shows down. Other than that, we’re whipped like rented mules because a tiny minority of men have high positions of power.
I can't see how men's health is related to an act of terrorism- that's related to cult-like behavior, some manifesto about society's ills, and glorification and romanticization of a single act of violence...sometimes while a secret online community cheers on.
I enjoy the discussion about men's wellbeing, but making a loose connection of it to crime and terrorism is where the buck stops for me. Cheers.
Men’s mental health is the scapegoat by politicians literally every time there is a mass shooting in the United States.
Agree to disagree. Those folks are highly delusional - many of them come from affluent or highly supportive backgrounds. I'm all for more mental health facilities and social awareness and more tools - but thats not what pushes extreme violence imo.
@zerocantaloupe it depends what kinds of mass shootings. Most get no national media coverage. A common definition of a mass shooting is four or more people shot at in the same setting over a brief time period. These happen just about every day on streets in different cities across the country. Most of these are gang and drug related.The shootings that get coverage are schools or shopping centers or other public places, usually by a lone disgruntled young male. These shooters usually have mental health issues. However, most of the coverage in these shootings is focused on guns and gun control rather than mental health.
In all fairness, I'm trying to figure out when I've ever been at my lowest. Yeah, the pandemic came close. But my friends and I didn't really need to talk about it, we all knew it sucked. Talking just made it worse. The occasional game night with one or two friends helped when there wasn't a cerfew.
Is dumping all your shit on one person really such a good way to deal with your problems though? I'd hate to be the friend people complain to.
Men generally value strength and dislike having to admit weakness and that they need help. So when they are low, asking for help makes them feel even more pathetic. Men don’t even like asking for directions let alone help with depression or whatever. The older you are, the more you probably feel this way as this was more ingrained in men in the past than it is now. John Wayne (the character) never asked for help or admitted weakness.
Men will get some comfort in the cultivation of the feeling of grievance itself. It’s like the depression itself becomes a friend or a drug. That can also lead to drinking and other abusive behavior. In some extremes it can lead to extreme acts like violence, terrorism, joining hateful groups etc.
There is a great documentary called White Right: Meeting the Enemy that I highly recommend. It’s about a Muslim woman that, with saintlike patience, goes to talk to a bunch of white supremacists to learn why they hate. Most of them seem to have an epiphany of sorts by the end because of how wonderfully understanding she is and how she doesn’t fit their stereotypes. It shows a real path forward for reaching these people and changing their minds.
An important point is that it shows how men end up that way. They are typically abused or abandoned and no one was there to help them at a critical juncture on their life. So they created a grievance, cultivated that grievance and eventually found a group of others to help them redirect their anger at some scapegoat groups.
It’s a great piece for understanding extreme racism but also just a great way to understand toxic male behavior in general. It’s really the same things at the heart of misogyny, school shootings, terrorism etc. Men, have a harder time getting help because they don’t seek it out. It has to find them somehow. It practically has to hunt them down.
I’m not sure exactly what the solution is. I think we clearly should teach boys when they are young to ask for help and not always try to tough it out. We should probably be more proactive at reaching out to men who appears depressed. Usually all it takes is a question. “How are you feeling?” Men are surprisingly willing to admit their feelings and receive help as long as you start the process. They just won’t initiate it easily.
@snugbuddy Gang related violence does not comprise as a mass shooting - first it would require a single or a couple gunmen to open fire in a public setting. It's usually created by some kind of turf or property or resource battle...poverty and greed breeds violence (enclosed space, crowded conditions, limited opportunities, low education, etc. - this is as true in the concentration camps in the Holocaust , the barrio in Mexico, the poor strip of Middle America primarily surviving on welfare, or the projects in the major cities).
Mass shootings are a type of terrorism and is classified by the FBI as a terrorist event. We are currently at about 3-4x week, amd only the big ones are reported on - it was 2x month from the early 2000s until about 2015 and it started to become once a week and increased from there. Scary stuff.
Also, another difference between gang violence and mass shootings are that mass shooters are oftentimes more affluent...they have guns, they have vehicles, they have money, but yet they're still angry. Most folks in poor areas don't have or can't afford that type of artillery and transportation - they're literally fighting to survive.
Whether or not men’s mental health is a true causal factor for mass shootings is irrelevant. The point is that it’s a platitude politicians throw around as a scapegoat, and nobody actually cares about men’s mental health any more than they have to in order to keep the power and gas going.
Once I met a teacher and asked her what the most surprising part of her job was. She said it was the percentage of kids on antidepressants and medications, which she had to manage whenever they went on field trips. Indeed something like 8.4% of U.S. men and 17.7% of women are on antidepressants, but it's not just adults—also 5.3% of boys and 10.2% of girls aged 13-19. There is a huge mental health crisis going on and people are jumping on medication which can have nasty side effects on withdrawal (not even considering anti-psychotics which are apparently far worse).
@MxSmith
I've had permission from my friends, my family, my job, and my culture as a whole to be a complete mess after going through a painful experience.
I've definitely had times when I wasn't willing to show weakness that way, even though I should. I've also had times when I tried to do that, only to be met with essentially "you are a man, figure it out" from others, including the people closest in my life. I've definitely had times when I should have seen a therapist or counselor, in retrospect, but didn't. I wish it was easier to find that permission aspect.
I can't imagine what it must feel like over a lifetime of having people trample on your vulnerabilities and hate you when you are "weak".
We toughen up mentally real quick, or at least I did. The key seemed to be keeping a safe distance and not making it "fun" for others to mess with you, especially not showing hurt or fear or vulnerability. I also now make a point of trying to actively figure out whether people are trustworthy, which I've found is a key skill in the workplace as well.
Here's an interesting story from a trans man who experienced both emotional worlds: https://imgur.com/PMUsCJR
Simply put, yes. Everyone in my work and personal lives seems to have the expectation that I’ll not only be UP at all times but also that I’ll be available to meet their needs at a moment’s notice. In sum, this is a large number of essentially one-way/non-reciprocal relationships, and there have been consequences nearly every time I’ve sought reciprocity—even here with professionals. I can only speak for myself, naturally, but that experience doesn’t have to be repeated too many times before one essentially feels trained to be self-contained and to avoid sharing problems with others.
Absolutely true…thanks for sharing this video
I have no one to talk to. I have zero friends and I have no one to cry or vent to when I’m at my lowest. I have spiraled so low so many times I wanted it all to stop so badly I considered unspeakable things. I can say no one cares in that sense as well. I can’t with my children, I can’t with my mother or my sister nor can I with my clients.
It is what it is. When I’m depressed I’m perceived by others as a million other things. In a “mood” or maybe they ask if it’s “that time of the month” or just seen as being neurotic or exaggerating. I have tried help lines they are the worst, usually an automatic message comes up and says the wait time is 20 minutes 🤣. It’s horrible.
I’m handling it better now or trying to, so no one rush to try to save me. This is my reality and it’s on topic so I thought I’d share.
I allow myself to feel the negative emotions then tell myself to push past it and work towards a better future any that’s going wrong in my life is temporary.
It definitely isn’t just men and women have their own stereotypes they have to deal with but it also has to do with your circle.
If you have friends that would poke fun at you for being vulnerable well then I’m happy to be without, because that causes more harm than good. I wouldn’t be friends with such a person. That’s why I don’t have any friends, I need special, understanding and loyal people in my life.
@littleBlackbird So glad you are pushing past the negativity and moving forward. Best wishes
@Btown Thank you 😊
I have friends I can turn to, like my best friend for example or family and also God or Jesus. I think in this highly secular world people have been turned away from believing in a higher power. It’s gotten many people through tough times. So try praying or reading the Bible or even seeking out the clergy, even if you don’t attend a house of worship. There are also hotlines for people if they are indeed depressed. There are always people to lend a kind ear. Hopefully if you don’t have one now you can build a relationship or friendship that can indeed turn into one which you can give them a call.