Men...is this your reality?

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  • Huh.

    I've always been open and vulnerable to everyone without fear of being who I was and there hasn't been a single person in my life that hasn't just let me talk. ... There hasn't been a single soul that has ever entered my life that didn't allow me to be who I am.

    And somehow this is also true:

    I grew up in a very abusive household physically and mentally. ... Then my mom divorced my dad and married a man that told me, and this is verbatim, 'you ain't shit and you're never going to be shit." ... [My dad] blamed me and my sisters for not putting enough effort in to having a relationship with him.

    Amazing abusers, who let you talk and allow you to be who you are!

    Fascinating abuse, that doesn't leave you believing your feelings are unimportant, that doesn't teach you the only person you can depend on is yourself, that doesn't leave you believing who you are is garbage and so you'd better be someone else if you ever want to be loved.

    Or maybe it's some kind of internal miracle—something that allows a literal child with no experience to counter what he's told to counter it anyway. (I could have used that miracle.)

    Ah, who knows....

  • @Saysoh ~ My POV isn't self victimization and I don't believe the othets here or in that video are in that mindset either. The fact is there are a lot of us who were reaised to not burden others, to get over it, suck it up, let it go, etc.

    Hearing those messages from the ones who are supposed to be there to nurture you and protect you, and in many cases while laying hands on you for/when bring vulnerable, you learn to stuff that shit down and keep things to yourself. Toxic? Yes. True? Yes. An example of victimizing oneself? No.

    Also, @CuddleDuncan ~ glad your post was helpful for one, but using inflated examples of egregious treatment isn't necessary to make a point, and for others may result in triggering their ptsd. If you want to convey empathy, put "I've seen other's post things like ___" or, "My understanding from other's is ____" and avoid speaking from a place that sounds authoritative but isn't actually your history/story to tell.

  • "Everyone deserves compassion until they do something that warrants it to be taken away." I put this in my profile because I believe it with my whole heart. Diverse experiences lean into diverse opinions, yet weird stigmas society likes to place on us can also have some odd affects on the psyche as well. This terrible trap that people fall into, with the notion the level of empathy you recieve can be measured by things like gender, looks, or even abuse, as if abuse is some kind of competition that should be measured. That just seems wrong to me.

    No one can define what you're worth. Only you can, and convincing yourself of that can be the hardest thing in the world. Everyone in this thread came here for a reason, so I'm here to tell you that you deserve compassion. YOU, the one reading this, deserves compassion.

  • @Shake49 ~ Thank you. To you too!! 🫂💓

  • [Deleted User]Saysoh (deleted user)

    @DaringSprinter

    I never spoke with my Dad, Stepdad or my Mom about it. I made it pretty clear to myself that I could build a life of love and trust without them. Maybe that is a miracle as you put it or maybe I just allowed myself to grow from that point in my life and work through the discomfort of self. Maybe I am an anomoly.

  • @OhioMike 💯. Will be interesting to hear the response.

  • edited May 2022

    @Saysoh: Oh, I must've misunderstood. You said you've always been open and vulnerable to everyone, and that there hasn't been a single soul that has ever entered your life that didn't allow you to be who you are, and I just assumed your dad, stepdad, and mom were people who existed in your life.

    I'm healing too—now that I'm an adult, and free. But yeah I've got a head full of garbage to deal with, and yeah some of that garbage makes it hard to reach out and trust. I'm not about to call anybody still buried in stuff like that "self-victimizing." It's a bad place to be, and hard to get out of.

  • Additionally, I don't believe that someone who is compeled to mega dose once or twice a year to get it all out/reset is actually sharing beyond the surface with the people in their lives. If they were, their troubles wouldn't be packed so tight they could only find releif through extreme self induced cathartic events. IMO

  • [Deleted User]Saysoh (deleted user)
    edited May 2022

    "Additionally, I don't believe that someone who is compeled to mega dose once or twice a year to get it all out/reset is actually sharing beyond the surface with the people in their lives. If they were, their troubles wouldn't be packed so tight they could only find releif through extreme self induced cathartic events. IMO"

    This is very passive-aggressive. You're taking context I've provided and using it against me for people that don't know the context. Yes, I take high doses of shrooms twice a year for a reset. However, in this statement, you're assuming I'm resetting from my past, but I'm not. I have grown exponentially since those days and as people move forward, different problems surface. Because of my past, I do put things in a box and convince myself i'll just deal with them later and then I force myself to deal with them through psychedelics.

    @DaringSprinter Make no mistake, my Mom was a huge part of my life and my entire family. We just chose not to talk about our experience with her or blame her. We decided she has been through enough. I mean, when she told my dad she wanted a divorce, he held a .357 to her head whislt slamming her head into kitchen cabinets as I watched, at 12, hidden on the top of the staircase.

    Again, I'm just stating that being a man doesn't put yourself in quicksand when you want to talk about real shit. I talked about grief last night and had a cry with a friend because she lost her brother recently to alcohol and I shared my experience with grief about my mom's death. So to say there aren't people for men to talk to, I say it's the people you surround yourself with, but that's just my experience.

    And as far as the high dose thing @quixotic_life, it's planned for the 14th of this month. MDMA, psilocybin, Ketamine and all starting to be used for PTSD and other mental health issues. It's better to be forced into self-awareness than being numbed by xanax, wellbutrin, prozac, IMO.

  • I think this thread got taken wayyy outta context!

    @RaveHeart I enjoyed reading your reply, you’re forever keeping it 💯 the very few times you participate… And yes I agree with you that it isn’t the fact that we don’t have people to open up to, it is just that we’re not expected to be vulnerable, that or we’ve been conditioned to think or feel that way.

  • Definitely me. Like many of us I have people to talk to but I don't want to bother anyone with my feelings knowing they have their lives and issues too. I could always talk to my mom but after her passing 7 years ago I've bottled most everything inside and just press on as best I can.

  • @Saysoh ~ a fair assesment. I was being hella passive aggressive and I did draw conclusions I'd based on your prior posts in other threads. I'm not always my best self and I'm sorry for doing that publicly. I'll leave it up though so your reply, and this, make some contextual sense.

    Just an FYI since the ask in this thread is realated to mental health, some of need pharmaceutical meds to get through the rewiring of our brains process, let alone to get out of bed. All the best on your 'trip' and hope it works even better for you than my daily Rx regimen works for me. ✌️

  • Um ……… its best if I don’t say anything 😐

    but I have to 😌

  • @OhioMike, I just can't let this go unchecked in a thread about men's mental health.

    Ahem , sooo….. @CuddleDuncan 🧐: Why are you so unkind?

    He's one of the kindest men here! You may not like the way he responded to something, but this is way out of bounds.

    Your examples on these threads points to a person who sees things only one way … the cuddleduncan way! You have little empathy towards your fellow posters AND probably the people you actually meet

    What?! @CuddleDuncan has always shown a high level of emotionally intelligence and he is in no way lacking in empathy.

    You like to use “straw arguments “ to make your points instead of discussing the issue itself ! I’ve seen you dismiss good parenting skills as just being lucky! You dislike women by stating that they are intolerant of mens feelings!

    @CuddleDuncan is the last man here who should be accused of disliking women. This is CRAZY talk and frankly I'm shocked that no one has challenged you on this.

    You favor liking to pretend that a poster says something then argue about that ! So besides let’s say old people, pets , and babies… what else do you dislike ?

    Where in the world did you get that he doesn't like pets and babies??? This is so over the top that now I'm wondering if you're joking. If you are, I don't find it funny. If you're being serious, kindly go after the truly problematic men on this site and leave the good ones alone.

  • @Cuddle_RN is one of the biggest sweethearts on the forums & I always see it in her words & writing … with that said @OhioMike i agree with everything you said.

  • First off, a grateful shout-out to the men (and women!) who have responded to this thread privately in PM, to share their thoughts and experiences in a less public way. You guys are amazing!

    @OhioMike It sounds like you raised your sons right, if they can talk to you. Given the responses here, it doesn't sound like most had a father like you.

    @Zundar Being able to only talk about practical problems also sounds like the unfortunate norm. I also could not share emotional struggles with my parents. It's not selfish to share your struggles with your friends. I loved what you had to say about changing the culture, I think you're spot on.

    @CuddlesByDeep What you said about men being open in a group session but not outside of it sounds legit. It's as if it's acceptable in that environment, but then "back to reality".
    You also posted: "most men I know in my proximity (colleagues, neighbors, activity buddies, etc) just don't have the skills. Not through any fault of their own, not because they don't care, but because they just never were taught them."
    I totally agree, here, it's not that men aren't supportive of men because they don't want to be or there's some gender-wide lack of care...it's more a cultural lack of raising them to know how to do this.
    You posted: "it's a lot easier for them to try to help by simply "fixing" the problem temporarily"
    I do this, as well, especially with my mom. Due to always being used as her shoulder to cry on, I finally reached my limit a few years ago and don't have the kind of empathy toward her that I used to. I approach her struggles from a more clinical perspective, now, and just try to fix it, rather than give her a compassionate, listening ear. In her case, she gave up the right for that, long ago.

    @achetocuddle It sounds like you share in this "power through it alone" mentality, even though you're a girl. As a girl, I was also raised that way. I was 14 before I let a single tear slip in front of my family, since a child. After that there was a break until I was in my mid-20's, and for that, I was totally blasted with dismissal and not taken seriously, even though I was hyperventilating from the pent-up emotion.
    You posted: "maybe my own thinking and notions seeming more masculine (to me) is due to my dad doing what dads so often do to their sons (discounting their emotions)."
    I was in a similar boat, just with my mom. My dad never talked to me, so that didn't even factor in.
    I'm so glad you liked the thread idea!
    You posted: "I like all this openness from the guys."
    Indeed. Thank you to all of you for being open.

    @entwine I agree that sometimes it isn't that people don't care, it's that people believe so deeply that they shouldn't/can't share, regardless. In fact, the friend who shared the original video with me is one of those people. He'll tell me he's not doing okay, but then he'll immediately shut himself down, say he's fine and it doesn't matter, and he won't let me be there for him. So even though I'm there, I can't help because he's been too well-trained not to allow anyone in.
    You also posted, "I need to be better about giving the people the chance to reject me themselves instead of choosing to have them reject me myself."
    I was this way for so long, and still struggle with it. I expect rejection, and sometimes the wait is so scary, it's easier to just make the decision for them, or push them to do it.
    I'm glad the thread made you look inward!

    ~ Sunset Snuggles

  • @PeopleLikeUs I agree we can all make a difference, here!

    @jaswbrown It made me cry, as well. Thank you for being vulnerable enough to say so! I'm so glad that you had someone there who responded properly and encouraged you to get this professionally dealt with! It sounds like this not only made a big difference in your life, but you in turn had a domino effect of it helping others. So happy to hear!
    You posted: "My message to other Men (anyone, really): It takes Strength to ask for help. Be Strong and ask."
    Well said!
    You posted: "the mentality that we have to have 'all our ducks in a row' at all times, and that "seeking help is a sign of weakness" harms ALL OF US... The Mental Health stigma needs to stop."
    Totally agree!

    @CuddleDuncan posted: "I do have people to call and I do call them and they are sympathetic. It's difficult though, because not calling is so ingrained."
    I deal with that, too. When I'm down, my instinct is to curl up alone and tell people, "No one can help me." Depression does that to you, regardless of your gender.
    "If you tell a woman that you are low you risk being shouted at or otherwise criticised. If you want a wife or girlfriend who is certain to be supportive in that circumstance you're aiming very high indeed. It's not at all rare for women to be highly intolerant of men showing emotion, particularly low emotion."
    This is hard for me to envision because I'm the opposite way. I wanted to grab every guy in this video and squeeze him and keep him safe. I've never felt the urge to yell at or belittle any man for expressing negative or low emotions. It honestly makes me fall in love with them a little bit, when they express hurt. My maternal instinct kicks in and all I want to do is make them feel loved and safe.
    I feel your first response to Saysoh could have used a trigger warning, just throwing that out there.

    @JoyfulHeart So thrilled to hear this site has been a positive change in your life!

    @sunnysideup posted: "Maybe what this video is insinuating on is a pressure on men to not show emotion (well unless it’s agression/on the toxic side of being assertive)"
    I believe so, yes.
    You posted: "If I can add, most of the pressure I feel to be super confident, assertive etc comes from women, not men."
    Thank you for sharing this. Ladies, can we all be on-guard for this?
    You posted: "I’ve encountered many women that have treated me like absolute dogshit because I had low self esteem and didn’t know how to set boundaries."
    Unfortunately, lack of boundaries can draw the abusers like flies. I'm terribly sorry to hear this has happened to you. Any woman, and anyone, who senses someone has low self-esteem should do their utmost to lift you up, not tear you down. You can PM me anytime, if you like.

    @CSnMUS87 posted: "I feel like I would be bothering them with my insignificant problems when I know they have a lot of their own to worry about."
    Everyone has problems to worry about; this doesn't mean we don't care about yours, or don't want to be there for you, too! I feel hurt and disappointed when I find that a friend has been pretending to be okay when they weren't. Please do share!

    ~ Sunset Snuggles

  • @houdini2019 posted: "I've had people in my life (mostly women) who I could share that vulnerability to but it's always a risk, unless it's in therapy."
    Interesting perspective; this is probably why I don't share things with family, but share freely with strangers and counselors.

    @pmvines posted: "Nobody knows when I am at my lowest. The space between my ears can take me to some dark places. Pitch black somerimes. But nobody knows because I choose to not share this ."
    This is just so tragic to me. I understand you're claiming responsibility by choosing this, but I don't think we should have to make such choices, and if we were close, I wouldn't want you to make that choice. I would always want to be there or help any way I could. It's okay to have demons. I have demons, too.

    @GoodRightHook I know you deleted your account, which I was very sad to see, but I'm hoping you come back, so I'm responding anyway.
    You posted: "With my lowest? No one. ... But my darkest thoughts, my truly despairing places... It is my duty to protect others from those things, not inflict them."
    This really touched me and made my heart ache. Again, I would always want a friend to be able to tell me about these things. I can't make it better, but I can keep you from being alone. That's all that helps me, when I'm down...no one can fix it, but they can choose not to abandon me. They can choose to sit with me through it.
    You posted: "And, as to emotional vulnerability, I have yet to share it with anyone and not have it later used against me. Later might mean within seconds of that sharing, or months later. But every single time I have regretted sharing my fears, or my weariness, or simply the day to day hurt and bewilderment we all feel."
    Also so heartbreaking to hear... Big hugs going out to you, and I do hope you return to the site.

    @FunCartel posted: "I think that kind of loneliness exists, but it is a gross generalization based off a YouTube video"
    It is a generalization to apply this to only men, for sure. But as we've seen in this thread, sadly, it seems to be true the majority of the time, and includes the women here, as well.

    @wrench posted: "most men dont have people to call and say hey im feeling like crap lets hang out."
    This thread would imply you are correct. So let's all be that friend.

    ~ Sunset Snuggles

  • @GentleMan1111 I'm so happy that you are not currently in this situation! And hey, if you get jumped on, I'll jump on their back like a rabid monkey and bite them for you, 'kay? I got you.

    @Ricky43 Thank you for sharing. As I've said, you can message me (and hopefully most of the guys in this thread), anytime.

    @DaringSprinter posted: "since my earliest years it's never occurred to me that calling another human might be an option when I'm down."
    I was in this exact position for the first half of my life. My parents forced us to put on a "happy little family" front to everyone, and as a teenager and into my 20's, I literally had no concept of how to express my depression or pain to anyone. It wasn't that I chose not to talk about it. It's that I honestly couldn't begin to imagine how. I wonder if this is how a lot of people on this thread feel.
    You posted: "sometimes you could really use some kind of response."
    Amen. I hate talking to a wall.
    You posted (sarcastically): ""There's nothing me and God can't handle.""
    Right? If this were true, suicide wouldn't be a thing. This one really grinds my gears, too.
    So glad you have someone you can be yourself with.
    I agree that Saysoh's statements seemed contradictory.

    @RaveHeart Your story is exactly what's wrong with this culture and I'm so sorry you grew up in such an extreme version of what we're talking about, here.
    You posted: "I try to be the most understanding, comforting, thoughtful, and compassionate person I can be to any friend of mine who needs it, but I just can't bring myself to be vulnerable to most of them."
    Heartbreaking. As said, my PM box is always open.
    You posted: "I hadn't been allowed to be that vulnerable, that soft, and that small to anyone in a very long time"
    This makes me want to just hold anyone at all who feels like this until they can't cry anymore. ;(

    @Kiroshi posted: "I try to be there for my friends, so they don't feel how I do"
    I've heard this countless times from people with depression. They tend to be the sweetest, most caring people in the world, because they don't want anyone else to live with the torture they experience.

    @pianomann I'm so glad you have a healthy and supportive church family where you can be open! I wish all churches were like that. Sadly, some of the most cruel things my family has experienced were out of the mouths of churchgoers...even pastors. But as you know, I don't hold it against all Christians.

    @quixotic_life posted: "I'm not a guy, but that's my answer too... Nobody."
    You're far too sweet for this to be the case, I demand you reach out at once! hugs You deserve care and support, too.
    You posted: "Hearing those messages from the ones who are supposed to be there to nurture you and protect you, and in many cases while laying hands on you for/when bring vulnerable, you learn to stuff that shit down and keep things to yourself. Toxic? Yes. True? Yes."
    Oh man, I used to get spanked or hit with the belt, immediately followed by, "I'm doing this because I love you." Just...yeah.

    @CuddleForDID posted: "I spent a lot of time helping others whenever, and however I can but when I need it, everyone's busy, sorry."
    I've heard this story so many times and it's just wrong, I'm so sorry you've experienced this.
    You posted: "Is it weird that I'm looking for comfort from random strangers on the internet rather than close family or friends?"
    I do this, too. I am much more apt to share my deepest pain and secrets with a stranger online, than with my family. But of course, there's reasons for that.
    You posted: "Any time anyone SEEMS to care I wander if they have ulterior motives because the idea of anyone actually caring about me is such a foreign concept"
    I feel this way, too, and did especially when in my 20's. I believed that anyone who acted like they cared for me was either lying, or just hadn't yet discovered that I was worthless.
    And by the way... hugs you tight I think you're taking on too much.

    ~ Sunset Snuggles

  • @Moxytocin posted: "who don't even know how they like their own damn eggs"
    ahaha I got you, girl! And I do agree, this is definitely not just men, as the female posters on this thread have also proven.

    @Carl2714 I'm glad you also have a men's group that allows you to be open; this seems to be a theme.

    @elfdog21 That is ironic, but I'm glad you have someone! My PM is always open.

    @TheZeroEffect I care.

    @Warmth_Seeker I do, too. Emotionally eating HELPS, dang it...it really does. I wish it didn't.

    @Saysoh The video could be created for content...that's entirely possible. But the experiences of the people right here in this thread? I believe them.
    You posted: "if you have these type of people in your life and using the excuse, "I'm a guy, nobody listens," the people in your life are not the problem."
    That is fully true. The people aren't the problem, the culture that raises men to never show vulnerability is the problem. That's what a lot of us are saying...that even if people care, sometimes we can't bring ourselves to open up, because people are taught not to.
    I was very sorry to read about your childhood experiences.

    @justmehere I'm so glad you have a buddy you can be open with! Also, you have a beautiful smile.

    @KozyKim I love that you are providing that safe space. Big hugs!

    @Sariaz I'm sorry you feel it's better to hold things in. You can always talk to me!

    @Shake49 posted: "No one can define what you're worth. Only you can, and convincing yourself of that can be the hardest thing in the world."
    Oi, tell me about it.
    You posted: "Everyone in this thread came here for a reason, so I'm here to tell you that you deserve compassion. YOU, the one reading this, deserves compassion."
    Thank you. And bravo! hugs

    @cuddles_ndream posted: "I think this thread got taken wayyy outta context!"
    Yes, I've come to realize this is the norm, but at least it's stressing me out less, the more I'm exposed to it.

    @robroo You can always talk to me. Very sorry to hear about your mom.

    Thank you everyone, for participating in this discussion.

    ~ Sunset Snuggles

  • @SunsetSnuggles Just the fact that you took the time to respond to most everyone’s post shows how much you put your words into actions and really care. 👏👏

  • @blisscuddles You are too sweet, thank you! big hugs

    I know my response was super late coming; I don't mean to abandon threads, I just get overwhelmed by the volume of responses, and take awhile to be able to face getting back to everyone. :#

    ~ Sunset Snuggles

  • @SunsetSnuggles Thank you very much for sharing this much need to be discussed topic. Yes, since childhood I have heard and or experienced this/other similar messages of toxic masculinity from society (such as boys/men don't cry, don't talk about your problems, nobody cares, the answer to any problem is just to "toughen up"). How do I deal with it? I do identify as a masculine man but also value caring/being there for others when appropriate (especially those going through hard times). Being there consists of listening to others experiences good or not good, offering hugs for support when wanted, being a shoulder to cry on, share similar experiences (if needed) and what I used to effectively deal with many situations/etc. I consider myself a survivor and not a victim. Yes life happens to all of us the good and the bad but use experiences to encourage/assist others. I will share life experiences (but chose to pick people I know can relate, be honest, realistic but not overly judgmental). I have some family and close friends that are supportive of me, in good and not so good times. Thank you once again!

  • @SuperManCuddles My pleasure! I really started it because I was so busted up by what I saw. :anguished: Thank you for your insight on what to do about it, not just generally, but yourself. Bravo!

    ~ Sunset Snuggles

  • @SunsetSnuggles blimey! That's the most comprehensive reply I've ever seen!

    @robroo I totally get what you mean. I've had that problem in the past: there was actually somebody I could talk to, but I didn't because I thought I shouldn't, or didn't want to bother them, or I thought the time was never right, or something. And when you add on the intrinsic difficulty of talking about yourself under any circumstances, it's functionally impossible to talk to them. Frankly, sometimes it's nearly impossible to recognise that you could.

    @Saysoh @DaringSprinter @quixotic_life I'll come back to you. Too much has happened in this thread in the five minutes I was away to answer it all at once.

    @quixotic_life I take your point about extreme examples, you're quite right.

    @Cuddle_RN that's extremely kind of you, thank you. I really appreciate that.

    @OhioMike a post like that is pretty out of character for you. Sounds like you are really upset with me. Well actually it sounds like you're upset with somebody else because your comments didn't sound like me at all. ... yeah, CuddleDuncan ... you know, the guy who doesn't like women .... The suggestion that I "dismiss good parenting skills as just being lucky" is especially puzzling since I commented in this very thread how lucky your sons were: they have clearly had the benefit of parenting done the way it should be. If all children had dads as good as you we wouldn't have this thread in the first place.

    It is true that I criticised your initial response to the video. I stand by the sentiment, although perhaps I could have worded it better. I do feel very strongly about people not being believed or taken seriously.

    If and when you feel like it I would appreciate a PM from you so we can sort this out.

  • edited May 2022

    @CuddleDuncan For transparency I doubled check with site to make sure and they responded that you are like any other ordinary member here . You are in no position or special relationship within the CC team
    Also I personally flagged this thread multiple times over two days to get mods/admin input After two days of waiting the response today was let the community sort it out So here we are on forums . Not on PM
    Your views and opinions aren’t the only views and opinions on here . You use “inflated examples “ to make your points “
    You “speak from a place that sounds authoritative but isn’t your history/ story to tell” (some posters have much better comments then me )
    And actually my comments were intended to sound EXACTLY like you so YOU could see how it felt from someone else
    Just please think about how you come across on these forums.
    Oh and in a personal note .. parents who are hard working, sacrificing, loving, caring , and understanding among many other traits don’t appreciate other people calling their children lucky. It diminishes good parenting and being a good parent well that’s f’n hard ! F’n hard!!

    So the community here can input . Some already have if you noticed. People obviously now know where I am on how you respond to members here I do wish you the best

    Oh and one other thing I exaggerated or inflated about you , was you also hate old people, pets , and babies I don’t believe that you do , I’m just using the style that you use to our posters here back at you 👍 so hopefully you realize that as you post here

  • This is the typical answer for many, if not most, men. We are raised to focus on our children, our wife, then our self. Other than sports teams, military, or high stress jobs (1st responders, etc), we are not encouraged to build bonds with our peers. We are told to "man up".

    Even when we do share with others, the response is usually to offer advise to solve the problem. In some cases, our friends will even help us solve the problem. But ... some problems cannot be solved, or take a long time. We end up struggling alone.

  • @SunsetSnuggles. Wow just wow you’re so amazing. Thank you for bringing up the most thoughtful questions. You’re such a positive person. I think you need to cuddle the whole world one ata time. God bless you🤗💛

  • @SunsetSnuggles @KozyKim Thank you very much! I agree!

  • edited May 2022

    @OhioMike

    To avoid derailing the thread ....

    You are in no position or special relationship within the CC team

    Somebody suggested something like this the other day. It's a really weird notion, not least because I have been reprimanded by the moderating team (and rightly so) on a number of occasions. Why on earth do you think I have some kind of special relationship?

    parents who are hard working, sacrificing, loving, caring , and understanding among many other traits don’t appreciate other people calling their children lucky.

    But your children are lucky. They are lucky to have such a great dad. They didn't choose you. They didn't do anything to deserve you. They didn't earn you, or buy you. It was just the luck of the draw. Are you really suggesting that children with bad parents deserve such parents? Or to put it another way, if the parents you get isn't luck, what is it? I really don't understand what you're trying to say here.
    Making a success of a parent-child relationship isn't luck: I believe it's hard. I believe that because the people who've done it, like you, tell me so. But your children are fortunate to have a parent who is able (and willing) to do the work.

    You speak from a place that sounds authoritative

    OK ..... so show me where I'm wrong. There's very little I like more than being wrong. Chance to learn something.
    (As as aside, I went back over my posts in this thread. The very first thing I wrote was "I would guess that's the reality for a lot of men" which I wouldn't describe as being authoritive. My post to @Saysoh was a bit harsh ... but we've already established that.)

    Just please think about how you come across on these forums.

    I do. I get it wrong sometimes. (For example, see my comment to @quixotic life in my last post.) But when I joined this forum I made a conscious and deliberate decision to speak as openly and freely as I could. Not to self censor. I'm in a therapy group and the other group members complain relentlessly about a lack of genuineness on my part. It's unconscious obviously, but I do struggle to recognise feelings and turn them into words. For the last couple of years I have been trying to practice that as much as possible, in as many contexts as possible. Progess is somewhere between glacial and imaginery, and I suppose that in frustration I push it sometimes. We know that the veil of the internet encourages people to saying what they really think, and I'm trying to allow that to happen to me.

    But if you don't like my style, why don't you just ignore my posts? Why are you so upset?

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