@Melancholy Curious, how many times have you left your house in the past two months? If my going to a tennis court endangered people than how much innocent blood in on your hand? Cuz Im betting you have interacted with others on the outside during this crisis with your own amazingly selfishness. humm
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin. So by all means take precautions for yourself and others, but don't give up precious liberty in the process.
What is special, is that we have an opportunity to do something about it. Just like we have implemented tsunami warnings, and seasonal flu vaccination.
If an asteroid impact was predicted to kill millions of people, would we do nothing ?
@pmvines First off, thanks for your work, and as I have said before I have a lot of respect for you and I dont want our debate to be personal. Second as I have said, the population should respond to the virus and do what we can to mitigate it. I am washing more and not being as physical and have been home more. I belive the govt should give information and guidance and control borders including state borders to contain hot spots but they have no right to mandate personal behavior and mandate buisnesses to close. If people are educated about a risk and decide not to go to a store and it closes that is one thing but for the feds to tell someone to shut down but still pay your people is another. And the printing of trillions of dollars to pump in is not great. Remember the 20% inflation in the Jimmy Carter year? Another thing is there have been countless calamities that have been preported to kill us all and the globe one after another and once again I just dont see the big bad wolf here. Just a bad bug that will do what it does and life goes on. Be prepared, take precautions, do what we can do but shutting down life will not dent what this bug will eventually do. Then we will develope medicine for it and life will go on. If we allow it to.
@geoff1000 again with all due respect, You keep going to the absurd as defense.
Asteroid attack If an asteroid was about to attack then the govt would warn people in that area and say ya better get out. When a cat 5 comes knockin on our door here in Florida the state will warn and issue evacuation orders but it is your free choice to stay or leave. Just if you stay you know you are on your own till the end. When Mt St Hellens blew the govt warned but some stayed and died. So, Trump can say a big beautiful rock is coming and it will make a perfect crater in the ground so we think you need to get out now. In this country it would be your choice, leave or stay. At this point we dont have anything else to do. Maybe fire a nuke up at it.
Again for the umpteenth time, I am not saying do nothing, I am doing the govt suggestions, washing my hands and limiting the running around etc. But this has gotten way out of control.
And you tried to dodge my clear question. Why are these people special. We know the flu is coming every year and it infects millions and kills 38+ thousand every year. Why do we not shut down for them every year? Simple question
If we have to shut down to save covid 19 people why do we not do it for flu people? Are they less valuable? To me its that or we are over reacting now. Great for media ratings.
some people are already jumping to death due to isolation https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8139249/Man-64-jumps-death-16th-floor-luxury-Manhattan-apartment-building.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR01Tac1xrKhkola4Z6N1TXeuYZmf2dXY4QSQWmFbKdM7KMhCAi5OL7GJzw
@takestwo +++x100
@snuggleme123 People with flu show symptoms (and feel like crap) within 1-2 days, then stay at home usually, meaning they aren't out there spreading it around. They know they have it. But with an incubation period of up to 14-15 days (this virus)according to early data, people may not feel bad for days after contracting it , so they would be out and about if not asked to stay away from people.
@snuggleme123 The death toll from the 2004 Indonesia earthquake and tsunami was 227,898. If you are going to lie, at least be somewhat credible.
@FunCartel I ment to say about 250 thousand, in my head I was thinking quarter million and miss wrote it. I corrected it. Thanks for bringing it up even with the lie jab.
@AceofCuddles People with the flu are not out spreading it around? Have you ever been in a flu season it is the opposite of that. Does the regular flu fly in the air like birds and swoop down on the uninfected? No people infect others same as this. People have just lost their minds. Logic and reason are out the door. Scared sheep.
No dude, I'm saying that MOST people who have the flu stay in. Most people who have covid and know it, will be in. But there are a lot more people who have it and DON'T know it because of the incubation period. When you contract flu, you know it quickly, not so with covid and that is a huge difference.
@snuggleme123 If drink-driving killed only the driver, I think the law would be much more relaxed about it. It would be a fine, like the UK has for not wearing a seat-belt.
Social contact is very unlikely to cause Covid-19 deaths in those people, it is those who catch it second- or third-hand, that we are trying to protect. People are not choosing to put themselves at risk ( as e.g. Mt St Helens ), they are choosing to put others at risk.
If and when we have a cheap, quick, and reliable test of who has it ; we can give up the week of quarantine. If and when we determine that a recovered patient is immune and cannot transmit, and we can identify them ; they can go back to work and their normal lives.
The problem at the moment, is that there are too many unknowns to make an informed decision.
There is to many people in the world anyway!! We are overpopulated!! This is nature's or maybe man's way of killing us off! We as a species will eventually destroy us all!
It's not the number of people who will die that is the reason such draconiam measures are being taken. The problem is the potential massive burden on the heathcare system. This virus is much more contagious than previous strains of the flu and is much more likely to require medical intervention. Any medical intervention requires full body protection for the medical professionals involved. Hence the emphasis on the supply of masks, gowns and other protective supplies. The whole point of people isolating themselves is to forestall the rise in infections. The ultimate aim is to prevent the healthcare system being overwhelmed until a vaccine can be developed.
Getting used to the new work wear
@pmvines You look like a Peaky Blinder in quarantine! 😂
At least I still have a jaunty hat
Yup
I've been saying for three weeks now that COVID 19 will kill a million people just in the USA. It's now looking like that number is low. Now I'm looking at the data and I'm thinking we'll be at or near one million casualties in the USA by around April 17th.
The concerning thing about this is that cases lag preventative measures by 5 to 10 days, and fatalities seem to lag cases by 14 to 17 days on the exponential growth curve. Therefore, the death curve is likely to lag any preventative measures that are put in place by 3 to 4 weeks. April 17th is 3 and a half weeks away, we still have no nationwide preventative measures in place, and we're already inside the lag time that will take for us to get to a million casualties nationwide. At that point the only stop I see is getting to 80% infection, 10%-20% symptomatic rate for the infected, and (hopefully) a 5% fatality rate and not worse. (Unfortunately, our data is trending like Italy's, and they're coming up to a 10% fatality rate) With those statistics, with 330 million people in the USA, we're looking at 1.3 to 2.6 million fewer people in the USA because of this virus. That does not include those who are scarred or maimed for life from the ravages of this disease.
This is why I laugh at people worrying about a disease that kills thousands each year. Even 38 thousand. That's such a small number. With a warped view like that it's no wonder that you don't think going to a tennis court, an outside area where people can congregate, is an issue. Honestly, I've lived a good life, a full life. I'm ready to die.
Are you?
There are a number of factors at play. If shelter in place orders last more than 30 days you will also see an economic collapse. We just got word that my company, based out of Michigan, is shutting down until April 13th. That could be extended. All hourly employees were summarily laid off and directed to the unemployment office. I am salaried, so I am good...for now. One lady that is hourly I had to talk off the ledge this morning—single mom, two kids—expresses her frustrations and grief to me. She has no faith in the unemployment system being able to sustain the number of people heading its way because the health care system couldn’t sustain. She told me let me work or I will just off myself. I told her that does nothing for her kids, but she has a point. She said she would rather die on her feet working than sitting in a room scared. She is not going to kill herself for now and she does understand that working would ensure a lot of people get sick and would be irresponsible but she has lost faith in everything.
The systems we rely on—health care, social and economic—are only as good as the faith we put in them. Right now faith is running low in areas and it is only going to get worse.
@cabellye - Your assumptions are seriously flawed. The vast majority of people (95%) recover without serious repercussions and thus become immune. These people then have to be subtracted from the susceptible population. The USA has a long way to go to reach one million deaths. It's currently under 500, and the total world figure is under 25,000, probably under-reported but still fairly insignificant compared to deaths from other causes. By the way, what is this "scarring and maiming" that you attribute to Coronavirus?
@UKGuy Not being snarky here (surprise! I know, right? WHO IS THIS GUY?) but has it been scientifically determined that exposure and recovery grants a patient immunity? Last I've read, there has been no such determination and there is concern that - especially as the strain mutates - that people could actually catch it again.
If you've seen different, I'd love to read the links.
At 8.30 pm this evening, the British Prime Minister effectively closed the country down. Key workers, shopping for food and medicine, having a walk with your immediate household family ; otherwise stay at home.
No-one knows if this is necessary, or if it will be enough.
@pmvines That is a great hat
Thanks @AceCuddlerMike I have an absurd amount of head and foot wear
From this page:
Interesting (but not necessarily important) Questions and Answers about the Pandemic
The questions on that page are:
Why are people hoarding toilet paper? How does soap kill viruses? Now that I can’t go to bars, restaurants, and performances, what should I binge-watch on TV? What is “flattening the curve” and why does it help? What the heck did the UK just decide to do (“herd immunity”)? How did the Federal Reserve “inject” $1.5 trillion into the economy and where’s my share? What does the COVID-19 virus actually look like?
Edit: Just quoting the page, not giving an opinion or asking any of these questions!
@respectful Your share? You mean your contribution. It was in there somewhere. : )
Thanks for paying your taxes!
A coronavirus has spikes so it looks like a crown.
A virus is an oil bubble, so soaps make it fall apart.
Herd Immunity is like burning the bush so that a new fire doesn't have enough fuel to sustain combustion. Think of a nuclear bomb that is so old that most of its fissile material has decayed naturally, it no longer has critical mass. That only works if recovered people are immune.
Flattering the curve man's the N million people who will catch it, do so progressively, and healthcare systems can cope, instead of all at the same time.